I'm looking at power conditioner advice videos and some of the people say that having a dedicated mains connection and extra earthing can help too.
It strikes me that the best option (for my home hifi setup) would be to get a large enough battery and a pure sine wave inverter.
The price looks to be similar to a conditioner but it seems to me to give a better result, I could also charge the battery on a solar panel and have it completely disconnected from the mains power.
Am I wrong?
It strikes me that the best option (for my home hifi setup) would be to get a large enough battery and a pure sine wave inverter.
The price looks to be similar to a conditioner but it seems to me to give a better result, I could also charge the battery on a solar panel and have it completely disconnected from the mains power.
Am I wrong?
It surely would work. A true sine wave high efficiency inverter is needed, more expensive than general purpose types. If you have a high power class AB or D amplifier, the inverter must also be capable to supply power spikes. The battery should be of the deep cycle type such as LiFePo4, again expensive. Be sure to connect the safety ground of the equipments, this is important due to the Y filter capacitors installed on switching power supplies. I also suggest to add a voltmeter to monitor the battery status. I've built a few setups like this for a mobile application and they work just fine. If your average load is 50-100W you need to budget at least 2000 euro for a industrial-grade quality system that will hopefully not need maintenance for 3 years. Or you may try your luck with surplus parts, they are a lot cheaper or maybe free.
I run my stereo on a solar charged battery / inverter system, which produces much lower noise and distortion supply voltage and current than the utility supplier's mains waveform. Since I replaced the turntable synchronous motor's power supply with an electronic supply the system's superior frequency stability is not really relevant because nothing else in the hifi depends on mains frequency (or for that matter low waveform distortion). The battery bank is 48V 800Ah and the inverter is rated at 5kW long term with 12kW peak output capability. I certainly enjoy freedom from brownouts and blackouts, which is a big bonus were I am, but I seriously doubt that it improves the quality of sound.
For a modest independent supply, a largish online double conversion UPS might be useable if suitably specified. I've occasionally seen well specified units retired from IT installations at very cheap secondhand auction prices, even after factoring the cost of battery replacement. If charging off solar (and with enough battery capacity) a line interactive UPS might be suitable because without connection to the mains it will be runing offline anyway.
Correctly interconnected, properly designed audio equipment should be immune to mains waveform noise and distortion, although DC on the mains can occur and be problematic and serious protection from external surges is desirable. I have occasionally installed Peach Audio power isolation with 1:1 transformers for balanced power, for other people. The Peach unit floats both line and neutral, which are balanced with respect to ground, which in turn is isolated from the house supply ground, removing any DC component and reducing earth current induced noise in some installations. The Peach Audio unit has serious EMI/RFI filtering and surge capability which justifies its investment in expensive systems.
Peach Audio Balanced Studio Power Supply
For a modest independent supply, a largish online double conversion UPS might be useable if suitably specified. I've occasionally seen well specified units retired from IT installations at very cheap secondhand auction prices, even after factoring the cost of battery replacement. If charging off solar (and with enough battery capacity) a line interactive UPS might be suitable because without connection to the mains it will be runing offline anyway.
Correctly interconnected, properly designed audio equipment should be immune to mains waveform noise and distortion, although DC on the mains can occur and be problematic and serious protection from external surges is desirable. I have occasionally installed Peach Audio power isolation with 1:1 transformers for balanced power, for other people. The Peach unit floats both line and neutral, which are balanced with respect to ground, which in turn is isolated from the house supply ground, removing any DC component and reducing earth current induced noise in some installations. The Peach Audio unit has serious EMI/RFI filtering and surge capability which justifies its investment in expensive systems.
Peach Audio Balanced Studio Power Supply
MerianB - Some people think/say that electrical noise from the power grid can be heard and impair sound quality.
Some buy items called "power conditioners" that attempt to lower that electrical noise. They can be very expensive.
Since writing the post I found this: https://stromtank.com/s5000hp/
Pcan - like these?
https://www.renogy.com/3000w-12v-pure-sine-wave-inverter/#
Or
https://www.renogy.com/3000w-12v-pure-sine-wave-inverter-charger-w-lcd-display/
With three of these
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p...2-100agm/605169.html?cgid=SCA01060103#start=2
Some buy items called "power conditioners" that attempt to lower that electrical noise. They can be very expensive.
Since writing the post I found this: https://stromtank.com/s5000hp/
Pcan - like these?
https://www.renogy.com/3000w-12v-pure-sine-wave-inverter/#
Or
https://www.renogy.com/3000w-12v-pure-sine-wave-inverter-charger-w-lcd-display/
With three of these
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p...2-100agm/605169.html?cgid=SCA01060103#start=2
Johnmath - it is hard to know if it would actually improve the system.
As with most things I suppose.
What's a ballpark figure on the cost of the peach unit?
As with most things I suppose.
What's a ballpark figure on the cost of the peach unit?
@Bradstone thanks for the clarifications.
Initially i believed this to be a serious topic, not audiophile crap...
Initially i believed this to be a serious topic, not audiophile crap...
How do you think new innovations in audio improvement come about? Prayer? People who care about fidelity think about how a system works and look at ways to improve it.
Johnmath - did you get the chance to see if there was an audible difference?
I would want to see that the "pure sine wave" was not getting any pulling effects to the local AC power. It is a phenomenen that is quite hard to avoid.
All I know is that I had a hum that I thought was an earth loop, occasionally I would have to move the cables around and it would go away, then I bought a new soundcard, and the hum is there until a mechanical click happens in the card, and the hum is gone.
It's an Asus Essence STXii
Any idea what that could be?
Would that even be a thing with it completely removed from mains power?
As someone once said to me when looking for improving my bike with new and better parts ...maybe improving the rider would be better...
Unfortunately with hearing we dont have the same opportunity and improving the user below the hearing threshold is impossible without hearing aids but I couldnt find audiophile hearing aids for grandpa yet, while improving the audio equipment below that same hearing threshold is utterly useless .Unfortunately too many guys buying a power conditioner never heard what a common mode choke is, what it does and that every single commercial power supply use it by LAW!!! but it needs to be tailored for your needs if your needs are higher than what the laws ask the manufacturer to comply with...Even if you build a sine converter you still need some of these while you could simply use one or two before and after the transformer and/or rectifier bridge and have the cleanest line you need... https://www.coilcraft.com/en-us/edu/series/a-guide-to-understanding-common-mode-chokes/
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Innovations come about due to solid engineering principles and practices.
There are people who innovate, and there are people who waste time and money on audiophile bullsh....
Sorry to be so blunt but none of the audiophile fans have ever provided a measurable reason or technical argument in favor of the ridiculous money waste they promote!
The only purpose of a power supply is to give the needed power rails for the given needs.
Even if there was some measurable noise on the grid ( which i am not saying there is ), there would be more than enough to use an LC filter ( an EMI filter would do just fine ) before the power transformer, also it is good to remember that 50-60hz transformer has poor performance at high frequencies, meaning any HF noise wouldn't get past it anyway, and what does get's trough, it smoothed by the filter caps and rejected by the amplifier's PSRR.
Our friend Raimond and his wealthy clients wouldnt agree on that because spending wealth is its own truth...Some still need to discover the common mode choke...while not many transformers windings are done the best way cause a transformer by itself can lower the noise if properly designed. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5433416
Jesus Christ it was just an idea...
You guys must get off on acting like this or something.
Like, there's stuff out there and people want to know about it have ideas and want to share them, and ofcourse most people aren't going to know all the technical details, and then you're all like "I've been in the industry for twenty years and you need to read a book on basic hydrothermal energy production to know that the nonlinear hypergamous output stage is completely nonpolarised"
Apparently I'm supposed to just know this stuff instead of asking...
You guys must get off on acting like this or something.
Like, there's stuff out there and people want to know about it have ideas and want to share them, and ofcourse most people aren't going to know all the technical details, and then you're all like "I've been in the industry for twenty years and you need to read a book on basic hydrothermal energy production to know that the nonlinear hypergamous output stage is completely nonpolarised"
Apparently I'm supposed to just know this stuff instead of asking...
Yes, you are wrong first and foremost because you already assumed that any of the ideas you mentioned are valuable for your audio experience...
Well...it was just a wrong idea to give these options a chance ...and after you read what a common mode choke is you should understand also why, but if you still cant understand that , then maybe you should just spend all of your money on these things and then tell the same bullsh...to others so that you have a chance to sell the useless stuff you bought! That is actually the main reason why people who buy into expensive cars or luxury watches need or life style are still advertising them after the purchase...cause they need to sell the f...ing things and that cant happen if you tell others that you spent a whole load of money on a stupid useless thing...
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Dude not only did you only just tell me about your fancy quadrapedal hexaforming flux capacitor only twenty minutes ago, but you're also telling me I should also have known about it before I even asked...
"A wrong idea"
ffs I hate social media.
I selected a 24V battery and inverter because the wiring is more practical and the efficiency is better. I use a brand name inverter that is targeted to the RV market. They are sturdy, and less likely to leak RF interference because most RVs have some AV equipment. Try to use a single battery: 100Ah 24V is a good start already. Parallel or series connecting large batteries is not a trivial task, as I found out rather quickly. By the way, a large AGM or Li-ion battery may be dangerous, seek guidance or check out safety rules before starting the project. A high energy plasma release due to short circuit is just as dangerous as a high voltage accident. I strongly suggest to place the heavy parts on a cart with wheels. If your inverter does not have a tunable undervoltage protection, you need to add a undervoltage relay between the battery and the inverter. The charger must be specified for on-vehicle installation, because stand-alone chargers may need to be manually disconnected and reconnected to the battery to initiate a charging cycle. The systems I've built are used in a commercial application. I once tried on my audio system: I didn't hear any difference, but I believe that they would beneficial if the power grid is marginal or unstable, and the audio devices don't have a regulated power supply such as many tube amplifier. To make a better guess about the effectiveness of this solution on your system, you may take some measurements with a power quality monitor. The one we use at work (Fluke) is expensive (8k eur), but there are companies that rent it for a few days. You need to be able to hook it up and read the results, of course. To get a basic idea, you may also usa a digital scope and a small tube output transformer to insulate and bring down to 6-12V the mains voltage on the 20Hz-20KHz range.