I'm looking to build myself a good set of speakers to replace my Focal floorstanders.
I do a lot of joinery work including bespoke cabinetry so building the cabinet from scratch is not a problem, hence why I don't want to waste money on pre-cut cabinets that come with some kits. I want all of my outlay/investment to be on drivers and crossovers.
Amp wise I am currently running a Michi X3 which has a max output in class AB of 350w/ch into 4ohm and 200w/ch continuous into 8ohm. At some point I will no doubt start to experiment with pre and power amps and no doubt tube amplification.
My musical tastes are eclectic but I would say mostly - Alternative, Prog, Kraut, Psych, Electronic, Folk, Reggae & Dub, Hip Hop/Rap, Rock some Jazz and Classical.
A member recently introduced me to SEAS kits and their drivers do seem impressive. Has anyone built any of their speaker kits or could anyone recommend one?
I am interested in the Delling, Thor, Acuity and Aphel from the quick read I have had....any thoughts?
I do a lot of joinery work including bespoke cabinetry so building the cabinet from scratch is not a problem, hence why I don't want to waste money on pre-cut cabinets that come with some kits. I want all of my outlay/investment to be on drivers and crossovers.
Amp wise I am currently running a Michi X3 which has a max output in class AB of 350w/ch into 4ohm and 200w/ch continuous into 8ohm. At some point I will no doubt start to experiment with pre and power amps and no doubt tube amplification.
My musical tastes are eclectic but I would say mostly - Alternative, Prog, Kraut, Psych, Electronic, Folk, Reggae & Dub, Hip Hop/Rap, Rock some Jazz and Classical.
A member recently introduced me to SEAS kits and their drivers do seem impressive. Has anyone built any of their speaker kits or could anyone recommend one?
I am interested in the Delling, Thor, Acuity and Aphel from the quick read I have had....any thoughts?
Maybe it would be useful let us know what Focals you are using and what is their power handling you have a fair few watts available with that amp ?
Additionally room size and preferred listening levels, when you listen is the Rotel volume control at a quarter or half of its rotation, again i ask the question to try and understand how you like to listen ?
At the same time, have you checked that all the drivers are still being made by Seas, i assume they are, but worth a check just in case. At the same time as checking for availability do your sums and look at the total cost of the drivers, plus maybe up to another 200-300 for good quality crossover parts for a complex three way design. Plus timber, but you already understand that aspect.
Other kit designs are available, and I am sure others will point you at a few other well known websites.
Additionally room size and preferred listening levels, when you listen is the Rotel volume control at a quarter or half of its rotation, again i ask the question to try and understand how you like to listen ?
At the same time, have you checked that all the drivers are still being made by Seas, i assume they are, but worth a check just in case. At the same time as checking for availability do your sums and look at the total cost of the drivers, plus maybe up to another 200-300 for good quality crossover parts for a complex three way design. Plus timber, but you already understand that aspect.
Other kit designs are available, and I am sure others will point you at a few other well known websites.
Thanks @raymondj
I'm currently using Focal Aria K2 936 floorstanders - 92db sensitivity, 2.8ohm minimum impedance, 8ohm nominal impedance and recommended power handling of 50 - 300w ( Also have a Rel T7x sub to take care of low end but not really needed with the Focals as they go pretty low )
Michi has a digital volume display and I suspect (never tried) goes from 0 - 99. Usually listen between 21 - 30 - when I've measured on my phone it's not really any more than 70 - 75db. I like a bit of volume but not excessive as I find that fatiguing.
Room is 4.3m x 7m with a ceiling height of 2.7m - the speaker direction is width ways so listening position is about 3 - 3.3m away from speakers. Unfortunately the location is not ideal and is towards the right hand of the room and will no doubt suffer from reflections from the right speaker.
I have checked that the drivers are still being made and all appear to be available from Falcon Acoustics. Drivers for a couple of designs I have looked at, both using the W18E001 Woofer and T25CF002 Millenium tweeter would be £1994.04 inc. vat 🙄
As yet haven't tried to decipher the crossover parts as I'm not so clued up on that part.
I'm currently using Focal Aria K2 936 floorstanders - 92db sensitivity, 2.8ohm minimum impedance, 8ohm nominal impedance and recommended power handling of 50 - 300w ( Also have a Rel T7x sub to take care of low end but not really needed with the Focals as they go pretty low )
Michi has a digital volume display and I suspect (never tried) goes from 0 - 99. Usually listen between 21 - 30 - when I've measured on my phone it's not really any more than 70 - 75db. I like a bit of volume but not excessive as I find that fatiguing.
Room is 4.3m x 7m with a ceiling height of 2.7m - the speaker direction is width ways so listening position is about 3 - 3.3m away from speakers. Unfortunately the location is not ideal and is towards the right hand of the room and will no doubt suffer from reflections from the right speaker.
I have checked that the drivers are still being made and all appear to be available from Falcon Acoustics. Drivers for a couple of designs I have looked at, both using the W18E001 Woofer and T25CF002 Millenium tweeter would be £1994.04 inc. vat 🙄
As yet haven't tried to decipher the crossover parts as I'm not so clued up on that part.
If I lived in the UK, I'd get these https://audiofirstdesigns.co.uk/fidelia and then build a DIY subwoofer to satisfy cabinet construction desire.
The audiofirstdesigns crossover, drivers, and implementation would be a challenge to exceed on your own at the same price point.
The audiofirstdesigns crossover, drivers, and implementation would be a challenge to exceed on your own at the same price point.
The Fidelia looks pretty good,but I think it may be too small for your room, even with a sub, the above review comments on the room size. Our room is about 5m x 11m and we need a pair of 6" MTMs and a sub for that.
You have a very healthy budget and can do woodworking, so the Fidelia may not be the most cost effective option: the cabinet price must account for a large chunk of the damage.
Geoff
You have a very healthy budget and can do woodworking, so the Fidelia may not be the most cost effective option: the cabinet price must account for a large chunk of the damage.
Geoff
I would not limit yourself to seas drivers, there are many good brands. I would first determine what kind of speaker you want and then search a kit like that.
But of the Seas kits that are availeble, the Thor is probally closest to the format you now have (the Focal). But there are many well tested kits and plans out that are often more value for money.
But of the Seas kits that are availeble, the Thor is probally closest to the format you now have (the Focal). But there are many well tested kits and plans out that are often more value for money.
From the Seas 2-way kits, I like the relative simplicity of both the Aphel (the designer actually posted about it here), and also the Makako variant of the A26 kit which some users have built and liked . More info https://www.dibirama.it/home-page/d...-makako-2-vie-bass-reflex-8-ohm-300-wmax.html
But yeah, there sure are tons of other options out there. The 2.5 way type Focals have seldom been my cup of tea, hence I'd lean towards a simple larger two-way or a serious 3-way.
But yeah, there sure are tons of other options out there. The 2.5 way type Focals have seldom been my cup of tea, hence I'd lean towards a simple larger two-way or a serious 3-way.
I'd recommend a set of speakers having larger bass units, the ones being capable play deep without EQ help.
It would help get a better perspective.
It's true that a larger bass driver will give you a deeper and stronger bass in general, but it's not always the case.
One i know is good is the Troels Faital Troels 3WC-15 kit. It's certainly not cheap to buy, but it's well studied and gets bass to the low 30's easely. I heared that set (a friend did build it during covid) and it goes low and loud, but also on relative silent level. It's a big heavy cabinet altough, much larger than the focals. But a big woofer bass is someting very different than subbass from a small woofer, it's less stressed and forced sounding. He drives it with an older Marantz transistor amp (don't remember the model) of about 50w per side. I also tested it with a clean class D (Ncore) amp recently, and it works good on both.
It's not the only one doing this, there are other good cheaper kits from others like Humble Home Hifi (Calpamos variations), you have the dififerent econowave versions, .... But Troels his kits work very well and are well documented for people like you how to build them. The 3WC-15 that i heared was build by a carpenter who make custom hi end furnisment for expensive homes. He knows nothing about electronics or acoustics, but he could make the speaker himself just following instructions. The only thing he needed me for was to check everything and measure it/install it in his home.
One i know is good is the Troels Faital Troels 3WC-15 kit. It's certainly not cheap to buy, but it's well studied and gets bass to the low 30's easely. I heared that set (a friend did build it during covid) and it goes low and loud, but also on relative silent level. It's a big heavy cabinet altough, much larger than the focals. But a big woofer bass is someting very different than subbass from a small woofer, it's less stressed and forced sounding. He drives it with an older Marantz transistor amp (don't remember the model) of about 50w per side. I also tested it with a clean class D (Ncore) amp recently, and it works good on both.
It's not the only one doing this, there are other good cheaper kits from others like Humble Home Hifi (Calpamos variations), you have the dififerent econowave versions, .... But Troels his kits work very well and are well documented for people like you how to build them. The 3WC-15 that i heared was build by a carpenter who make custom hi end furnisment for expensive homes. He knows nothing about electronics or acoustics, but he could make the speaker himself just following instructions. The only thing he needed me for was to check everything and measure it/install it in his home.
What would be your suggestions @Lojzek as a starting point? I was looking at some of Troels' Ellipticor designs last night but at around £8k for the drivers and crossovers they're a bit out of my league!
What is the budget?
A pair of Hypex Fusions gets you amps and XO.
I would look at the Purifi drivers, their tweeter should be released soon and shows great promise. Expensive drivers but they seem to be some of the best drivers on the market. I have only heard the Lyngforg (£18k passive speakers) using their woofers and the clarity of the bass was exceptional and that from a 6.5" woofer and a couple of passive radiators.
A pair of Hypex Fusions gets you amps and XO.
I would look at the Purifi drivers, their tweeter should be released soon and shows great promise. Expensive drivers but they seem to be some of the best drivers on the market. I have only heard the Lyngforg (£18k passive speakers) using their woofers and the clarity of the bass was exceptional and that from a 6.5" woofer and a couple of passive radiators.
I do like the look of that and looks simple enough to build - may have to consider the 12" version as they could be a bit too big for the room (and the wife ).
I doubt I'd want to spend much more than £2k on a full driver/crossover kit.
Having spent a hefty chunk of change on an integrated amp I don't really want to go down the active route just now.
Totally agree and to be honest, that's a bit too much like diy by numbers for me, no challenge. I know I'd be paying for having those cabinet pieces cnc'd and the whole point of me doing diy is so I'm not wasting my budget on other people creating the cabinets.
In terms of using a larger bass driver, you may have to consider your proposed room location, the added room gain from pushing a speaker closer to the rear wall or a corner may be too much. possibly playing with port damping could help a little here.
If the wife can agree to a larger cabinet size a 12" woofer based design could be very rewarding for a sensible outlay.
If the wife can agree to a larger cabinet size a 12" woofer based design could be very rewarding for a sensible outlay.
So, so to put things in context, we must consider the following conclusion: Troels /The Loudspeaker 2/ - ''I don't want a 15" bass driver because the 18" BMS just does stuff like I've never had bass before.'' Like I've never had bass before... damn. BUT! I just thought of something suddenly: ABBA - "Money, Money, Money" and the saying: "If you sing something three times, it becomes true" - well, that's right, unfortunately🙂. Money, money, money... the wife... etc. It is already complicated enough and the selection criteria may be largely a matter of compromise.
I would recommend looking more at Troel's Scanspeak Revelator or SBAcoustics builds. Much more likely to be in your price target.
Personally, I am a huge fan of the SBAcoustics drivers, especially the paper Satori midbass drivers. They lack any extreme peaks in their response curves, so crossover designs can be kept relatively simple.
Also check out the Elsinore build thread on this website. That looks really good and easy as well.