I've shared this on the Klipsch Community general Forum and hoping I'd also get some collaborative help and feedback here. Wasn't sure where on which forum to post this as it covers a multitude of inquiries but most importantly setting up the system I have in mind.
Reaching out for help from anyone in the community with knowledge, advice and expertise when installing a system in a commercial restaurant space. Writing this in a beginner-friendly tone because that is where I am now. I've been a lurker taking notes who has finally convinced a friend to splurge on a sound system that will be an exciting feature of his restaurant that I'm collaborating on. A high-efficiency horn-loaded system powered by SET tube amplifiers is the path I've chosen to approach this project.
The restaurant's build is almost complete, with interior finishings currently being applied. I've attached images of the floor plan and sections of the space with coloured markings for the whereabouts of the D.J. booth and speaker placement proposal for anyone interested in size and layout (yellow: booth, pink: speakers). A key with materials used is also included - there isn't much leeway to apply acoustic treatment. Maybe pyramid foam within the waffle spacing of the concrete ceiling. I also feel like the large floor to ceiling windows and wall tiles would create a lot of reflections, especially with how I'm planning to orient the speakers. I have suggested adding thick drapes to help remedy this for the owners, and there would be a few carpet art pieces hung that help in absorption as well.
I'm proposing 2 budget options:
Option 1 / Big-Budget Features:
Option 2 / Small Budget differentials:
There are a few missing puzzle pieces in the system due to my lack of experience, and I was hoping that anyone could kindly assist me. Looking for a receiver that will take the 3 different sources (in-house D.J. mixer output, DAC-Streamer Spotify output & guest D.J.'s controller output) and send the output signal to all the amplifiers powering the speakers. Would home theatre A.V. receivers work? I've checked the backplate of most A.V. receiver products, and they all have 'surround', 'front', 'center' labels for the different speaker outputs. I'm worried about whether each pair of speakers would get other signals - which wouldn't work in my application.
I've also done my best to map out how the sound system component network would work with a resident D.J. system in a booth, guest D.J. with an external mixer, and DAC for regular musical playlist programming when there's no D.J. performing.
Would love to hear everyone's advice and thoughts on how I've designed the proposed system and mapped it out. I'm not sure if I've got the number of speakers right - it's tricky since where I'm located doesn't have proper HiFi audio dealers in the country - I can't test any components. The purchasing decision must be made based on faith and expertise. As you now learned, a lot would be riding on this
This project aims to bring a hi-fi experience to a population and culture that is not exposed to it and be inclusive in presenting it the best way possible with the budgets at hand.
Your input would be greatly appreciated!
P.S. Any thoughts of anyone who had listened to the active Superwax mini by Pitt & Giblin from Australia compared to Hersey's or other speakers from the heritage line-up?
Reaching out for help from anyone in the community with knowledge, advice and expertise when installing a system in a commercial restaurant space. Writing this in a beginner-friendly tone because that is where I am now. I've been a lurker taking notes who has finally convinced a friend to splurge on a sound system that will be an exciting feature of his restaurant that I'm collaborating on. A high-efficiency horn-loaded system powered by SET tube amplifiers is the path I've chosen to approach this project.
The restaurant's build is almost complete, with interior finishings currently being applied. I've attached images of the floor plan and sections of the space with coloured markings for the whereabouts of the D.J. booth and speaker placement proposal for anyone interested in size and layout (yellow: booth, pink: speakers). A key with materials used is also included - there isn't much leeway to apply acoustic treatment. Maybe pyramid foam within the waffle spacing of the concrete ceiling. I also feel like the large floor to ceiling windows and wall tiles would create a lot of reflections, especially with how I'm planning to orient the speakers. I have suggested adding thick drapes to help remedy this for the owners, and there would be a few carpet art pieces hung that help in absorption as well.
I'm proposing 2 budget options:
Option 1 / Big-Budget Features:
- 2-3x pairs of Klipsch Hersey IVs - suspended or mounted on walls/columns upside down with a tilt angle. The horns would point downwards at the customers and the woofer closer to the ceiling to create a similar low-end response when placed ordinarily in a floor-standing position. The speakers will either be suspended by eye bolts and fender washers hung from a concrete beam waffle structure or mounted on french cleats on the structure's columns. They will be powered by:
- 2-3x Decware Super Zen Triode Amplifier would love to pair the Decware tube amps with the HIVs, but I'm concerned if they have enough oomph to drive the speakers to volume when it's a busy day at the restaurant
- 1x Condesa Carmen in-house analogue D.J. rotary mixer
- 2x Technics SL-1200MK7 Turntables
- 1x DAC/node streamer - undecided [BLUESOUND NODE or the AUDIOPHONICS RASPDAC an option for this budget]
- (DAC connected through USB or wirelessly streamed via Spotify Connect - Streamed via an iPad through a lighting cable to USB adapter or wirelessly through Spotify Connect connected via a node, respectively (streaming via chrome-cast is not an option because of its inability of gapless playback)). I've also heard that the new YAMAHA RX receivers act as streamers for Spotify Connect and other applications.
- Possibility of an independent DAC Schiit Modi 3+ for better sound (as subjective as that is for the setup)
- 1x Receiver to route all the incoming signal sources to the designated amplifiers and speakers - Need help in this department.
Option 2 / Small Budget differentials:
- 3-4x Klipsch RP-600M II - also considering fitting them upside down with a tilt angle. The horns point downwards at the customers and the woofer closer to the ceiling to create a similar low-end response when placed ordinarily in a floor-standing position. But the 600 IIs would be mounted on the walls/columns versus being suspended from the ceiling.
- 3-4x Reisong A10 - I heard great things & felt they'd be a good fit for the more budget friendlier option, but I'm concerned if they have enough oomph like the Decware Zen triodes to drive the speaker in a busy day
- 1x Vaira Instruments RD20 in-house analogue D.J. rotary mixer
There are a few missing puzzle pieces in the system due to my lack of experience, and I was hoping that anyone could kindly assist me. Looking for a receiver that will take the 3 different sources (in-house D.J. mixer output, DAC-Streamer Spotify output & guest D.J.'s controller output) and send the output signal to all the amplifiers powering the speakers. Would home theatre A.V. receivers work? I've checked the backplate of most A.V. receiver products, and they all have 'surround', 'front', 'center' labels for the different speaker outputs. I'm worried about whether each pair of speakers would get other signals - which wouldn't work in my application.
I've also done my best to map out how the sound system component network would work with a resident D.J. system in a booth, guest D.J. with an external mixer, and DAC for regular musical playlist programming when there's no D.J. performing.
Would love to hear everyone's advice and thoughts on how I've designed the proposed system and mapped it out. I'm not sure if I've got the number of speakers right - it's tricky since where I'm located doesn't have proper HiFi audio dealers in the country - I can't test any components. The purchasing decision must be made based on faith and expertise. As you now learned, a lot would be riding on this
This project aims to bring a hi-fi experience to a population and culture that is not exposed to it and be inclusive in presenting it the best way possible with the budgets at hand.
Your input would be greatly appreciated!
P.S. Any thoughts of anyone who had listened to the active Superwax mini by Pitt & Giblin from Australia compared to Hersey's or other speakers from the heritage line-up?
Attachments
Have you considered having a sound system professional come in and assess your situation and needs and make recommendations? My opinion only, but I think it would be money well spent. Especially when you call yourself a beginner.
You have a DJ but no dance floor? What is the goal of this restaurant? Will people be sitting at their tables just actively listening and paying attention to the DJ? One thing I notice with my own restaurant habits in mind, where can one sit to get away from the music? I mean if I want to have a conversation over dinner.
Where will servers place and pick up their orders? You don't want loud speakers blasting that area, they won't be able to hear. In my experience with ceiling speaker installations in restaurants and bars, we always notch down the speakers that serve the waitress stations.
Tube amps are great and all, but in a commercial situation, do you really want to saddle them with maintenance? Will they know when it needs a tube? And where to get one?
You have a DJ but no dance floor? What is the goal of this restaurant? Will people be sitting at their tables just actively listening and paying attention to the DJ? One thing I notice with my own restaurant habits in mind, where can one sit to get away from the music? I mean if I want to have a conversation over dinner.
Where will servers place and pick up their orders? You don't want loud speakers blasting that area, they won't be able to hear. In my experience with ceiling speaker installations in restaurants and bars, we always notch down the speakers that serve the waitress stations.
Tube amps are great and all, but in a commercial situation, do you really want to saddle them with maintenance? Will they know when it needs a tube? And where to get one?
I'm going to be brutally honest... I don't think this makes much sense.
First thing is... what kind of restaurant has a DJ booth? Will this be a mixed use venue with plans to host wedding receptions? If not I'm not sure it makes business sense to unnecessarily consume space that could be used for more paying customers.
Next is the speaker locations. There is no getting a stereo image to all seating positions in a venue like this so right away the whole idea of "hifi" sound is a bit misguided. I can't tell if you were going for that or not but the indicated speaker locations seem to present some conflicting coverage areas, the worst thing you can do for intelligibility is generate multiple different arrival times at listening positions from multiple different speakers. In what can be a noisy environment to begin with the sound system would just add to that and further degrade the customer experience. I'm not a fan of loud restaurants.
A consumer AVR has no business in a professional environment, it may be powered on 24/7 and these things are simply not built for that duty cycle. Plus it has all kinds of features you don't need and lacks some you do. What you really need is a zone controller, these are purpose built for applications just like this with features like remote volume control and source selection for each zone and the ability to direct different sources to each zone.
Let be honest, the source that will be most used is the streaming service and it doesn't matter what the genre is that results in heavily compressed music. That is both good and bad, it's bad in that it eliminates one of the best things about high rez music... dynamic range, but in a noisy environment like a restaurant if the background music isn't crushed up against a limiter most of it won't be audible over the din of people talking.
First thing is... what kind of restaurant has a DJ booth? Will this be a mixed use venue with plans to host wedding receptions? If not I'm not sure it makes business sense to unnecessarily consume space that could be used for more paying customers.
Next is the speaker locations. There is no getting a stereo image to all seating positions in a venue like this so right away the whole idea of "hifi" sound is a bit misguided. I can't tell if you were going for that or not but the indicated speaker locations seem to present some conflicting coverage areas, the worst thing you can do for intelligibility is generate multiple different arrival times at listening positions from multiple different speakers. In what can be a noisy environment to begin with the sound system would just add to that and further degrade the customer experience. I'm not a fan of loud restaurants.
A consumer AVR has no business in a professional environment, it may be powered on 24/7 and these things are simply not built for that duty cycle. Plus it has all kinds of features you don't need and lacks some you do. What you really need is a zone controller, these are purpose built for applications just like this with features like remote volume control and source selection for each zone and the ability to direct different sources to each zone.
Let be honest, the source that will be most used is the streaming service and it doesn't matter what the genre is that results in heavily compressed music. That is both good and bad, it's bad in that it eliminates one of the best things about high rez music... dynamic range, but in a noisy environment like a restaurant if the background music isn't crushed up against a limiter most of it won't be audible over the din of people talking.
Good point about stereo imaging. A local tavern I dine at occasionally, has a house stereo, and one speaker is over by the front wall near the entry, and the other is by the pool table. When I sit at my usual table, I hear the left channel. As someone in the music business I find it mildly interesting to hear only half the track. But only for a short time. When I did restaurant systems I always put the material in mono, for that reason. Same thing when doing bar band sound. The audience does not all gather right at the stereo sweet spot and listen, they are spread around the club at tables, or dancing and drinking or otherwise trying to connect with the a potential date. And frankly they don't care about stereo separation. I mix in mono.
The issue with having a local sound system professional assess the situation is that they're attached to event management companies and are only limited to and familiar with their own basic commercial PA systems. I had spoken to a professional before with what I had in mind but they aren't familiar nor did they get it. So there's incompetence when it comes to this scope of work as it's purely functional to what they're trying to sell you.
The DJ booth corner is also where the record library would be located, DJ booth is purely there for curating. the restaurant is not going to be multipurpose as some have suggested, purely a dining experience and not a party with blasting volume levels. The purpose of the system is to have a pleasant listening experience. The space designated for the booth and records was originally intended as a waiting area but the owners scratched that and felt this gives the space character and identity to what it's about.
The idea is inspired by Jazz Kissa listening bars in Japan as well as the growing movement of hifi sound now happening at cafes and restaurants in Europe and the States that have already been established in f&b and commercial stores in South East Asia.
Maintenance won't be an issue and the tubes would readily be changed whenever required. You'd be surprised with tube amp application, Public Records in NYC has a fine system designed by Devon Turnbull being driven by SET tubes. And the same for many others I've come across by. What I'm proposing has successfully been implemented in many restaurants before and isn't something new. It's just that the products and experts with regard to this application don't exist here.
Thanks for the zone controller suggestion!
You'd be surprised there are a lot of restaurants with DJ booths or a record station for curation purposes. The 'Listening bar' culture has been around for a while and is actually a growing trend. It's not a dancefloor or multipurpose environment but just a restaurant with good sound, I've been to a handful they do exist.
Good point on stereo imaging. The majority of the seating area would get a stereo image in the configuration proposed. With the directionality of the speakers pointing parallel with the seating arrangement going down the length of the restaurant, sorry if the DIY uploaded colour blotches are confusing! The communal table area would be the only location where that might be an issue.
Spotify made an announcement that they'll be providing lossless streaming like Tidal which answers you're compressed sound inquiry.
I wish we had HiFi audio dealers here just so I test these things out, it's just a tricky situation.
I appreciate all the constructive feedback.
That's what I'm worried about due to the large size of the space. With a smaller more intimate room - execution would be simpler with a stereo system to experience what I have in mind.
Neither of those Klipsch models appears to have any form of rigging points (at least from the quick glance I've had).
Do not even THINK about mounting anything overhead that does not have proper attachment points engineered into it.
Do not even THINK about coming up with your own rigging scheme unless you have the appropriate competency to guarantee (and I mean that in the qualified & insured sense) that it won't come down and maim or kill someone.
Do not even THINK about mounting anything overhead that does not have proper attachment points engineered into it.
Do not even THINK about coming up with your own rigging scheme unless you have the appropriate competency to guarantee (and I mean that in the qualified & insured sense) that it won't come down and maim or kill someone.
That's not a conventional setup for sure, but it may be fun. I understand that you want to build "something different" to catch the customers attention, so I fully understand your motivation about not hiring a local sound system professional. The professionals you need do exists, but they are a different kind and the expense would be on a order of magnitude higher, so a DIY approach with home Hi-Fi gear (as you propose) is worth a try. I've done this a few times and there are pitfalls I will now try to avoid:
1. You realistically have only one shot at placing the speaker cables, because any later rework would be expensive or impossible. Smaller speakers are easier to place, and you don't really need the very low frequencies - they may be detrimental if you cannot place acoustic treatment on the room. If you manage to find a good speaker placement (not easy), you are golden already. Any later change on the electronics, if needed, will be way easier and quite inexpensive compared to moving the speakers or reworking the wiring. So, focus on speaker placement first.
2. The only controls the customer want are a volume knob and a on/off switch. They may want a zone control to exclude individual speakers, but I rarely see them used (if ever) after the initial setting. There is just no time to fiddle with the audio systems on a busy venue. The on/off swith may even be connected to the venue automation system, to remove the last manual action.
3. Conversely, the restourant manager almost never knows that it needs a wireless microphone receiver, or at least a easy way to plug it in. It is best to design it from the start, so you will be ready when they ask for it in a hurry.
4. The mono/stereo choice is not important because home amplifiers are stereo systems (you don't have any extra expense for stereo) and you always have the option to put the source in mono mode. To my experience the system usually sounds better in mono, but you will just try both options at the final setup.
5. I don't see issues using tube amplifiers. Just be sure to have them prominently displayed, because the main advantage on this context is the visual effect. The only caveat is to use tube amplifiers that are meant for permanent service and are equipped with readily available tubes. Most budget amplifiers from China aren't designed to stay on 16h/day. The main filter capacitor may have an excessive capacitance value or be placed in a hotspot, so it may fail or cause premature wear of power and rectifier tubes. This is a design issue, not a tube technology limitation. Some of my vintage tube amplifiers from the '50, that were designed for heawy duty theater use, are good as new after just a quick capacitor and tube replacement - some of them still have the original power tubes after decades of use, with plenty of emission left.
1. You realistically have only one shot at placing the speaker cables, because any later rework would be expensive or impossible. Smaller speakers are easier to place, and you don't really need the very low frequencies - they may be detrimental if you cannot place acoustic treatment on the room. If you manage to find a good speaker placement (not easy), you are golden already. Any later change on the electronics, if needed, will be way easier and quite inexpensive compared to moving the speakers or reworking the wiring. So, focus on speaker placement first.
2. The only controls the customer want are a volume knob and a on/off switch. They may want a zone control to exclude individual speakers, but I rarely see them used (if ever) after the initial setting. There is just no time to fiddle with the audio systems on a busy venue. The on/off swith may even be connected to the venue automation system, to remove the last manual action.
3. Conversely, the restourant manager almost never knows that it needs a wireless microphone receiver, or at least a easy way to plug it in. It is best to design it from the start, so you will be ready when they ask for it in a hurry.
4. The mono/stereo choice is not important because home amplifiers are stereo systems (you don't have any extra expense for stereo) and you always have the option to put the source in mono mode. To my experience the system usually sounds better in mono, but you will just try both options at the final setup.
5. I don't see issues using tube amplifiers. Just be sure to have them prominently displayed, because the main advantage on this context is the visual effect. The only caveat is to use tube amplifiers that are meant for permanent service and are equipped with readily available tubes. Most budget amplifiers from China aren't designed to stay on 16h/day. The main filter capacitor may have an excessive capacitance value or be placed in a hotspot, so it may fail or cause premature wear of power and rectifier tubes. This is a design issue, not a tube technology limitation. Some of my vintage tube amplifiers from the '50, that were designed for heawy duty theater use, are good as new after just a quick capacitor and tube replacement - some of them still have the original power tubes after decades of use, with plenty of emission left.
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Absolutely true! The liabilities on a commercial venue are staggering. I only use speakers with factory wall mounts. Klipsch and other well known manufacturers have them available for the smaller speakers that can be used as dolby back channels. The electronics must also come with a true declaration of conformity.
It's a cool idea, something I tried to do back in the mid 70s, tho we wanted more of a salon than restaurant. Having spent the intervening decades doing theater, cinema and concert PA, I heartily second the advice on rigging! Be sure it is done right, to code and the manufactures specs. There are some real rigging horror stories and videos.
If I were doing it from scratch I'd use Danley Sound Labs, but that might be far above budget. Good luck with the project and keep us informed!
Yes. Your typical commercial contractor is unlikely to understand what you are trying to do. You might get lucky, but most that I know and have worked with would not understand. What they do understand is wiring, conduit, codes and rigging, so that could be a help.
Yep, if you have speakers in a public space, you'll be asked for a microphone. I recently worked in a theater were the city codes required an override system triggered by the fire alarm. It was safety code, but a real pain in the butt. Your local codes might require that. Don't count on staff knowing how to run the system. In venues I've worked, only real techs understand anything beyond on/off volume. Make it easy to do the basics, like really foolproof.
Yes, start with stereo, go to mono or a blend if you need to. Zones are good.
If I were doing it from scratch I'd use Danley Sound Labs, but that might be far above budget. Good luck with the project and keep us informed!
I've reached out to Klipsch's pro division hopefully they can provide some insight, especially with rigging the speakers safely as that is a priority as some suggested.
1,2 & 3 noted.
For 4. by putting the source in mono mode do you mean it's a receiver/amplifier configurable option or that it's doable by using a converter? Not looking to convert individual source audio files to mono. It sounded simple but when I searched it got a bit complicated.
5. Thanks for the heads-up. That might make a change in direction because of budget constraints for a proper tube amp and look for a low-cost single amp to run the speakers.
Great stuff, appreciate the advice.
The Danley SH50s would've been the dream choice. Maybe for another project in the future!
Will keep you in the loop on progress - I've reached out to a specialist and Klipsch's Pro division for help, especially for rigging.
Thanks for the tips!
The stereo to mono conversion can be done either way: with a hardware converter (very easy to do in a DIY way ) or by enabling a setting on the source. It may be hidden in a submenu: for example, the mono setting on recent Apple iOS devices is on accessibility/hearing/audio-visual/mono audio.
The mono setting also depends on the choice of music. I like to switch my living room system to mono when I use it as background, and I noticed that it sometimes sounds weird when the record has a strong stereo reverb. This doesn't happen with vintage recordings (reverb wasn't a thing at the time), and even with the latest commercial music that has tons of synthetic digital reverb. Perhaps because it has been crafted to work well with smart speakers and portable speakers.
Modern music has to sound OK coming out the damned smart phones.
I am worried you are trying to provide Sound for a Restaurant, a MOST noisy environment, even if people find it "quiet".
It might be so, if compared to other Restaurants, the same way a "quiet" jet engine might be "quiet" ... compared to other jet engines, but not in an absolute way, definitely not compared to a quiet Living Room where those 2W per channel might be adequate , and even so in a most limited way.
But in a Restaurant? .... forget it!!!
Pity the absolute unsuitability for the task will be revealed only on the first open to the public night, might be hidden while you and the owners test it absolutely silent, on an empty room, on a quiet Holiday such as May 1 or January 1st early in the morning, with no traffic on the street.
Meaning: in any realistic setting, any ambient noise will smash any SPL that system may produce in such a huge space.
I guess the system inaudibility (in the Real World) will be a gross liability which will void and null any possible perceived "quality" it might provide.
As an example: some Japanese Audiophiles are in love with their low power triode amplifiers (for good reason), BUT they usually couple them to high efficiency true Horn speakers, not Acoustic Suspension ones which only share the name with a famous 50´s horn loaded speaker maker.
And even so, the "Heresy" model name should ring a bell.
Also remembering Japanese apartments in general are tiny, with tiny Living Rooms.
And Japanese in general are not noisy people at all.
But .... but .... those are Klipsch speakers, they re supposed to be loud, even specs confirm it!!!!
Not really, so much so that long threads exist telling the sad truth, after tons of people realized it.
Such as:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/can-a-klipsch-speaker-actually-meet-its-specs-no-it-cant.2128818/
Not bashing Klipsch at all, simply pointing at it not being as loud as expected, couple that to very low power driving them and a huge space, full of noisy people ... a perfect storm.
Personally, if I loved them as much as you do, and wanted other people to share the experience, which is fine, I would invite a couple or two, not more, to my Living room, to have a cup or coffee or a glass of good Brandy , sit in a comfortable sofa and enjoy.
No talking, just enjoying in silence.
It might be so, if compared to other Restaurants, the same way a "quiet" jet engine might be "quiet" ... compared to other jet engines, but not in an absolute way, definitely not compared to a quiet Living Room where those 2W per channel might be adequate , and even so in a most limited way.
But in a Restaurant? .... forget it!!!
Pity the absolute unsuitability for the task will be revealed only on the first open to the public night, might be hidden while you and the owners test it absolutely silent, on an empty room, on a quiet Holiday such as May 1 or January 1st early in the morning, with no traffic on the street.
Meaning: in any realistic setting, any ambient noise will smash any SPL that system may produce in such a huge space.
I guess the system inaudibility (in the Real World) will be a gross liability which will void and null any possible perceived "quality" it might provide.
As an example: some Japanese Audiophiles are in love with their low power triode amplifiers (for good reason), BUT they usually couple them to high efficiency true Horn speakers, not Acoustic Suspension ones which only share the name with a famous 50´s horn loaded speaker maker.
And even so, the "Heresy" model name should ring a bell.
Also remembering Japanese apartments in general are tiny, with tiny Living Rooms.
And Japanese in general are not noisy people at all.
But .... but .... those are Klipsch speakers, they re supposed to be loud, even specs confirm it!!!!
Not really, so much so that long threads exist telling the sad truth, after tons of people realized it.
Such as:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/can-a-klipsch-speaker-actually-meet-its-specs-no-it-cant.2128818/
Not bashing Klipsch at all, simply pointing at it not being as loud as expected, couple that to very low power driving them and a huge space, full of noisy people ... a perfect storm.
Personally, if I loved them as much as you do, and wanted other people to share the experience, which is fine, I would invite a couple or two, not more, to my Living room, to have a cup or coffee or a glass of good Brandy , sit in a comfortable sofa and enjoy.
No talking, just enjoying in silence.
Wrong kind of speakers IMO. This is a reverberant space so you want to match the speakers dispersion to the area they are intended to cover or use many speakers in a distributed system such that the distance from the source is minimized.
According to the drawing this restourant is not a huge spage, it is rather small instead. On a comparable surface, I got good results with 6 two-way speakers, but a few more would have been useful to even the sound distribution . My concern are the reflection from the perimetral glass (if the blue line is glass). They may blur the sound considerably. People next to the glass walls will hear too much reflected sound, it would be like sitting in a church. On a similar installation, I had to put sound treatment on the ceiling to lower the reverberation to a bearable level. As kipman 725 wrote, the alternative path is to place more speaker, so people will be always next to them. They will hear more clearly, but the overall noise floor of the restourant may rise because you are pumping more acoustical energy on the place and there is not enough damping material to absorb it. You should really ask to be allowed some time to tune the system with the furniture already in place, altough while writing this I'm already smiling because when I think about commercial spaces installations like this one, my mind recalls dreadful memories of 3AM sound tests the day before the opening. But one could always dream. The JMFahey consideration about power is totally in line with my personal experience. It really depends on the kind of place. On a standard Italian restourant of this size, a 100W amplifier (true 100W RMS) is the absolute minimum I would dare to install, and if the music is not so interesting and people decide to speak, this will be insufficient anyways. Other kind of restourants or locations will surely have different requirements, but the Klipsch people you contacted should give you some useful guidelines.
I must admit that I don't understand you design plan drawings at all (external live cooking area? no scullery, single m & F toilets, no acoustical design, etc) I see seating for less than 40, so what is the specific intended 'end use' of this project
I built something like this some years ago originally intended as a multi purpose singles bar/restaurant and when building standards were much more flexible and we found very quickly that system clarity at much lower volumes was a necessity and acoustic treatment (walls and ceiling) was absolutely essential, and that could be easily cleaned (no styrene foam, etc) - we ended up using JBL studio speakers for their clarity at low to medium volumes and very non-liner eq and the occasional 'singles nights' for higher volumes
You need to include the ability to modify the system performance for 'empty' rooms, restaurant dining, crowded rooms, quiet & noisy nights, open windows, snow/wind at access doors, vocal effects, compression, etc etc - you're looking at a pro-audio situation, not hifi at all
I built something like this some years ago originally intended as a multi purpose singles bar/restaurant and when building standards were much more flexible and we found very quickly that system clarity at much lower volumes was a necessity and acoustic treatment (walls and ceiling) was absolutely essential, and that could be easily cleaned (no styrene foam, etc) - we ended up using JBL studio speakers for their clarity at low to medium volumes and very non-liner eq and the occasional 'singles nights' for higher volumes
You need to include the ability to modify the system performance for 'empty' rooms, restaurant dining, crowded rooms, quiet & noisy nights, open windows, snow/wind at access doors, vocal effects, compression, etc etc - you're looking at a pro-audio situation, not hifi at all