Hello everyone, newbie here.
I want to make an art installation, wheras piezo-plates are used to pick up the sound from plastic planes, on which they are mounted on.
The signal needs to be amplified for every small touch to be audible, and until now i've been using mic-inputs from my audio interface which worked fine. Now on a bigger scale i want more active piezos and i really think arduino pre-amp modules would be the way to go.
The sheer option and my lack of experience working with everything arduino are overwhelming. Which one's should i consider and what should i look out for? Every feedback would be greatly appreciated!!
Best regards from Germany.
I want to make an art installation, wheras piezo-plates are used to pick up the sound from plastic planes, on which they are mounted on.
The signal needs to be amplified for every small touch to be audible, and until now i've been using mic-inputs from my audio interface which worked fine. Now on a bigger scale i want more active piezos and i really think arduino pre-amp modules would be the way to go.
The sheer option and my lack of experience working with everything arduino are overwhelming. Which one's should i consider and what should i look out for? Every feedback would be greatly appreciated!!
Best regards from Germany.
Can you point us to these "arduino pre-amp modules"? What is "my audio interface"
More detail will be needed to understand your requirements - how many sensors, how many speakers, what volume levels, ...
It sounds like you have audio signals, what role does an Arduino play in handling those signals? I worry there is xyproblem, so explain what you want to achieve, not how you think you can achieve it.
More detail will be needed to understand your requirements - how many sensors, how many speakers, what volume levels, ...
It sounds like you have audio signals, what role does an Arduino play in handling those signals? I worry there is xyproblem, so explain what you want to achieve, not how you think you can achieve it.
Hello Mark, Thanks for the answer.
Until now I had 10 Piezos installed, each was routed with 10m long 0,75mm cable to the mic-inputs of 3 audio interfaces and then through software (ableton for soundprocessing and touchdesigner for video output) to 2 x yamaha hs8 and two video projectors.
The volume levels of the individual signals were all over the place, and i'm not sure why this was. Depending on the audio interface & Input, there was significant ground level noise which resonated the sound of the power generator that supplied the whole setup.
The audio interfaces used was a motu M4, Steinberg ur44c and a behringer umc404hd, which were aggregated in mac's audio-midi-setup into a one virtual interface, which made input routing very confusing.
I want to bypass the audio-interfaces with a setup where the individual signals are boosted by pre-amps connected to an arduino, not by the audio-interface pre-amp. This makes upscaling easier, since i want more piezos in the future (I had hung close to 100 planes and only 10 were 'active') and will hopefully resolve my two main issues: 1) Ground noise by the generator and 2) Messy Input routing and different audio levels depending on the interface.
Here some of the pre-amp modules i was eyeballing.
https://www.reichelt.de/de/de/entwi...9ofhtoMLXkBs2vFMa2rstMf0ihAaAo8lEALw_wcB&&r=1
https://www.amazon.de/Leistungsverstärker-Verstärker-Endstufenmodul-VERPACKUNG-socialme-eu/dp/B07P8Z3MRY/ref=sr_1_2?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=NEN977U5U5AV&keywords=arduino+pre-amp&qid=1688509883&s=ce-de&sprefix=arduino+pre-amp,electronics,98&sr=1-2
https://www.amazon.de/DollaTek-Piez...16-ba51-3a2a948a6435&pd_rd_i=B081JP8HGP&psc=1
Until now I had 10 Piezos installed, each was routed with 10m long 0,75mm cable to the mic-inputs of 3 audio interfaces and then through software (ableton for soundprocessing and touchdesigner for video output) to 2 x yamaha hs8 and two video projectors.
The volume levels of the individual signals were all over the place, and i'm not sure why this was. Depending on the audio interface & Input, there was significant ground level noise which resonated the sound of the power generator that supplied the whole setup.
The audio interfaces used was a motu M4, Steinberg ur44c and a behringer umc404hd, which were aggregated in mac's audio-midi-setup into a one virtual interface, which made input routing very confusing.
I want to bypass the audio-interfaces with a setup where the individual signals are boosted by pre-amps connected to an arduino, not by the audio-interface pre-amp. This makes upscaling easier, since i want more piezos in the future (I had hung close to 100 planes and only 10 were 'active') and will hopefully resolve my two main issues: 1) Ground noise by the generator and 2) Messy Input routing and different audio levels depending on the interface.
Here some of the pre-amp modules i was eyeballing.
https://www.reichelt.de/de/de/entwi...9ofhtoMLXkBs2vFMa2rstMf0ihAaAo8lEALw_wcB&&r=1
https://www.amazon.de/Leistungsverstärker-Verstärker-Endstufenmodul-VERPACKUNG-socialme-eu/dp/B07P8Z3MRY/ref=sr_1_2?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=NEN977U5U5AV&keywords=arduino+pre-amp&qid=1688509883&s=ce-de&sprefix=arduino+pre-amp,electronics,98&sr=1-2
https://www.amazon.de/DollaTek-Piez...16-ba51-3a2a948a6435&pd_rd_i=B081JP8HGP&psc=1
I see gross impedance mismatching in your current setup, which may very well lead to inconsistent results.
Piezos require high impedance loads (or Preamp inputs) and not far away, bevause cabke capacitance whreaks havoc with their signals.
You need to build or get one high impedance preamp per Piezo , typical Piezo impedance being 1 MEGA Ohm (1M) or higher.
And those preamps must be close to Piezo elements, typically no more than 1 meter away.
While your mixer/audio module inputs are LOW impedance (typically from 1 to 10 kilo ohms, 1000 times smaller than needed) and at the far end of 10 meter cable; you are breaking all rules needed for good results )
None of those you suggest will do:first two are 2.5W power amplifiers, and third detects some piezo signal and has a ON-OFF output, to trigger a relay or something.
This one might do, input is a Piezo Transducer and output is "analog",it might mean it´ps some kind of "microphone preamplifier" whose audio output will kater be processed by Arduino or whatever.
If you don´t mind building a small board, on "universal" hobby type perfboard, I might suggest a simple Piezo Preamp, fed from a 9V battery, 1 of them can feed 10-20 preamps.
Piezos require high impedance loads (or Preamp inputs) and not far away, bevause cabke capacitance whreaks havoc with their signals.
You need to build or get one high impedance preamp per Piezo , typical Piezo impedance being 1 MEGA Ohm (1M) or higher.
And those preamps must be close to Piezo elements, typically no more than 1 meter away.
While your mixer/audio module inputs are LOW impedance (typically from 1 to 10 kilo ohms, 1000 times smaller than needed) and at the far end of 10 meter cable; you are breaking all rules needed for good results )
None of those you suggest will do:first two are 2.5W power amplifiers, and third detects some piezo signal and has a ON-OFF output, to trigger a relay or something.
This one might do, input is a Piezo Transducer and output is "analog",it might mean it´ps some kind of "microphone preamplifier" whose audio output will kater be processed by Arduino or whatever.
If you don´t mind building a small board, on "universal" hobby type perfboard, I might suggest a simple Piezo Preamp, fed from a 9V battery, 1 of them can feed 10-20 preamps.
Hi JMFahey, Is there a link? I imagine it's something like this. Also i wouldn't mind building a small board myself.
Here's one solution which sounds similar to what you suggested in the last sentence (minus the board): https://www.chair.audio/diy-piezo-preamp/
Is this doable with 1M ohm Resistors?
With only a vague understanding of your project, I wish to suggest that you need to digitize your audio before feeding it to a hobby microcontroller.
google "stm32 audio" for examples
google "stm32 audio" for examples
There are two approaches to piezo transducers. The classic piezo phono transducers used meg-Ohm inputs, which actually produces an RIAA like response. A high impedance line level input worked well. But if you want a flat response, then you need to understand a "charge amplifier" like those used in accelerometers. A charge amplifier assumes the transducer behaves like a capacitor, so the input is ~zero Ohms impedance inverting input with the gain set by a feedback capacitor, ie an integrator.
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/te...sign-charge-amplifiers-piezoelectric-sensors/
The biggest problem is that the feedback requires a resistance of a massive value, like 1 Giga Ohm. A smaller value like 10 Meg Ohms causes a low frequency roll-off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_amplifier
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/te...sign-charge-amplifiers-piezoelectric-sensors/
The biggest problem is that the feedback requires a resistance of a massive value, like 1 Giga Ohm. A smaller value like 10 Meg Ohms causes a low frequency roll-off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_amplifier