Noob first post here, so bear with me!
I'm a composer FYI.
I'm trying my first speaker build as a variation of the lampizator Project 12. A variation based on my studio space and available materials.
The original OB design worries me as I have less than .5m space available behind the speakers, backing onto a big window (with a view that I'd like to keep!!)
I picked up a pair of Kef Ref 103 boxes with damaged tweeters for £25 and have mounted the the Saba tweeters and woofers neatly. (see pics) They have quite a wide baffle and will fit (just).
Also, I've repaired the B200's from the kefs and would like to upcycle these as subs, stacked as a three way.
I'd like to know if this set up is potentially problematic. Particularly the greencones in a cab like this.
And I would greatly appreciate any recommended crossover starting points. Taking in mind the original project specs from lampizator and the fact that I'm on a tight budget.
Many thanks.
I'm a composer FYI.
I'm trying my first speaker build as a variation of the lampizator Project 12. A variation based on my studio space and available materials.
The original OB design worries me as I have less than .5m space available behind the speakers, backing onto a big window (with a view that I'd like to keep!!)
I picked up a pair of Kef Ref 103 boxes with damaged tweeters for £25 and have mounted the the Saba tweeters and woofers neatly. (see pics) They have quite a wide baffle and will fit (just).
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Also, I've repaired the B200's from the kefs and would like to upcycle these as subs, stacked as a three way.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I'd like to know if this set up is potentially problematic. Particularly the greencones in a cab like this.
And I would greatly appreciate any recommended crossover starting points. Taking in mind the original project specs from lampizator and the fact that I'm on a tight budget.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Many thanks.
Attachments
Last edited:
Someone whos ears I trust described the sound as a rollercoaster ride (very wonky frequency response).
OK good. So to achieve this, would you recommend starting with a software measurement app like Tolvan Data , or an actual acoustic measurement in the room with a "test" crossover set up (cheap components) until I get the right balance? Is there any free and simple to use software to help me measure the sound in the room? Ideally I want them fairly flat, but detailed. I know there is a mass of information out there, but much of it seems conflicting.
If you want a flat frequency response then you need to measure the individual drivers in the enclosure (frequency and impedance) and then use something like XSim to simulate a crossover.
Doing it the Lampizator way with random components will give you sound but you'd have about as much chance of winning the lottery as you would getting a flat response and good phase tracking. Some music will sound great, other stuff will sound bad. To justify their efforts, most people blame the recordings.
This thread should give you a basic understanding of how to design a crossover - LINK
Troels Gravesen (well respected speaker designer) has measured the frequency response of the Lampizator speakers HERE
Doing it the Lampizator way with random components will give you sound but you'd have about as much chance of winning the lottery as you would getting a flat response and good phase tracking. Some music will sound great, other stuff will sound bad. To justify their efforts, most people blame the recordings.
This thread should give you a basic understanding of how to design a crossover - LINK
Troels Gravesen (well respected speaker designer) has measured the frequency response of the Lampizator speakers HERE
Thanks for that! Makes sense with the infinite variations driver/cabinet possibilities. Not sure I trust my ears also.
Can you recommend some software that will get me started on measuring the drivers and creating the FRD and ZMA (?) data files. I already have decent mics and soundcard.
I'm still also a little confused as to whether I need to have a reference crossover on each driver before measurement. But I'm guessing that will become clear as I go down the road.
Can you recommend some software that will get me started on measuring the drivers and creating the FRD and ZMA (?) data files. I already have decent mics and soundcard.
I'm still also a little confused as to whether I need to have a reference crossover on each driver before measurement. But I'm guessing that will become clear as I go down the road.
I own Saba Greencones.
Their frequency response is far from flat from the beginning, so if one wants to achieve flat response with those units, one need EQ.
I do not mean SABA is a bad sounding speaker without EQ, I rather like how it is. 🙂
Their frequency response is far from flat from the beginning, so if one wants to achieve flat response with those units, one need EQ.
I do not mean SABA is a bad sounding speaker without EQ, I rather like how it is. 🙂
Have you measured your speaker with REW? (Room EQ Wizard, free software). It will probably give you some ideas. Measure first, is my advice here.
I loved them with in their limits. They do well in open baffle or resonant boxes like they were used in back in there day.
Use a low watt tube amp.
Older black cones are nice too.
Enjoy.
Cheers
Use a low watt tube amp.
Older black cones are nice too.
Enjoy.
Cheers
Last edited:
Welcome to the forum, danb11.
Clearly you are a complete noobie to this, as we all once were... 😀
TBH, it would never occur to me to use some KEF Reference 103 cabs for a greencones project. Measure till you are blue in the face, it's still a terrible idea.
Troels Gravesen tells me everything I need to know about greencones: Greencones
Your project bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Lampizator Project 12, whatever its supposed virtues: opoen baffle alnico speakers project 12
Abandon this straight away! Any virtues of the Lampizator project come from the open baffle. And I saw enough in Troels' investigations to know that the crossover is seriously difficult for anything apart from a Kabuki speaker.
You have a seriously good chance of restoring the KEF Reference 103 speakers in some manner with a new tweeter to replace the dead T52s. I could have a stab at a few possibilities for the old 3kHz crossover 8" SP1039 KEF bass idea. I like this style. Do you have the crossovers? Put the greencones on the back burner for now.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread". 😱
Clearly you are a complete noobie to this, as we all once were... 😀
TBH, it would never occur to me to use some KEF Reference 103 cabs for a greencones project. Measure till you are blue in the face, it's still a terrible idea.
Troels Gravesen tells me everything I need to know about greencones: Greencones
Your project bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Lampizator Project 12, whatever its supposed virtues: opoen baffle alnico speakers project 12
Abandon this straight away! Any virtues of the Lampizator project come from the open baffle. And I saw enough in Troels' investigations to know that the crossover is seriously difficult for anything apart from a Kabuki speaker.
You have a seriously good chance of restoring the KEF Reference 103 speakers in some manner with a new tweeter to replace the dead T52s. I could have a stab at a few possibilities for the old 3kHz crossover 8" SP1039 KEF bass idea. I like this style. Do you have the crossovers? Put the greencones on the back burner for now.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread". 😱
Attachments
Before we go, we should chew the last bits off these old bones. 😀
This greencones crossover...
I think Troels tried a first order cap on the greencones tweeter in his investigations. It didn't do much except add a bit of cone tweeter tizz at the top end.
For all that, there is the germ of a good idea there. The late Siegfried Linkwitz and our own John Kreskovsky find some merit in well implemented open baffles. Below, attached.
Here's a start to fixing the KEF 8" plus 1.5" original.
Whatever is that filter? My best guess below, though the reference 103 is obviously using bit of tweeter attenuation with the green resistor, because big 1.5" tweeters are loud. Shouldn't be hard to modify that for any tweeter you like. I could have a go with the cheapie but goodie Monacor HT22/8.
Here's a lashup I built with 8" bass and 3kHz crossover with a £7 HT22/8 cone tweeter.
It was rather good. Once you have a good bass filter, you just match the tweeter filter to it.
You could do that. You could do that with a dome tweeter too. It's the easy fix. 🙂
This greencones crossover...
I think Troels tried a first order cap on the greencones tweeter in his investigations. It didn't do much except add a bit of cone tweeter tizz at the top end.
For all that, there is the germ of a good idea there. The late Siegfried Linkwitz and our own John Kreskovsky find some merit in well implemented open baffles. Below, attached.
Here's a start to fixing the KEF 8" plus 1.5" original.
Whatever is that filter? My best guess below, though the reference 103 is obviously using bit of tweeter attenuation with the green resistor, because big 1.5" tweeters are loud. Shouldn't be hard to modify that for any tweeter you like. I could have a go with the cheapie but goodie Monacor HT22/8.
Here's a lashup I built with 8" bass and 3kHz crossover with a £7 HT22/8 cone tweeter.
It was rather good. Once you have a good bass filter, you just match the tweeter filter to it.
You could do that. You could do that with a dome tweeter too. It's the easy fix. 🙂
Attachments
Last edited:
Yes, lots to be learned by getting these singing again.
The bass drivers have taken a hammering with a few holes in both cones (a child I suspect), which I've had repaired by a friend who used a bit of heat shrink plastic under the cone.
The tweeters have rips (yes both). BUT they still sound pretty good. A bit harsh in the upper freq maybe.
The tweeter is a T52 (SP1049). Can't find any info on a replacement. Neither on the crossover SP1050..?
The bass drivers have taken a hammering with a few holes in both cones (a child I suspect), which I've had repaired by a friend who used a bit of heat shrink plastic under the cone.
The tweeters have rips (yes both). BUT they still sound pretty good. A bit harsh in the upper freq maybe.
The tweeter is a T52 (SP1049). Can't find any info on a replacement. Neither on the crossover SP1050..?
I must have the patience of a Saint to keep doing this... 😀
What you have is a take on the updated Graham Audio LS5/9:
It's up to you to look at the crossover. Some capacitor and resistor values would help if you can't measure coils.
I am supposing the filter is not wildly different from the KEF 104:
Trust me on this. It is dead easy to fit any old replacement tweeter where your shredded T52 domes are. We'll hope the woofers are in reasonable shape. Usually just a bit of level adjustment needed.
TWEETERS
The 100mm 22TFF might be loud enough to fit with no further adjustment.
What you have is a take on the updated Graham Audio LS5/9:
It's up to you to look at the crossover. Some capacitor and resistor values would help if you can't measure coils.
I am supposing the filter is not wildly different from the KEF 104:
Trust me on this. It is dead easy to fit any old replacement tweeter where your shredded T52 domes are. We'll hope the woofers are in reasonable shape. Usually just a bit of level adjustment needed.
TWEETERS
The 100mm 22TFF might be loud enough to fit with no further adjustment.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.