hello everybody and thank you for taking the time to read!
I am on the quest to find some very nice studio monitors to mix on for years to come, all while not breaking the bank and not wanting to pay for things like brand image, warranty, marketing and service.
At the beginning I was on the lookout for used speakers (the likes of Amphion One15 / One18, PSI A17m, etc) as they would probably render me with most bang for buck possible, though now I have come across a few people who have decided to build their own speakers, but I have to say that finding folks who are building studio monitors specifically appears to be quite rare.
I personally am rather proficient when it comes to technology, building (woodworking), soldering, and engineering to some degree, though having looked at all the things that go into a capable and usable speaker design I am not certain building a studio monitor from the ground up that rivals the likes of ATC, PSI and Amphion is something I am capable of doing.
It seems then I will probably not go the traditional, full DIY route as for me the focus is 100% on the final product and not so much the way of getting there.
Sure, it seems interesting and romantic to design, conceptualise and build my own custom speakers, though I would probably spend a lot of money simply on all the testing, measuring and so on and so forth.
A few days ago, I came across the SEAS King RO4Y MkIII speaker kit and it seems to almost fit the bill.
On the surface, it looks like the most bang for buck that it is going to get for my application (a 3k kit that potentially rivals 10k+ speakers?).
I am of course aware that it is not exclusively the price that determines the value of a pair of speakers for ones application (the specifics matter: components, room, usage, etc), so I am unsure wether or not this Seas kit is my only good option and if it is even a smart idea to begin with.
For reference, I am in a rather small room 4mx3m currently, though it is pretty well treated with very dense absorbers and for what its worth I am getting a very good response with my (of course considerably smaller) Adam T5v monitors. Also note that this is not the room I will be staying in as I will most likely move to one that is a little larger in the near future, if that at all adjusts the equation.
If I had unlimited money I would probably buy the ATC SCM25 Pro monitors as I love their sound signature (clear, natural and forward mids with little distortion), but I simply cannot fork over the 7k (used price that is) they cost, so I am essentially looking for a similarly performing speaker that would fit my budget a little better (around 3k).
I would be very thankful for more experienced people to give me some sort of guidance as to what would be best in my current situation and if DIY (or building a kit) is the best option to go with, or if I should simply go out and buy a used pair of Amphions, PSI's, or other higher end speakers that fit my budget.
I am on the quest to find some very nice studio monitors to mix on for years to come, all while not breaking the bank and not wanting to pay for things like brand image, warranty, marketing and service.
At the beginning I was on the lookout for used speakers (the likes of Amphion One15 / One18, PSI A17m, etc) as they would probably render me with most bang for buck possible, though now I have come across a few people who have decided to build their own speakers, but I have to say that finding folks who are building studio monitors specifically appears to be quite rare.
I personally am rather proficient when it comes to technology, building (woodworking), soldering, and engineering to some degree, though having looked at all the things that go into a capable and usable speaker design I am not certain building a studio monitor from the ground up that rivals the likes of ATC, PSI and Amphion is something I am capable of doing.
It seems then I will probably not go the traditional, full DIY route as for me the focus is 100% on the final product and not so much the way of getting there.
Sure, it seems interesting and romantic to design, conceptualise and build my own custom speakers, though I would probably spend a lot of money simply on all the testing, measuring and so on and so forth.
A few days ago, I came across the SEAS King RO4Y MkIII speaker kit and it seems to almost fit the bill.
On the surface, it looks like the most bang for buck that it is going to get for my application (a 3k kit that potentially rivals 10k+ speakers?).
I am of course aware that it is not exclusively the price that determines the value of a pair of speakers for ones application (the specifics matter: components, room, usage, etc), so I am unsure wether or not this Seas kit is my only good option and if it is even a smart idea to begin with.
For reference, I am in a rather small room 4mx3m currently, though it is pretty well treated with very dense absorbers and for what its worth I am getting a very good response with my (of course considerably smaller) Adam T5v monitors. Also note that this is not the room I will be staying in as I will most likely move to one that is a little larger in the near future, if that at all adjusts the equation.
If I had unlimited money I would probably buy the ATC SCM25 Pro monitors as I love their sound signature (clear, natural and forward mids with little distortion), but I simply cannot fork over the 7k (used price that is) they cost, so I am essentially looking for a similarly performing speaker that would fit my budget a little better (around 3k).
I would be very thankful for more experienced people to give me some sort of guidance as to what would be best in my current situation and if DIY (or building a kit) is the best option to go with, or if I should simply go out and buy a used pair of Amphions, PSI's, or other higher end speakers that fit my budget.
Hello!
If you go for DIY, you need to have (or willing to have) the basic knowledge about enclosure simulation, crossover design, impedance, basic electronic circuits, able to build cables and simple circuit adaptors, acoustic measurements and the softwares that will support you such as REW and XSim (or similar). You'll find a lot of very skilled people here willing to help you if this is the case.
You'd not spend much money on this but certainly you'd spend time depending on your current skills. To be minimally successful, you need a analog calibrated mic and basic auxiliary circuit to connect it to the PC sound card. Auxiliary circuit is also necessary to get impedance curves of speakers using a PC sound card. Softwares are free and a calibrated mic is around US$100.00 plus a pre-amp with phantom power (+48V) which would cost around US$100.00. You also need a simple audio amp to feed the speakers for measurements (source is REW running in a PC).
With full DIY, you can get a really good 3-way pair of speakers under, let's say, US$1K, but it would come with a lot of effort (not money). But for DIYers, the building process is the fun part. This doesn't seam to be your case.
That said, if not going full DIY, the alternative is to build a kit or replicate someone else's project that meets your requirements.
Or go for good used commecial speaker.
As I have a complete music studio I am fairly certain that the technical side (as far as equipment and software goes) is accounted for. The only thing holding me back from a full DIY approach is the very speaker specific stuff (cabinet design, phase, resonance, crossover, etc). I think I would need a lot of time and experience to design something that would rival the 5-10k speakers I am looking to attain. Maybe I am wrong though it seems like a very steep mountain at the moment.
Do you know of any DIY - Kits that specifically are studio monitors and would fit into a similar realm of what I am looking for?
The OSMC speaker has fairly complete documentation and uses the 3" volt midrange which is about as close as DIYers can get to the ATC 3" midrange you like. It's not active, the woofer is modest and it's a sealed cabinet. Might be worth considering.
That Volt 752 definitely looks interesting, these seem like more midfield or farfield speakers though, I don't think I could use them as my main nearfields comfortably. Overall this is the direction I would like to go in, perhaps this midrange driver is also found in some other designs.
My head is a bit spinning here... I think that Management Professionals call this kind of thing, "Decision Paralysis."
My first Samurai-Sword Chop at this Watermelon is, "Don't reinvent the Wheel!!!" Designing Full-Bore DIY (from scratch), easily becomes "An Infinite Regress, In a Hall of Mirrors."
IMHO, it is far better to stand on the shoulders of others, or buy a kit.
I attach a few photos of my most recent project, which went through four generations... going from a ported two-way with Woofer A and Tweeter B, to three generations later, Purifi PTT5.25 woofer with 2 Purifi Passive Radiators per box, and Beyma's TPL-75 3-inch AMT Tweeter. (Generation One is up on the right of the wire rack.)
You can knock off/copy my final design with a generic box build... generic, because my customer opted for Richlite cabinets with violin varnish (7 coats) on the front-panel edges, and the rest of the cabinets done by Steinway & Sons' outside contractor for "special" piano finishes, such as hi-gloss Danube Blue.
You do not want to know what all that cost.
The rear panels are held on with Silicon Bronze wooden-boat-building screws. Execution of my cabinet design was by Corwin Butterworth, who studied at the world-famous Rhode Island School of Design Furniture Department.
All you would have to do, is the crossover design. BTW, the PTT5.25 has the same magnet and motor system as Purifi's 6.5, so that was a no-brainer for me. 30% more "Push."
If you can wait until August, Philharmonic Audio's BMR Monitor will be back in stock. My review in Tracking Angle plus the Stereophile review with John Atkinson's measurements sold every pair they had in stock. https://trackingangle.com/equipment/philharmonic-audio-balanced-mode-radiator-bmr-monitor-loudspeaker
HERE'S an off-the-wall suggestion. In my own loudspeaker design work, I devised a new metric, "Agility Factor." But late one night, my home was surrounded by people dressed in white-satin Ku Klux Klan robes, hoods, and masks, and they were carrying burning Tiki torches. They were chanting "Burn the Heretic." I am sure you know how that is.
My #1 rule of loudspeaker design is, "Pay as much as you can for the drivers, and pray that you got what you paid for."
As impressive as the SEAS King RO4Y MkIII is, I have a few issues with it. And, it's perhaps a bit much, for nearfield monitoring.
HOWEVER, SEAS has a new driver I have not heard (US Hobbyist cost, with sales tax and shipping, circa US$1000 per matched pair); but it fascinates me, because it is one step more advanced than TPCD: "MetaModal TPCD."
It's a 5.75-inch woofer mid: W16NX005. A/k/a E0115-08. EVEN BETTER, SEAS has offered as Freeware the plans and miniDSP programming for a 2-way sealed box (14L). The "Lucid."
By my calculations, the SEAS W16NX005 has 50% MORE "Agility Factor" than the Purifi 6.5.
Yes, its bass rolloff is 10Hz higher than the Purifi 6.5's; but SEAS's stock "Lucid" DIY recipe is active DSP. (SEAS also offers plans for analog-parts Xovers.)
Tony Faulkner is a friend of mine, and he is the best-selling classical recording engineer in history. Tony usually monitors on QUAD Electrostats. But if those don't fit in a location-recording situation, he only uses 2-way dome and cone speakers, because he told me once that he never heard a 3-way where he could not hear the crossover.
Below, a photo of the SEAS Lucid Kit suggested cabinet (they do not offer cabinets, but I am hopeful that iWISTAO will be able to provide good cabinets at a fair price, seeing as you live in DE and not US).
all my best, and feel free to email me privately.
john
My first Samurai-Sword Chop at this Watermelon is, "Don't reinvent the Wheel!!!" Designing Full-Bore DIY (from scratch), easily becomes "An Infinite Regress, In a Hall of Mirrors."
IMHO, it is far better to stand on the shoulders of others, or buy a kit.
I attach a few photos of my most recent project, which went through four generations... going from a ported two-way with Woofer A and Tweeter B, to three generations later, Purifi PTT5.25 woofer with 2 Purifi Passive Radiators per box, and Beyma's TPL-75 3-inch AMT Tweeter. (Generation One is up on the right of the wire rack.)
You can knock off/copy my final design with a generic box build... generic, because my customer opted for Richlite cabinets with violin varnish (7 coats) on the front-panel edges, and the rest of the cabinets done by Steinway & Sons' outside contractor for "special" piano finishes, such as hi-gloss Danube Blue.
You do not want to know what all that cost.
The rear panels are held on with Silicon Bronze wooden-boat-building screws. Execution of my cabinet design was by Corwin Butterworth, who studied at the world-famous Rhode Island School of Design Furniture Department.
If you can wait until August, Philharmonic Audio's BMR Monitor will be back in stock. My review in Tracking Angle plus the Stereophile review with John Atkinson's measurements sold every pair they had in stock. https://trackingangle.com/equipment/philharmonic-audio-balanced-mode-radiator-bmr-monitor-loudspeaker
HERE'S an off-the-wall suggestion. In my own loudspeaker design work, I devised a new metric, "Agility Factor." But late one night, my home was surrounded by people dressed in white-satin Ku Klux Klan robes, hoods, and masks, and they were carrying burning Tiki torches. They were chanting "Burn the Heretic." I am sure you know how that is.
My #1 rule of loudspeaker design is, "Pay as much as you can for the drivers, and pray that you got what you paid for."
As impressive as the SEAS King RO4Y MkIII is, I have a few issues with it. And, it's perhaps a bit much, for nearfield monitoring.
HOWEVER, SEAS has a new driver I have not heard (US Hobbyist cost, with sales tax and shipping, circa US$1000 per matched pair); but it fascinates me, because it is one step more advanced than TPCD: "MetaModal TPCD."
It's a 5.75-inch woofer mid: W16NX005. A/k/a E0115-08. EVEN BETTER, SEAS has offered as Freeware the plans and miniDSP programming for a 2-way sealed box (14L). The "Lucid."
By my calculations, the SEAS W16NX005 has 50% MORE "Agility Factor" than the Purifi 6.5.
Yes, its bass rolloff is 10Hz higher than the Purifi 6.5's; but SEAS's stock "Lucid" DIY recipe is active DSP. (SEAS also offers plans for analog-parts Xovers.)
Tony Faulkner is a friend of mine, and he is the best-selling classical recording engineer in history. Tony usually monitors on QUAD Electrostats. But if those don't fit in a location-recording situation, he only uses 2-way dome and cone speakers, because he told me once that he never heard a 3-way where he could not hear the crossover.
Below, a photo of the SEAS Lucid Kit suggested cabinet (they do not offer cabinets, but I am hopeful that iWISTAO will be able to provide good cabinets at a fair price, seeing as you live in DE and not US).
all my best, and feel free to email me privately.
john
I’d refine the question. You want nearfield monitors. How big? What SPL requirements at which bandwidth? What preference do you have in terms of directivity? How will you mount them? Do you intend to EQ your monitoring system ruler flat and are you planning to control room modes? With a budget of 3k you have a lot of options. There are quite some DIY designs with the Purifi 6,5” around (that woofer sure has good specs), but maybe you’d like a cardioid (D&D 8C) better.
I think the most important reason to start such a project is your interest for learning and confidence to get something done.
I'm an electronic musician with some experience about studio monitors which I own. I also compared my monitors with others and realized there are many pros and cons and thought about a concept according to my requirements.
I'm just building a 3way monitor system for a 5x5 meter studio. Usually I listen in near field with monitors on stands in a moderate level.
In the beginning I was thinking only about an improvement of my bass and got an idea for a subwoofer. Then I was asking my self how to combine them with my monitors. Eventually I ended up in designing an entire system consisting of stand/amp/speaker-units and one separate sub for each unit.
I'm an electronic musician with some experience about studio monitors which I own. I also compared my monitors with others and realized there are many pros and cons and thought about a concept according to my requirements.
I'm just building a 3way monitor system for a 5x5 meter studio. Usually I listen in near field with monitors on stands in a moderate level.
In the beginning I was thinking only about an improvement of my bass and got an idea for a subwoofer. Then I was asking my self how to combine them with my monitors. Eventually I ended up in designing an entire system consisting of stand/amp/speaker-units and one separate sub for each unit.
I want clean, controlled output at 85–90 dB SPL with transient headroom. Full-range extension isn’t strictly necessary, but I'd like at least something like 40 Hz at -6 dB with low distortion and tight impulse response. I have some flexibility in regards to the mounting and I would probably decide that based on the physical dimensions the monitors will end up being: If they are rather small I would probably put them on my raised desk (like a meterbridge), but for something like the KingRO4Y I would most likely put them on floor stands either behind or next to the desk, whatever makes more sense acoustically. Smooth and consistent off-axis response would be nice. I will definitely apply some room correction (either DSP or Sonarworks), though my room is quite well treated across the frequency range.
Coax drivers can give you a large sweet spot. You don't need to catch it with moving your head into it.
For me its more important to hear a well known sound constantly than having the best sound changing by a head movement, especially in near field.
For me its more important to hear a well known sound constantly than having the best sound changing by a head movement, especially in near field.