Not much out there but I've looked at:
Active crossover DIY PCB, 2-way, 2nd order stereo or 3rd,4th mono | eBay
and
ESP Electronic Crossover
I've owned two commercial active crossovers in the past. One was horrible (the net effect was worse than obtained from a modest passive set up) and the other one was stunning, giving the advantages one expects from an active system. The good one (Linn "Aktiv") was a fixed slope LR, with user adjustable gain for each driver. It also had EQ specific for a particular set of drive units, but, as a novice, I should probably keep things as simple as possible.
If someone could look at the above kits and recommend one over the other that would be great, and/or recommend another option.
Active crossover DIY PCB, 2-way, 2nd order stereo or 3rd,4th mono | eBay
and
ESP Electronic Crossover
I've owned two commercial active crossovers in the past. One was horrible (the net effect was worse than obtained from a modest passive set up) and the other one was stunning, giving the advantages one expects from an active system. The good one (Linn "Aktiv") was a fixed slope LR, with user adjustable gain for each driver. It also had EQ specific for a particular set of drive units, but, as a novice, I should probably keep things as simple as possible.
If someone could look at the above kits and recommend one over the other that would be great, and/or recommend another option.
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Without personal experience with the two designs you list, I can't recommend one over the other. However, for a commercially available XO, I recommend looking at the Ashly XR-1001. That's what I use... I picked mine up for about $100 shipped on eBay - so less than what you'd spend on power supply and chassis alone. The XR-1001 will handle two channels stereo, hence, is perfect for a stereo 2-way speaker. For a 3-way stereo, you'll need either two XR-1001s or an XR-2001.
~Tom
~Tom
What speakers are you using it with?
DSP offers a lot of flexibility over those designs.
With those designs you have no way of inserting additional delays for time alignment of woofer/tweeter or notches to deal with resonances.
DSP offers a lot of flexibility over those designs.
With those designs you have no way of inserting additional delays for time alignment of woofer/tweeter or notches to deal with resonances.
You really did not describe your use case or level of experience, so we are all giving very vague comments from our own experiences. Do you need to adjust order, spacing, phase, frequency, or any shaping? Symmetrical?
Mini DSP if you want to go that way for the flexibility. ESP has boards for analog and I think Linkwitz still does. They both know their stuff. Read their webs. The e-bay board looks fine, but no schematic. The circuits are pretty well known and would be about the same. It is hard to tell if the layout has the space for higher quality caps.
Active crossovers are pretty simple if you ONLY need the crossover. If you start to add more shaping and phase control, they get more complicated. Like any active component, power supply quality matters as does correct part selection. An Op Amp that does not have sufficient current drive and a long cable is bad news, just is a poor cap selection. I don't want to start any arguments, but a properly selected and properly used Op Amp can be very good. I have no doubt some of the folks on these forums can and have designed far better circuits with discrete FETs. Alas, no DIY boards.
Many people are surprised how well a cheap DBX, Ashley, Rane, or Bheringer analog crossover does. They are not ultra esoteric high end, but usually not the weal link in a system either. If you are using $10,000 amps, $50,000 speakers, from a direct master tape, yea then you probably need to do better. If you are listening to a CD, don't worry about it. A bog advantage is for $100 or less, you can fire it up and twittle the knobs until you find the exact settings to fit your need. Then build your own dedicated with what you may consider proper parts and power supply.
Mini DSP if you want to go that way for the flexibility. ESP has boards for analog and I think Linkwitz still does. They both know their stuff. Read their webs. The e-bay board looks fine, but no schematic. The circuits are pretty well known and would be about the same. It is hard to tell if the layout has the space for higher quality caps.
Active crossovers are pretty simple if you ONLY need the crossover. If you start to add more shaping and phase control, they get more complicated. Like any active component, power supply quality matters as does correct part selection. An Op Amp that does not have sufficient current drive and a long cable is bad news, just is a poor cap selection. I don't want to start any arguments, but a properly selected and properly used Op Amp can be very good. I have no doubt some of the folks on these forums can and have designed far better circuits with discrete FETs. Alas, no DIY boards.
Many people are surprised how well a cheap DBX, Ashley, Rane, or Bheringer analog crossover does. They are not ultra esoteric high end, but usually not the weal link in a system either. If you are using $10,000 amps, $50,000 speakers, from a direct master tape, yea then you probably need to do better. If you are listening to a CD, don't worry about it. A bog advantage is for $100 or less, you can fire it up and twittle the knobs until you find the exact settings to fit your need. Then build your own dedicated with what you may consider proper parts and power supply.
Oh, I use both an analog Bheringer, a Behringer DCX , two active op-amp crossovers of which one is a modified car unit, and still wind up with passive parts in my speakers. I don't have a speaker I have built without some filtering that is not just the crossover. BSC, notches, or tame a hot tweeter. Some of this is actually easier in passive.
If you have a computer in your system you could get one of the higher end gaming cards and do your crossovers in software. Otherwise miniDSP is the best bet IMO. Beats anything for the price, sound quality, and flexibility. I used two before I went with a software crossover and a pro interface, which is another option but more $$$.
I'd stay away from the cheap Behringer analog fixed slope boxes, I had a CX2310 and it sounded like crap. In fact, I'd stay away from any fixed slope crossover of any value if your actually interested in designing speakers.
Non of these are DIY (miniDSP sort of is), but I don't think for the price you'd be gaining anything with DIY. If you're looking at doing one set of speakers, and you want to do it once and be done with it I suppose something like Linkwitz' boards could be modified to fit your speaker. What is it you're trying to do?
I'd stay away from the cheap Behringer analog fixed slope boxes, I had a CX2310 and it sounded like crap. In fact, I'd stay away from any fixed slope crossover of any value if your actually interested in designing speakers.
Non of these are DIY (miniDSP sort of is), but I don't think for the price you'd be gaining anything with DIY. If you're looking at doing one set of speakers, and you want to do it once and be done with it I suppose something like Linkwitz' boards could be modified to fit your speaker. What is it you're trying to do?
The CX2310 may be "crap"; it sure is cheap, but it is not the weak link in most systems. You may be surprised to know that most of the studio equipment is of similar quality or worse. I think it sounds better than my DCX. A few small modifications, like a couple of caps and a better external power supply can bring one up to snuff. As Nate says, you are limited to the fixed slope. Almost no speaker winds up that way. A CDX and a DEQ can combine, but you are talking some bucks here and both need some power supply work. Mini DSP is a better fit.
Anyway, when you wake up, being on the other side of the world, let us know what you are trying to do.
Anyway, when you wake up, being on the other side of the world, let us know what you are trying to do.
Hi all,
Thanks for the suggestions.
Based on comments , it looks like ESP or Linkwitz products would suit me better.
(The mini DSP stuff looks great, but I'm into analogue.)
To add some info:
Ideally, I would like to build some simple, individual filters for inclusion at the input of the power amps (IE, internally). LR designs are alleged to be phase coherent at cross-over points (?) and that's a feature I would like to have.
I can solder fairly well, and I have a multi-meter and capacitance meter.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Based on comments , it looks like ESP or Linkwitz products would suit me better.
(The mini DSP stuff looks great, but I'm into analogue.)
To add some info:
Ideally, I would like to build some simple, individual filters for inclusion at the input of the power amps (IE, internally). LR designs are alleged to be phase coherent at cross-over points (?) and that's a feature I would like to have.
I can solder fairly well, and I have a multi-meter and capacitance meter.
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My two bits worth from having played with a range of analogue and digitially based active crossovers:
- Having walked the path I have, if I were starting again I would simply start with the DSP solution - noting that I have not used the minidsp.
- Any active crossover is worlds apart from a passive crossover, you will find that modifying crossover points and attenuation values in either analogue or DSP is heaps easier, cheaper and faster than in a passive XO.
- The behaviour of an actively crossed loudspeaker system at high levels, and on dynamic passages, is absolutely worlds apart from a passive system. Try ether an analogue or DSP crossover and if set up properly you will not go back to a passive crossover!
- An analogue active crossover does have limitations in that it will generally not provide you parametric EQ, variable slopes, time alignment etc. I consider these to be significant limitations that in an ideal world would not be there.
- DSP based crossovers do not present these issues. The utility of time alignment alone cannot be understated. Parametric EQ can save you "kilograms" of passive components if you need to tame an unruly driver.
- The DSP srossover will be easier to use and program if you get something reasonable.
If you are concerned that a DSP crossover will have some adverse effect on the sound - I can assure you that I have struggled to measure the effect of the DSP crossovers I use.
If this issue is one of subjectivity, then I will politely bow out of the discussion! (And wonder why you don't buy some old field coil speakers and a 78RPM player ... shut up phil!!!)
- Having walked the path I have, if I were starting again I would simply start with the DSP solution - noting that I have not used the minidsp.
- Any active crossover is worlds apart from a passive crossover, you will find that modifying crossover points and attenuation values in either analogue or DSP is heaps easier, cheaper and faster than in a passive XO.
- The behaviour of an actively crossed loudspeaker system at high levels, and on dynamic passages, is absolutely worlds apart from a passive system. Try ether an analogue or DSP crossover and if set up properly you will not go back to a passive crossover!
- An analogue active crossover does have limitations in that it will generally not provide you parametric EQ, variable slopes, time alignment etc. I consider these to be significant limitations that in an ideal world would not be there.
- DSP based crossovers do not present these issues. The utility of time alignment alone cannot be understated. Parametric EQ can save you "kilograms" of passive components if you need to tame an unruly driver.
- The DSP srossover will be easier to use and program if you get something reasonable.
If you are concerned that a DSP crossover will have some adverse effect on the sound - I can assure you that I have struggled to measure the effect of the DSP crossovers I use.
If this issue is one of subjectivity, then I will politely bow out of the discussion! (And wonder why you don't buy some old field coil speakers and a 78RPM player ... shut up phil!!!)
I'm with you Phil.
The last analogue filter that I'll probably ever build, a 4 way 4th order LR in proper cascaded topology and incorporating EQ, time alignment etc. and using really good bits (Black Gates, Elna Silmics, AD825's and OPA627's, Sulzer-Borberly regs etc.) couldn't even come close to a DSP solution.
Came as a bit of a surprise.
The last analogue filter that I'll probably ever build, a 4 way 4th order LR in proper cascaded topology and incorporating EQ, time alignment etc. and using really good bits (Black Gates, Elna Silmics, AD825's and OPA627's, Sulzer-Borberly regs etc.) couldn't even come close to a DSP solution.
Came as a bit of a surprise.
I've been working with the MiniDSP crossover (their 2x4 "in a box" units) and have been favorably impressed. In order to get the most out of these units, I developed a set of active crossover design tools (ACD for short) that are freeware for non-commercial use. If you get the "advanced biquad" plug in for the MiniDSP, you can do all the development of the crossover in my tools, and then load the filters into the MiniDSP. This is really making crossover development great, and you can get feedback from your ears and very quickly update the crossover and listen to the changes. The advanced biquads make it simple to implement just about any analog filter that can be realized with an IIR digital filter.
If you want to check out the (free) tools, go here:
the Active Crossover Designer web page
I will be coming out with a new release soon that has some minor updates.
Works great!
-Charlie
If you want to check out the (free) tools, go here:
the Active Crossover Designer web page
I will be coming out with a new release soon that has some minor updates.
Works great!
-Charlie
Just updating this thread, since I'm considering a DIY active 2-way PCB for a build.
What's good and available in 2021? I'm European but could import.
What's good and available in 2021? I'm European but could import.
Check this:
FS: PCBs to build an active 2-way crossover, 4th order
I have some PCBs if you are interested.
FS: PCBs to build an active 2-way crossover, 4th order
I have some PCBs if you are interested.
Do you consider SMD parts?
I made prototypes for a 2 discrete crossovers (diamond buffer and FET buffer).
I have PCBs left over if you´re interested. (1$/each plus shipping)
I only documented the diamond buffer version so far:
Discrete crossover, sanity check
Then there is the analogue XO from Nelson Pass:
Analog Crossover Network: LX Mini XO Kit – diyAudio Store
And of course "generic" crossovers with opamps.
Some of these can be had through ebay or similar.
Or a nice 2-way design (opamps too) from TI incl. gerber files:
TIPD134 Analog, Active Crossover Circuit for Two-Way Loudspeakers | TI.com
I am following this thread
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...elf-speakers-wondom-jab5-amp.html#post6700609
I think the Wondom Jab5 has a lot of promise... ADU1701 DSP combined with a 4 channel amp. When configured in "2.1 mode" it would make a nice 3-way active amp set up. 200W + 100W + 100W. Cost is $70 for the 4 channel amp/DSP, $10 for cable kit, and about $35 for a 36V power supply.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...elf-speakers-wondom-jab5-amp.html#post6700609
I think the Wondom Jab5 has a lot of promise... ADU1701 DSP combined with a 4 channel amp. When configured in "2.1 mode" it would make a nice 3-way active amp set up. 200W + 100W + 100W. Cost is $70 for the 4 channel amp/DSP, $10 for cable kit, and about $35 for a 36V power supply.
I have one of these
Raspberry Pi Expansion Board
To go on a Pi 3b
you can use Charlie's ACD tools above to generate the filters for ecasound over ALSA on linux.
On my (very soon) todo list.
Raspberry Pi Expansion Board
To go on a Pi 3b
you can use Charlie's ACD tools above to generate the filters for ecasound over ALSA on linux.
On my (very soon) todo list.
I used DCX2496 in my active setup along with 4 x MyREF for a few years, but it has been de-commissioned a couple of years ago to keep things simple. Then I looked at analog designs but now I am leaning towards miniDSP 2x4 HD. The analog board from xkitz.com seems to have very good specs too.
Linkwitz-Riley 2-Way Active Crossover, Fully Assembled [XOVER-2] – Xkitz Electronics
Linkwitz-Riley 2-Way Active Crossover, Fully Assembled [XOVER-2] – Xkitz Electronics