Hello everyone,
I currently store my records on the wall behind the speakers, about 3.5 to 4 feet. Is it ok, or should they be moved somewhere else and my equipment rack placed between the speakers? When I look at pictures of other high end rooms I see a little bit of everything, but more often than not, there is generally either the eq rack or nothing at all. I would experiment myself if it was easier, but that's a lot of work if there was hardly any benefit. My imaging depth does extend right up to the record storage but with a bump out on the wall behind the right channel, I wasn't sure if the records were actually helping making the back wall 'flatter' as far as the speakers were concerned or hurting.
If I put the equipment behind the speakers, my speaker collection will be placed to the left along the wall where the rack currently is.
What do you think - keep it or move it?
I currently store my records on the wall behind the speakers, about 3.5 to 4 feet. Is it ok, or should they be moved somewhere else and my equipment rack placed between the speakers? When I look at pictures of other high end rooms I see a little bit of everything, but more often than not, there is generally either the eq rack or nothing at all. I would experiment myself if it was easier, but that's a lot of work if there was hardly any benefit. My imaging depth does extend right up to the record storage but with a bump out on the wall behind the right channel, I wasn't sure if the records were actually helping making the back wall 'flatter' as far as the speakers were concerned or hurting.
If I put the equipment behind the speakers, my speaker collection will be placed to the left along the wall where the rack currently is.
What do you think - keep it or move it?
If you hate bass, you surely have built a system to kill it. Speakers away from the wall to eliminate the 3 db bass gain. Dirty surface on the backing wall, causing damping of many frequencies. Your speakers have BSC (baffle step correction, bass boost for front of stage speakers) built in the crossover? I see a Sinatra cover; crooner era tracks didn't have a lot of bass. Maybe you don't need it. I listen to classical, piano, & organ besides big band & rock tracks, and do.
I've got my record racks on the side and back walls where the bumpy surface helps kill standing waves. I also have bookshelves on the side walls, urethane stuffed furniture, two organs with benches. My speakers are backed into a 3.7 m wide hard wall of 1" plaster. My room chart of white noise shows a 9 db peak at 250 & 500 hz, a 6 db peak @ 150 hz, a 6 db hole at 100 hz. 40 hz and 25 hz are not nearly as low as the speaker manufacturer chart, indicating perhaps some gain from the 1" thick plaster backing wall below 54 hz. Another test with speaker located a meter from the wall get a 3 db dip @ 40 & 50 hz.
I did my white noise recording with a cardioid mike 2 m from the speaker front (so I don't need omni mike) and audacity free software on a Linux PC. One tip, increase sample size from the default 1000 of audacity to see some bass. REW software etc gate the recording (time limit) to eliminate the room response so they expect the mike to be stuck 1m or less from the speaker. Omni is required there to not lose the bass. Close mike & gating tells you about the speaker, but not the room. I am interested in the room response, that is how I listen to the speakers: about 3.5 m away.
So download some free audacity, buy a $25 1" cardioid mike (farnell/newark CM-1800) or a $100 parts-express or behringer omni mike. Warning, USB mikes can have PC op system timing delays that mess up time alignment studies. I used a $50 used 8 input mixer to provide phantom power to the mike through XLR cable. I used a dual 1/4 phone plug to 1/8" stereo phone plug cable to run mixer out to the blue input (line level) of the PC. I used a camera stand for a mike stand. I don't recommend super-cardioid mikes, the ubiquitous SM-58 & 57 roll off below 200 hz and is supposed to be 4" from the mouth of the singer. If your PC lacks blue pink & green 1/8 jacks You'll have to buy a USB sound interface. More $$$.
Do a study of what you've got, then try improvements or changes. You might locate speakers (on wheels?) against a flat side wall for a second trial instead of moving the bookcase first thing. Moving record rack is a lot of work.
Nice ship models. You ex-navy? I'd like a model of a 1980 Oshkosh HET with M60 tank since I coordinated those in my MATO office days.
I've got my record racks on the side and back walls where the bumpy surface helps kill standing waves. I also have bookshelves on the side walls, urethane stuffed furniture, two organs with benches. My speakers are backed into a 3.7 m wide hard wall of 1" plaster. My room chart of white noise shows a 9 db peak at 250 & 500 hz, a 6 db peak @ 150 hz, a 6 db hole at 100 hz. 40 hz and 25 hz are not nearly as low as the speaker manufacturer chart, indicating perhaps some gain from the 1" thick plaster backing wall below 54 hz. Another test with speaker located a meter from the wall get a 3 db dip @ 40 & 50 hz.
I did my white noise recording with a cardioid mike 2 m from the speaker front (so I don't need omni mike) and audacity free software on a Linux PC. One tip, increase sample size from the default 1000 of audacity to see some bass. REW software etc gate the recording (time limit) to eliminate the room response so they expect the mike to be stuck 1m or less from the speaker. Omni is required there to not lose the bass. Close mike & gating tells you about the speaker, but not the room. I am interested in the room response, that is how I listen to the speakers: about 3.5 m away.
So download some free audacity, buy a $25 1" cardioid mike (farnell/newark CM-1800) or a $100 parts-express or behringer omni mike. Warning, USB mikes can have PC op system timing delays that mess up time alignment studies. I used a $50 used 8 input mixer to provide phantom power to the mike through XLR cable. I used a dual 1/4 phone plug to 1/8" stereo phone plug cable to run mixer out to the blue input (line level) of the PC. I used a camera stand for a mike stand. I don't recommend super-cardioid mikes, the ubiquitous SM-58 & 57 roll off below 200 hz and is supposed to be 4" from the mouth of the singer. If your PC lacks blue pink & green 1/8 jacks You'll have to buy a USB sound interface. More $$$.
Do a study of what you've got, then try improvements or changes. You might locate speakers (on wheels?) against a flat side wall for a second trial instead of moving the bookcase first thing. Moving record rack is a lot of work.
Nice ship models. You ex-navy? I'd like a model of a 1980 Oshkosh HET with M60 tank since I coordinated those in my MATO office days.
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I listen to a lot of the same music you do, the vast majority of my collection is rock of some kind. Those are open baffle speakers so they are supposed to be some distance from the front wall, and yes, most of my speakers have BSC. That record storage system could certainly be a bass trap....I don't know, but I have no major complaints about the bass quantity as it is currently. The room is actually my basement, so there is no useful back wall, relative to the seating position. Perhaps that helps a bit in regards to the bass quantity and quality. One thing that bothers me is the bump out on the wall behind the right channel - being some 16" deep that would have an effect on the sound between the left and right channels.
I do have the Dayton Omni-Mic system that I can use for measurements. I have used it before, but I am under the impression that under 200hz the measurements are dominated by the room. I mostly use it to help speaker positioning cause I can see when the measurements at least flatten out on screen.
No, not a navy man, just a Star Wars fan. I've seen some models of those HETs......$$$$
I do have the Dayton Omni-Mic system that I can use for measurements. I have used it before, but I am under the impression that under 200hz the measurements are dominated by the room. I mostly use it to help speaker positioning cause I can see when the measurements at least flatten out on screen.
No, not a navy man, just a Star Wars fan. I've seen some models of those HETs......$$$$
This shows that I know nothing about Open Baffle speakers. I had one about 2 weeks in 1970 until I installed the 6"x9" car speaker in a cardboard box to simulate the car dashboard it was designed to be installed in. Much better. Bass reflex.
Try some REW solfware with your Dayton mike and a computer, Is the best advice I can give. It is a free download for windows, mac, or linux. If you gate the measurement short & put the mike 1 m from speaker the mike doesn't hear the room. If you don't gate the measurement the mike measures the room. I used audacity & white noise because I was interested in what the room was doing. (Also didn't know how to make REW install). My speakers were purchased so the speaker response was known from the datasheet.
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I'll definitely do some tests and see how the measurements look. What do you think about the records being there regarding soundstaging and imaging? Helpful or hurtful? Yes, I do get wall to wall staging if that is what is on the recording, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be noticeably better. The depth of imaging stops at the wall of records. Never feels like it goes deeper, but then again, maybe it wouldn't if there was a solid wall there either.
The rough surface helps break up standing waves. In my case, with bass reflex speakers, standing waves in the 30-50 hz region seem to help the bass, compared to the test setup the manufacturer uses. I have a 14' long flat wall behind the speakers, 1" thick plaster over lathe. My room dimensions may be different than yours, 14' w, 11' h, 22' long. I have record racks, bookcases, organs & urethane foam furniture on my side & back walls, which help break up standing waves. Also acoustic tile ceiling & carpet on the floor.
How open baffle speakers produce any bass is a complete mystery to me.
In your case, if there is a hard wall to the right just out of the picture, or up to 30' away, you could run two tests with REW. One, as is. Other, speakers 6' apart on the left wall firing at the right wall. If the second result is flatter, you could then think about moving the record rack so the speakers back into a flat hard wall.
Imaging discussions leave me cold. I tried closing my eyes at the symphony in the park. Open air, orchestra backed into the Ohio river. Audience was on grass risers, me about 150' away. I couldn't tell whether the violins were on the left or right, or the double basses, or trombones. Similar results in my music room from low distortion speakers. On old Beatles & Beach boys albums, the singers were on the left & the instruments were on the right. That I can hear. I'm not deaf, hearing goes to 14 khz before fading under the whistles of tinitus.
How open baffle speakers produce any bass is a complete mystery to me.
In your case, if there is a hard wall to the right just out of the picture, or up to 30' away, you could run two tests with REW. One, as is. Other, speakers 6' apart on the left wall firing at the right wall. If the second result is flatter, you could then think about moving the record rack so the speakers back into a flat hard wall.
Imaging discussions leave me cold. I tried closing my eyes at the symphony in the park. Open air, orchestra backed into the Ohio river. Audience was on grass risers, me about 150' away. I couldn't tell whether the violins were on the left or right, or the double basses, or trombones. Similar results in my music room from low distortion speakers. On old Beatles & Beach boys albums, the singers were on the left & the instruments were on the right. That I can hear. I'm not deaf, hearing goes to 14 khz before fading under the whistles of tinitus.
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