Hello Gents,
The Sampan: ( The Sampan FTL ) has gotten a lot of very positive reviews. I'm wondering if there is a DIY equivalent design around. I recently have been listening to some TABAQs I built a couple of years ago and am greatly appreciating some of their virtues that I had forgotten about. I'm hoping that a Sampan clone will give me some of that quality of sound in a much smaller cabinet volume. Any information about a possible clone or similar proven design would be welcome.
Best,
Jay
The Sampan: ( The Sampan FTL ) has gotten a lot of very positive reviews. I'm wondering if there is a DIY equivalent design around. I recently have been listening to some TABAQs I built a couple of years ago and am greatly appreciating some of their virtues that I had forgotten about. I'm hoping that a Sampan clone will give me some of that quality of sound in a much smaller cabinet volume. Any information about a possible clone or similar proven design would be welcome.
Best,
Jay
A 3.5in full range driver in a slim rectangular prism box. Meh... those glowing reviews are quotes from self-posted ad copy. I don’t see any real independent reviews. You can only do so much with a 3.5in driver. I assume the FTL stands for fullrange transmission line?
Note that they refuse to show the bare driver. You would notice the brand and wonder why they charge $1200 for a box and a $30 driver.
DIY this with Scottmoose’ Lance labyrinth TL and possibly an FF85WK, RS100, FR88EX or PS95-8 or TC9FD or 3FE25.
http://wodendesign.com/downloads/Woden-BabyLabs-241018.pdf
I also made a small labyrinth TL once.
In any case, a hefty baffle step comp has to be used to balance the sound. Maybe 1 mH air parallel 8ohm (adjust to taste) for 8ohm drivers.
Edit, I did find a review that says they have a neodymium motor and a 3 ft long TL with front firing port. They sound strained at higher volumes. They are coherent and have great imaging. No surprise for us fullrange fans.
Role Audio Sampan FTL Bookshelf Speaker Reviewed
Underhung neodymium motor eliminates many possible drivers and points to a 3.5in Peerless aluminum cone similar to that used in production Tabaq. 3ft TL says it’s a MLTL as. 3ft standard open TL won’t get you much bass (94Hz if not MLTL). Specs say -3.5dB at a very deep 35Hz so must be MLTL.
Peerless by Tymphany 830986 3" Full Range Woofer
So my conclusion is that this is similar to a desktop folded Tabaq MLTL type design. The one I have for TC9FD could be refolded for a front facing vent.
Note that they refuse to show the bare driver. You would notice the brand and wonder why they charge $1200 for a box and a $30 driver.
DIY this with Scottmoose’ Lance labyrinth TL and possibly an FF85WK, RS100, FR88EX or PS95-8 or TC9FD or 3FE25.
http://wodendesign.com/downloads/Woden-BabyLabs-241018.pdf
I also made a small labyrinth TL once.
In any case, a hefty baffle step comp has to be used to balance the sound. Maybe 1 mH air parallel 8ohm (adjust to taste) for 8ohm drivers.
Edit, I did find a review that says they have a neodymium motor and a 3 ft long TL with front firing port. They sound strained at higher volumes. They are coherent and have great imaging. No surprise for us fullrange fans.
Role Audio Sampan FTL Bookshelf Speaker Reviewed
Underhung neodymium motor eliminates many possible drivers and points to a 3.5in Peerless aluminum cone similar to that used in production Tabaq. 3ft TL says it’s a MLTL as. 3ft standard open TL won’t get you much bass (94Hz if not MLTL). Specs say -3.5dB at a very deep 35Hz so must be MLTL.
Peerless by Tymphany 830986 3" Full Range Woofer
So my conclusion is that this is similar to a desktop folded Tabaq MLTL type design. The one I have for TC9FD could be refolded for a front facing vent.
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The TC9 doesn't work in a MLTL like the TABAQ. There's no more bass than a simple vented box.
35Hz to 20kHz, +/- 3.5dB, I call this uber marketing. A 3.5" in a MLTL will start going down rapidly at 55Hz. There's no way it reaches 35Hz at -3.5dB, unless you put the mic at 1cm from the cone.
There's been a bunch of miracle designs lately. All backed by sketchy marketing.
OP, you want the DIY version?
Like X mentioned, it's called a TABAQ, this one is folded, but it can also be a small column.
Can't believe that they are selling Bjorn's design at $1,200 a pair, when the original commercial version of the TABAQ sells for $350 a pair!
35Hz to 20kHz, +/- 3.5dB, I call this uber marketing. A 3.5" in a MLTL will start going down rapidly at 55Hz. There's no way it reaches 35Hz at -3.5dB, unless you put the mic at 1cm from the cone.
There's been a bunch of miracle designs lately. All backed by sketchy marketing.
OP, you want the DIY version?
Like X mentioned, it's called a TABAQ, this one is folded, but it can also be a small column.
Can't believe that they are selling Bjorn's design at $1,200 a pair, when the original commercial version of the TABAQ sells for $350 a pair!
350$ budget: CNC services + plywood you can build 4-8 cabinets for 200$ depending on your country, with 150$ left for drivers...
If there are any takers, I can build some commercial ones for 1000$/pair, even decorate with gold leaflets!
If you do sell some at $1,000+, please consider giving some money to Bjorn as designer's fee.
If I sell for that, I even donate to MJK, even if I have no idea how his original software looks like...
I think I got about 55Hz with a TC9FD in a MLTL - same as BR as you say. And in general, a BR will go just as low as MLTL, the bass quality on the MLTL is better and the cone control is better. I think the 35Hz claim is probably with the box on a desk near a back wall and with room gain?
Here is a fuzzy image of the freq response from a google search but not visible from their website:
EDIT: I have exactly no idea, how his software looks like... There is no copies of it in my posession.
In my Tabaqs I can hear something at 27-28Hz coming out of them in one room corner, 35 Hz is not the limit! There must be some mistake in that marketing material.
But Bjorn did use MJK's software to come up with the TABAQ.
And still does simulations for people out there with new drivers.
That's dedication.
I can't thank MJK and Bjorn enough. They introduced me to the world of MLTL and I'm not going back!
I got maybe 75Hz with the TC9 in my TABAQs, same ones I got 50-ish Hz with other drivers. I have a spare build of the TABAq I keep to test out drivers.
But, yes, as you mention, the bass from a MLTL is much better than a BR in any case... group delay usually lower, even though they may reach the same.
It's funny, according to their website, that little box should beat your RS225-10F, and we all know that is just not possible.
It sounds like the consensus is that if I want TABAQ quality sound I need to go with a TABAQ! So, I'm thinking that a folded TABAQ would give me a more compact, although deeper, footprint. Searching over at the TABAQ giant thread I have not yet found a specific plan for a folded TABAQ using the TB W4 1320. It seems that there is some disagreement or confusion as to the details of the port placement, best crossectional area, line length and stuffing. Can anyone point me to a post which details a proven FOLDED TABAQ for the TB W4 1320?
Thanks!
Jay
Thanks!
Jay
A lot of “optimisim" on thst web page. 3.5” in a small TL reaching 35 Hz?
Woden BabyLabs. Woden Design 3" Box Designs, BabyLabs & more
dave
There are some posts, I think you can search thread with word "folded", at least 4 or more types of folds were used. It is not much science: place driver at 26cm like original, or a bit up, up to 18cm from top of the line. It is ok by the theory, then by using pen and calculator calculate the folds. I made 2 units with "G" and "Z" type folds. Both worked well. My advice is to buy variable length vent of similar diameter instead of slot port to finetune according to your taste, driver and room. Slot ports near ground have advantage to get massive bass boost, but it looks like you are building shelf speakers, so, not much of a difference (except if fold is "U" type, slot is close and parallel to the wall and unobstructed, then the bass boost also will be massive)
Folded TABAQ
You can use a 4" in the folded version as you can i the straight version. Use less stuffing (70 gram).
Please note, you can place the driver in the middle of the front baffle if you want.
However, you could increase cross section /volum) when using af 4" with Ots 0.4 or so. Increase from 128 cm2 to 154 cm2 and the port should be 17 cm2. All lengths are the same. Stuffing 63 to 112 gram. This is based on a driver TB W4-1052SDF with Fs of 75 Hz and Qts 0.36.
I have not build this version for the 4" TB, but is planning to do so.
You can use a 4" in the folded version as you can i the straight version. Use less stuffing (70 gram).
Please note, you can place the driver in the middle of the front baffle if you want.
However, you could increase cross section /volum) when using af 4" with Ots 0.4 or so. Increase from 128 cm2 to 154 cm2 and the port should be 17 cm2. All lengths are the same. Stuffing 63 to 112 gram. This is based on a driver TB W4-1052SDF with Fs of 75 Hz and Qts 0.36.
I have not build this version for the 4" TB, but is planning to do so.