Recommended "audiophile" speaker design at $500-1000 in parts (excl. cabinets)?
Hello, fellow audio enthusiasts! My strive for ever-better music reproduction led me to a point when I'm interested in the level of sound quality that I can't realistically afford at retail. So I'm looking for a DIY design and I would be very glad to hear any recommendations in the target price range ($500-1000 in parts, without the cabinets). And by a "design" I don't mean a full kit; just build plans + easily obtainable parts as of now.
I have a small room, 20 meters sq. (215 ft. sq.). I don't have a preference as for bookshelf vs. floor-standers. I like the look of floorstanders and have the space, but if the speaker's F3 is above 35 Hz then I don't see the point in making it floor-standing since it requires a subwoofer anyway. I can't pull the speakers away from the front wall far enough, 80 cm between the front baffle and the wall max. (OK, maybe 90 cm if it's worth it!). I suppose this makes any open baffle designs unviable?
Basically, I'm looking for the best sound quality, clarity, imaging/soundstage and listener engagement possible in the price range. Which designs would you recommend for my shortlist?
P. S. A simple cabinet design (no odd shapes and curves) is a plus, but not a strict requirement.
Hello, fellow audio enthusiasts! My strive for ever-better music reproduction led me to a point when I'm interested in the level of sound quality that I can't realistically afford at retail. So I'm looking for a DIY design and I would be very glad to hear any recommendations in the target price range ($500-1000 in parts, without the cabinets). And by a "design" I don't mean a full kit; just build plans + easily obtainable parts as of now.
I have a small room, 20 meters sq. (215 ft. sq.). I don't have a preference as for bookshelf vs. floor-standers. I like the look of floorstanders and have the space, but if the speaker's F3 is above 35 Hz then I don't see the point in making it floor-standing since it requires a subwoofer anyway. I can't pull the speakers away from the front wall far enough, 80 cm between the front baffle and the wall max. (OK, maybe 90 cm if it's worth it!). I suppose this makes any open baffle designs unviable?
Basically, I'm looking for the best sound quality, clarity, imaging/soundstage and listener engagement possible in the price range. Which designs would you recommend for my shortlist?
P. S. A simple cabinet design (no odd shapes and curves) is a plus, but not a strict requirement.
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hello there
i read your post and had to tell you this
i too have a small room and last build was rival acoustics r176-cw3-08 mid/ woofer and scan speak d2905/950000 tweeter sealed in about .6 cuft. this was to limit the bass as a sub would fillin. to my shock these modest 2 ways will play a 22hz test track in my small room.
people who come over and listen think a sub is playing
xover was designed on xsim
these are the best woofers i have ever seen
i read your post and had to tell you this
i too have a small room and last build was rival acoustics r176-cw3-08 mid/ woofer and scan speak d2905/950000 tweeter sealed in about .6 cuft. this was to limit the bass as a sub would fillin. to my shock these modest 2 ways will play a 22hz test track in my small room.
people who come over and listen think a sub is playing
xover was designed on xsim
these are the best woofers i have ever seen
If you want to investigate whether shaped baffles/cabinets are worth it here is a post by Floyd Toole that discusses it a little.
Earl Geddes researched it and determined human perception of diffraction is non-linear, meaning you hear it at louder listening levels. When you reconcile Toole and Geddes a shaped baffle is better but you might not derive a benefit unless you listen at loud playback levels. Further, your room reflections may mask diffraction to such an extent that you may never hear it. It all just kind of depends.
Earl Geddes researched it and determined human perception of diffraction is non-linear, meaning you hear it at louder listening levels. When you reconcile Toole and Geddes a shaped baffle is better but you might not derive a benefit unless you listen at loud playback levels. Further, your room reflections may mask diffraction to such an extent that you may never hear it. It all just kind of depends.
The more you quote Toole, the more it shows where his research was coming from and headed for. Broadscale quoting just doesn't have context.
Humble Homemade Hifi - Archive
Zaph|Audio
Paul Carmody's DIY Speaker Pages - DIY Speaker Links
Speaker Design Works
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
http://www.speakerbuilding.com/
http://www.rjbaudio.com/projects.html
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/myloudspeakers.html
Zaph|Audio
Paul Carmody's DIY Speaker Pages - DIY Speaker Links
Speaker Design Works
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
http://www.speakerbuilding.com/
http://www.rjbaudio.com/projects.html
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/myloudspeakers.html
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The best build plans are not free. Nor should they be. The person who designed the speaker with its crossovers, cabinet details, etc., is entitled to receive some payment for his time and effort.
And that is usually accomplished by arranging for a parts supplier, like Meniscus Audio, Madisound, Part Express, etc. to sell a kit with the plans and parts included together. The supplier then pays a fee back to the designer for his contribution.
In Europe there are some other suppliers as well as the ones mentioned above from the US. And Troels Gravesen has an extensive range of designs that are offered by Jenzen.
You might find a few designs that are completely open with no fee required. But by and far the best designs are only available as kits and you should expect to pay something to the designer as part of your purchase.
Some good suggestions here. I don't know if it will fit the budget, but labour through the Elsinore thread on here; the design is also purposely free.
To be honest, there are very very few diy designs that looks interesting, allmost all designs are poor copies of commercial speakers, but a small room means near nearfield listening so i guess seas diy kit kingroy4 could do very well
I'd also recomend the Elsinore's.. EXCEPT that they are quite deep already and do need some space behind the cabinets (..though 2 1/2 feet behind the cabinets might do it).
Considering your home (though they may be too expensive):
From the Ukraine:
2 way systems | HiFiCompass
Considering your home (though they may be too expensive):
From the Ukraine:
2 way systems | HiFiCompass
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You have no real basis for that statement. The fact is that at some point all speakers are alike. One or more drivers mounted on a baffle that is the front of a box with a crossover inside. That's the same whether they are commercial or independent designs intended for DIY builders.
The key to performance is driver selection, crossover design, and box design. And there are multiple independent designers who are just as capable, and very possibly more so, than the people who design commercial speakers. The independents have much more freedom to choose the best drivers and other components for their designs than people working for commercial speaker manufacturers who have various corporate constraints placed on them.
Five of the top designers have produced an extremely wide variety of kits for various needs, room sizes, and applications. There may be others who have created excellent designs as well, but these five top the list in my opinion:
Jeff Bagby
Curt Campbell and Jim Holtz
Paul Carmody
Troels Gravesen
Dennis Murphy
At 1/10 the cost of a comparable commercial product it's hard to imagine going wrong with a DIY speaker build from any one of these expert independent designers.
John Krutke (Zaph Audio) has done a lot of great work, both in designs and in driver testing. It's unfortunate he's no longer active in the community. His designs are definitely a good place to start.
What do you mean by audiophile which is something of an ambiguous term? In the 70s the mainstream of the home audio industry largely replaced assessing home audio hardware in terms of high fidelity (i.e. technical performance) in favour of what might broadly be described as subjective attractiveness as luxury goods. Both are valid objectives but they lead to rather different types of loudspeaker being "the best". The latter group tended to adopt the term audiophile to distinguish themselves from the original high fidelity group. The result was that audiophile became a somewhat pejorative term when used by technically literate older folk although this is increasingly less so among youngsters who often seem to lump all expensive home audio hardware as audiophile regardless of whether it is high fidelity or high end/audiophile.
There is a significant rise in quality through your $500-1000 price range. At the lower end you will struggle to afford a 3 way and so will likely have to wrestle with how to best handle the significant compromises of a 2 way design. At the higher end a 3 way is going to be the default choice for high fidelity but for audiophile you may be looking at single drivers or pretty much anything!
Another important choice to make is whether to use passive or active crossovers. The latter replaced the former for high fidelity designs decades ago for reasons of flexibility and technical performance but passive crossovers are still widely popular among speaker DIY folk. Well implemented passive crossovers are not that far behind well implemented active crossovers but the flexibility of the latter usually leads to designs that cannot be practically implemented with passive crossovers due to mismatches in driver sensitivity, driver offsets, variable slopes, compensating small deviations in the on axis response which may be different in the left and right speaker, etc...
In your position, as best I can understand it, I would either spend $500 with a view to seeing how I got on or seek the most for $1000. For the former I would probably look at something like at a pair of 2 ways with 6.5" woofers and a 1" waveguide in a sealed cabinet to avoid porting issues plus a single modest 10" subwoofer. For the latter given the close proximity to the front wall I would look at a proper on-wall 3 way design with sufficient cone area to reproduce clean transients. Unaware of any existing DIY design (but they may exist) so it would be a self-design which is the main attraction of the hobby for many of us. If you adopt an active crossover the flexibility will significantly reduce the risks in a self design.
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Dennis Murphy BMR.
Jeff Bagby Mandolin 2 MTM
Jeff Bagby Solstice
Zaph Audio SR71
Paul Carmody Swope 3 Way or Tarkus!
All these designs in this budget, none should disappoint and should offer you a lot!
Jeff Bagby Mandolin 2 MTM
Jeff Bagby Solstice
Zaph Audio SR71
Paul Carmody Swope 3 Way or Tarkus!
All these designs in this budget, none should disappoint and should offer you a lot!
Check out Alex's (donhighend) page. The speakers are of a very high standard and all plans are available for free.
Eigene Entwicklungen – Donhighend Audio
Given the size of your room, I would take a closer look at the Italian stallion. Almost unbelievable what this speaker can do.
Italian Stallion – Donhighend Audio
The Lewis from Gazza would also be very interesting and suitable for your room. It even stays under your budget, but it sounds awesome.
Pegelfeste lineare TQWT mit 30Hz Tiefgang und gutem Abstrahlverhalten - gazza-diy-audio.de
Unfortunately, all pages are in German, but the important information should be clearly visible.
Eigene Entwicklungen – Donhighend Audio
Given the size of your room, I would take a closer look at the Italian stallion. Almost unbelievable what this speaker can do.
Italian Stallion – Donhighend Audio
The Lewis from Gazza would also be very interesting and suitable for your room. It even stays under your budget, but it sounds awesome.
Pegelfeste lineare TQWT mit 30Hz Tiefgang und gutem Abstrahlverhalten - gazza-diy-audio.de
Unfortunately, all pages are in German, but the important information should be clearly visible.
I would have a look at the Speaker Design Works Statement Monitor by Jim Holtz and Curt Campbell.
Statements_Monitor
F3 stated at 34hz, three way with an open back mid for imaging and has a crossover that can be implemented with a switch for near and far from the rear wall. Best of all the BOM is around $750 for the pair.
Or if you want a floorstander then the Troels Gravesen Discovery 861 is also worth a look. The level 2 with drivers should be in budget with shipping and taxes just.
Discovery-861
Statements_Monitor
F3 stated at 34hz, three way with an open back mid for imaging and has a crossover that can be implemented with a switch for near and far from the rear wall. Best of all the BOM is around $750 for the pair.
Or if you want a floorstander then the Troels Gravesen Discovery 861 is also worth a look. The level 2 with drivers should be in budget with shipping and taxes just.
Discovery-861
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no? then just look around you
just because someone has done tones of kits does not mean they are very interesting or very good, not in my book at least
Thank you all very much for your comments and pointers. I have looked at the designs from Zaph Audio, Paul Carmody, speakerdesignworks.com (Jim Holtz / Curt Campbell), Troels Gravesen, at least some of the Jeff Bagby's works. I don't think I've discovered Dennis Murphy yet, along with some other of the suggested sources.
My main concern is that I have no idea which kits/designs sound better. For example, I used to think that a good 3-way is always better than a good two-way, but I see quite a few 2-way and 2.5-way kits in the $750-1500 range with seemingly good reviews (the latest example being Selah Audio Purezza measured very favorably by Erin - which, unfortunately, are outside of my budget at $1500/pair in a barebones kit).
Let me also clarify that I have nothing against purchasing a pre-made kit incl. build plans with a fee going to the creator.
My main concern is that I have no idea which kits/designs sound better. For example, I used to think that a good 3-way is always better than a good two-way, but I see quite a few 2-way and 2.5-way kits in the $750-1500 range with seemingly good reviews (the latest example being Selah Audio Purezza measured very favorably by Erin - which, unfortunately, are outside of my budget at $1500/pair in a barebones kit).
Let me also clarify that I have nothing against purchasing a pre-made kit incl. build plans with a fee going to the creator.
I agree, it's very ambiguous which is why I put it in quotes. In my mind this word doesn't have a negative connotation, although it's true that it is often used by technically illiterate people with more money than common sense.
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First you have to define what better means to you. Does it mean high fidelity in the neutral, accurate, studio monitor sense or attractive in the audiophile sense?
What criteria are those judging expensive 2 ways using? Is it the same as that they would use for a larger 3 way? Would it survive a blind test? Is it high fidelity or high end?
If we consider the example of the expensive 2 way that is beyond your budget. Is +/- 3dB on axis in line with the price asked? Is the clean SPL anywhere close to being sufficient for delivering clean transients at standard levels in a non-booming room? Etc...
A competently designed $1000 3 way using adequately sized standard range drivers (e.g. 2 x 8" woofer, 4-5" midrange, 1" tweeter in waveguide) playing music at standard levels in a non-booming room will outperform your expensive 2 way. The reason is not because the drivers are high quality but because standard quality drivers that remain within their comfortable operating region in terms frequency range and SPL will not misbehave and distort audibly. Expensive high quality drivers that are pushed to operate over too wide a frequency range and at too high an SPL on the other hand will.
Of course adequately sized high quality drivers would be better again but if the choice is between adequately sized standard range drivers or inadequately sized expensive drivers go for the former if you value high fidelity and, perhaps, the latter if you value audiophile credibility.