Good evening, I just wonder. Maybe this is a silly question but here we go. Say we have a construction that have a resistor in signal path, then a another component then a resistor again. Or even 3 resistors in the signal path. But say we have two. And you have picked up two resistors that you will go for, say Shinkoh Tantalum and Vishay VAR / Charcroft Z-foil The first one natural and tiny warm / colored and the second one neutral with no coloration. Witch to place first in line, the one that has the clean sound or the one that set the " coloration / warmth ? Or does it not matter? Or why mix two different brands, just go for one brand ? ( I know I with many like to mix parts to maybe get the good stuff from both parts ).
Frank
Frank
Absolute nonsense, no such a thing as a warm or anything sounding resistor, they are all absolutely flat within the audible range so absolutely neutral.
Anybody saying otherwise is only trying to separate you from your money or has no clue or is pulling your leg.
Hi, I know what I hear. And yes resistors have their ovn sound. As also cables and capacitors. That you dont hear it is good for you, you dont have to try new stuff. Not trying to be rude. I know many dont hear that and that is fine. You save alot of money ( : Frank
Hi, put it another way. Say you have a dac, preamp, power amp. You have say rca interconect between the parts. You have a good cable and one super good cable ( I know, many dont hear difrense between cables, but some does. This is for you ). What experiance do you have, put the best cable first or last in chain? Frank
The cryptical way you describe the matter says something. "A contruction with 3 oh no with 2 resistors" would be an attenuator to attenuate something that has too high levels? Too much gain perhaps?! The added noise regarding hearing or not hearing differences between parts/cables etc. is not making it more clear. Or maybe it does
My first question would be WHY that resistors need to be there and what they are supposed to do so a schematic and detailed description of the situation would be helpful. The WHY is first, only then the extreme quality that is supposedly needed.
Last edited:
interesting dilemma...if you put the super good cable in the chain first but the device it's connecting to contains poor quality resistors where does that leave you??
i guess living in sensory overload from all these intrinsic differences must make for a living nightmare!
can a good cable offset or make up the difference of a bad resistor or cap?
i guess living in sensory overload from all these intrinsic differences must make for a living nightmare!
can a good cable offset or make up the difference of a bad resistor or cap?
You must have had the same long ago when you started. It is often caused by uncertainty, lack of knowledge and experience. What is more easy than "rolling" tubes, resistors, capacitors and opamps? There is only one way to solve it Yes to gain more experience by listening, comparing and measuring. That costs a lot of valuable time... way more time than simply buying boutique parts.
Emotion can be a strong part of the audio experience. Sometimes too strong I might add.
Yes to gain more experience by listening, comparing and measuring. That costs a lot of valuable time... way more time than simply buying boutique parts.Emotion can be a strong part of the audio experience. Sometimes too strong I might add.
Last edited:
May work best to use two good cables. Maybe you could try it in mono with the cables you have to see how much difference that might make.
BTW, it usually isn't necessary to use exotic resistors and caps to get excellent sound. Usually there the real problems are elsewhere. Ground loops cause various SQ issues, doesn't have to be audible hum type of thing. Circuit topology is a huge issue. Better results are usually possible with a good topology and average parts rather than the other way around. Regarding opamps, if you are swapping opamps maybe you shouldn't be using IC opamps in the first place. And or maybe there are power supply problems affecting sound. In some cases regulators can have more error amp loop gain than the load circuit operates best with. In short, everything matters or potentially can matter for someone who hears small differences. Its usually a mistake to focus too much just on exotic components.
That's my two cents anyway, just a personal opinion.
It depends on the dac, the preamp and the power amp along with the characteristics of the interconnects. If the interconnect has high capacitance you might choose it for the output of the component with the ability to drive the capacitance, or if it has high capacitance and the output of a stage has not much drive but is very harsh sounding you might put it there to soften the sound a little. However, If you don't know what the characteristics of the cables and components are then you are back where you started. ie. There's no predetermined solution other than to try it and see.
Mark Johnson gave you good, sane and friendly advice. If that doesn't have much interest for you then it might be worth posting your question on the Audio Asylum general forum where you can discuss the sound of products without needing to get into building. It's a subject that gets a lot of people irritated here.
Good Luck !
It would be useful to know HOW each resistor type causes the effects described. I mean they have inductance or something ? I don't understand how resistor A is refined and clear, while resistor B is smooth and even responsed. Or something. Because it seems like they have this effect on the sound regardless of where they are in the signal path or what the job is they are doing. I have nothing in my electronic experience to make that idea work.
If you use careful double-blind testing (like automated XY tester) to compare them all the resistors will magically become indistinquishable - this is due to the removal of expectation bias which totally dominates subjective listening tests if not corrected for.
The human auditory system is hugely suggestible. You only have to check out the McGurk effect to realize that what you hear subjectively is not just what goes into your ears.
You also really have to be able switch rapidly between configurations to do a good job of comparison listening as the auditory working memory in the brain is limited to roughly 7 seconds or so.
And as for resistors in series they carry the same current so the order they occur in doesn't matter.
The human auditory system is hugely suggestible. You only have to check out the McGurk effect to realize that what you hear subjectively is not just what goes into your ears.
You also really have to be able switch rapidly between configurations to do a good job of comparison listening as the auditory working memory in the brain is limited to roughly 7 seconds or so.
And as for resistors in series they carry the same current so the order they occur in doesn't matter.
@Enzo, For a guess, and it is just a guess, if resistors have some unique sound its probably from some small second order physical effects. Say, nickel end caps maybe could add a little low level IMD. Also, while resistors have thermal noise (Johnson noise) while just sitting there, resistors may also produce some excess noise, say, possibly related to signal current and or maybe from temperature variation with signal level, etc. Some of excess noise may or may not be correlated with the audio signal in a way that affects perception in some people yet not in others. IMHO we're sorta getting into an area that has not been fully researched yet. Hopefully continuing research in the field of 'Auditory Scene Analysis' can shed a little more light on such questions over the coming years.
Possible reading material for those interested:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5945068/
https://www.frontiersin.org/article...is (ASA) refers,sound waves reaching the ears.
Possible reading material for those interested:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5945068/
https://www.frontiersin.org/article...is (ASA) refers,sound waves reaching the ears.
Last edited:
Perhaps of interest regarding McGurk effect: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5945068/
Research doesn't suggest to me that looking at an amplifier sitting there is anything like looking at person speaking a different vowel sound. Humans don't use visual cues from amplifiers to aid speech recognition. As an example of illusory hearing in the case of Hi-Fi, looks like a Red Herring to me.
Research doesn't suggest to me that looking at an amplifier sitting there is anything like looking at person speaking a different vowel sound. Humans don't use visual cues from amplifiers to aid speech recognition. As an example of illusory hearing in the case of Hi-Fi, looks like a Red Herring to me.
Valid points. As usual, the boutique audio business shills try to smear it anyway they can, as seen in the example above.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
These auditory differences may be illusionary but I’ve noticed from various posts and threads that they are still ‘real’/valid/relevant to many. What I find most interesting is that it elicits a strong reaction from people who no longer believe in it, hoping to ‘save’ the poor sods getting their wallets emptied.
my 2c
Put the best stuff early in the chain, rather like considerations over noise management
Invite somebody to audition alongside you, it‘s amazing how well a spouse will ‘keep you honest’
my 2c
Put the best stuff early in the chain, rather like considerations over noise management
Invite somebody to audition alongside you, it‘s amazing how well a spouse will ‘keep you honest’
You mean these perceivable differences, right? Because the perception is real to those who experience it regardless of there are many or just a few in numbers.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member