The Sonatello Speaker by Paul Kittinger.
This series of posts is dedicated to Paul's generosity, passion for speaker design and willingness to share that we might all enjoy our music a little more. Enjoy
After spending a few weeks recently with these speakers and trying better & better supporting equipment I have come to realise that these speakers are fantastic and could easily keep up when connected to tens of thousands of dollars worth of supporting gear. They have a beautiful and even handed frequency response, great soundstage and very solid dynamics.
So I have decided to share all my Sketchup build plans here in the hope that if this design meets anybodies needs, the task will be made a lot easier.
The Context:
I stumbled upon Pauls design on:
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design Gallery
This was just around the time when a close friend had demanded I build her her first set of speakers.
She loves music and had always dreamed of owning her own system that made all her music sing. I did try to talk her out of it for the first few days as I knew how much she loved dub and electronic music. This was never going to be a quick pair of bookshelves.
She handed me 1k AUD to get started and gave me another 1k budget for labour. I was getting excited by now after doing some initial research and immediately lied to her that that was the perfect budget!
Off to the races.
As always, building audio equipment in Australia can be expensive and often hard work to find all the parts you need without having to resort to expensive international shipping. Perhaps one day all audio gear will truly be ultra light and ultra rigid, until then it's a balancing act with many variables.
I had recently built Jeff Bagby's Sopranos:
Soprano Full Kit (Pair) - Meniscus Audio
Sopranos (Jeff Bagby) - Build Log -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
I custom ordered the parts from various Aussie suppliers and was very happy with the sound so SB Acoustics was my first choice for the right cost/performance/availability profile.
When I found Paul's design I knew it might be a real option. All SB drivers, nearly all parts available at local suppliers and the potential to hit the perfect balance between overall size and bass output. Plus i have always enjoyed something about TL bass, or at least more than ported.
The Build
I contacted Paul and he sent through a set of hand drawn plans and diagrams in imperial measurements. At this point it was time to sit down and build the model in Sketchup to test all the alignments and convert everything to metric. The build went smoothly with the new drawings and although a lot of work it was not too hard for a person with intermediate skills such as myself.
The few must have tools for the project:
1. Drop Saw or Table Saw + Jig Saw
2. Router & a large scale Circle Jig
3. Lots of long G-Clamps and a few Sash Clamps if possible.
Attached are Paul's original drawings. In the following posts I will attach the Sketchup Files and JPEG images of all the panels for cutting.
This series of posts is dedicated to Paul's generosity, passion for speaker design and willingness to share that we might all enjoy our music a little more. Enjoy
After spending a few weeks recently with these speakers and trying better & better supporting equipment I have come to realise that these speakers are fantastic and could easily keep up when connected to tens of thousands of dollars worth of supporting gear. They have a beautiful and even handed frequency response, great soundstage and very solid dynamics.
So I have decided to share all my Sketchup build plans here in the hope that if this design meets anybodies needs, the task will be made a lot easier.
The Context:
I stumbled upon Pauls design on:
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design Gallery
This was just around the time when a close friend had demanded I build her her first set of speakers.
She loves music and had always dreamed of owning her own system that made all her music sing. I did try to talk her out of it for the first few days as I knew how much she loved dub and electronic music. This was never going to be a quick pair of bookshelves.
She handed me 1k AUD to get started and gave me another 1k budget for labour. I was getting excited by now after doing some initial research and immediately lied to her that that was the perfect budget!
Off to the races.
As always, building audio equipment in Australia can be expensive and often hard work to find all the parts you need without having to resort to expensive international shipping. Perhaps one day all audio gear will truly be ultra light and ultra rigid, until then it's a balancing act with many variables.
I had recently built Jeff Bagby's Sopranos:
Soprano Full Kit (Pair) - Meniscus Audio
Sopranos (Jeff Bagby) - Build Log -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
I custom ordered the parts from various Aussie suppliers and was very happy with the sound so SB Acoustics was my first choice for the right cost/performance/availability profile.
When I found Paul's design I knew it might be a real option. All SB drivers, nearly all parts available at local suppliers and the potential to hit the perfect balance between overall size and bass output. Plus i have always enjoyed something about TL bass, or at least more than ported.
The Build
I contacted Paul and he sent through a set of hand drawn plans and diagrams in imperial measurements. At this point it was time to sit down and build the model in Sketchup to test all the alignments and convert everything to metric. The build went smoothly with the new drawings and although a lot of work it was not too hard for a person with intermediate skills such as myself.
The few must have tools for the project:
1. Drop Saw or Table Saw + Jig Saw
2. Router & a large scale Circle Jig
3. Lots of long G-Clamps and a few Sash Clamps if possible.
Attached are Paul's original drawings. In the following posts I will attach the Sketchup Files and JPEG images of all the panels for cutting.
Attachments
And the remaining plans....
Attachments
Some build pics...
Notice I chose to go for square top edges over the original rounded In Pauls Original Plans.
I also coated everything inside, except the final stage of the TL, with sound deadening tar.
Notice I chose to go for square top edges over the original rounded In Pauls Original Plans.
I also coated everything inside, except the final stage of the TL, with sound deadening tar.
Attachments
I'm not around here too much but will drop in now and again to answer any questions....
Cheers all and have fun!
Cheers all and have fun!
Hi Dean,
Boy it's been 8 or more years since I built the Sonatellos and your build looks quite good. I'm very happy you like how they sound and I appreciate your kind comments very much. I assume you took a lot more photos during the build process than those you've shown in this thread and, if so, you may like to share some of those here, like one showing where/how the polyester fiber is installed.
Paul
Boy it's been 8 or more years since I built the Sonatellos and your build looks quite good. I'm very happy you like how they sound and I appreciate your kind comments very much. I assume you took a lot more photos during the build process than those you've shown in this thread and, if so, you may like to share some of those here, like one showing where/how the polyester fiber is installed.
Paul
Absolutely brilliant construction, Paul. Love it! 😀
A classic Steen Duelund 3 way with good phase alignment. And excellent documentation. TBH, I was a bit confused by those low inductance SB drivers when they first came out. Such awful breakup to be dealt with despite their loveliness. 😱
But, TBH, mate, I think your crossover man got a few things wrong. I just looked at the tweeter filter and thought "that is wrong". It's underdamped for a 4 ohm design, leading to low impedance. The mid filter is unconventional too. I think the 0.68uF 8kHz notch and the 1mH coil rolloff makes things worse.
I found it fairly easy to tidy up the impedance to a comfortable 6 ohms above 700Hz. You take your beating with a reflex 3 way below that. Anyway, hope it suggests things to try in a Mk II version. IMO, speakers that present an easy load always work better. 😎
A classic Steen Duelund 3 way with good phase alignment. And excellent documentation. TBH, I was a bit confused by those low inductance SB drivers when they first came out. Such awful breakup to be dealt with despite their loveliness. 😱
But, TBH, mate, I think your crossover man got a few things wrong. I just looked at the tweeter filter and thought "that is wrong". It's underdamped for a 4 ohm design, leading to low impedance. The mid filter is unconventional too. I think the 0.68uF 8kHz notch and the 1mH coil rolloff makes things worse.
I found it fairly easy to tidy up the impedance to a comfortable 6 ohms above 700Hz. You take your beating with a reflex 3 way below that. Anyway, hope it suggests things to try in a Mk II version. IMO, speakers that present an easy load always work better. 😎
Attachments
System 7 –
This thread is about the Sonatello design. Please have the courtesy to use the same drivers if you’re going to offer a supposedly improved crossover design.
TBH, mate, you come off as arrogant when you do this.
This thread is about the Sonatello design. Please have the courtesy to use the same drivers if you’re going to offer a supposedly improved crossover design.
TBH, mate, you come off as arrogant when you do this.
Hey Paul and glad you saw the thread. The thought flashed through my head just after posting this about whether you would mind me sharing all this! so thanks again.
I built these about 2 years ago so these are some of the pictures i could find from an old PC backup. I will keep hunting for the stuffing process pictures although I would like to redo it at some point. I still think I missed the mark on the density per section.
Regarding the outside finish, we intended to laminate these with real wood veneer but after a final test build for the stuffing they never came apart again. Now might be a good time to do the veneer and redress the stuffing in one swoop.
Hey System 7.
DIY is always a work in progress as you know so any sims are welcome. Lets keep it constructive so others have a solid build resource thread. I am sure Paul made his crossover decisions for good reasons so I will leave that conversation up to him if he is up for it. Not my strong point.
Cheers gents.
DIY is always a work in progress as you know so any sims are welcome. Lets keep it constructive so others have a solid build resource thread. I am sure Paul made his crossover decisions for good reasons so I will leave that conversation up to him if he is up for it. Not my strong point.
Cheers gents.
Dan Neubecker has designed most of my crossovers over the last ~10 years and he's very, very good at this task. I generally need to make only very minor changes to them based on my listening to them and in concert with Dan on what and why. Dan's own builds are highly recognized for their very good performance. As far as the impedance goes in the Sonatello, unless one attempts to drive them with a tubed amplifier having low power and/or a high output impedance, there will be no problem whatsoever with the Sonatello's performance. I haven't used a tubed amplifier since the mid-'70s.
Paul
Paul
Freely available 3-way designs using SB drivers are rare and highly appreciated.
Many thanks to Paul and Dean for sharing the plans of the Sonatello.
🙂
Many thanks to Paul and Dean for sharing the plans of the Sonatello.
🙂
Quarter wavelength single source coherence goal....
With the Sonatello midrange-woofer crossover at ~450Hz = 30" wavelength, a C-to-C goal of 7.5" (30/4) would be the most commonly recommended design goal to mimic a single source location. Most small 3-way designs locate the woofer as near to the midrange as possible, plus also give some consideration of floor bounce effects which recommends keeping the woofer height less than (ceiling height/4)". For small 3-way designs, this usually works out to a woofer height ~23".
Looking forward to your Sonatello listening impressions with its 26" mid-woofer C-to-C spacing.
With the Sonatello midrange-woofer crossover at ~450Hz = 30" wavelength, a C-to-C goal of 7.5" (30/4) would be the most commonly recommended design goal to mimic a single source location. Most small 3-way designs locate the woofer as near to the midrange as possible, plus also give some consideration of floor bounce effects which recommends keeping the woofer height less than (ceiling height/4)". For small 3-way designs, this usually works out to a woofer height ~23".
Looking forward to your Sonatello listening impressions with its 26" mid-woofer C-to-C spacing.
Attachments
Last edited:
While I know just enough about crossover design to get into trouble, having drivers placed very close together is certainly an admirable goal, but Vance Dickason states that a 1-wavelength separation is acceptable. And, if you haven't read the 1st attachment in Post #1, it shows polar plots from Dan's on-baffle driver measurements, and Dan is very well versed in polar characteristics from his various omni-type personal designs. The actual crossover frequency from woofer to the midrange is 370 Hz, not 450, which translates to ~37" for 1 wavelength. Most important was the goal of maximizing sensitivity, by minimizing the amount of BSC needed, by locating the woofer close to the floor to benefit from its reinforcement. So, like every single speaker design known to man, there are and were compromises. The Sonatellos' performance is not the least bit adversely affected by the long CTC spacing between woofer and midrange.
Paul
Paul
Dean,
In case you can't find what you're looking for regarding stuffing and its density, the stuffing density I modeled and built with was 0.85 lb/ft3, and the total amount of polyester fiber needed was 21 ounces (595 grams). In my dimensioned side-view drawing I show the following: Between Divider C and Brace C are 4 ounces (113 grams); between Brace C and Brace E are 5 ounces (142 grams); also 5 ounces (142 grams) between Brace E and Brace B; and last, between Brace B and Brace A there are 7 ounces (198 grams). Brace E is the narrow piece that forms the end of the tapered TL for its exit, the terminus, out the back panel. You can use common polyester pillow stuffing, or if you can get it, Acousta Stuf. Acousta Stuf is better because you need to weigh out and fluff up the fiber before installing it, and Acousta Stuf tends to stay fluffed up and in place once it's installed. While you want the density of the stuffing to be as uniform as possible for its entire length, it does not have to be perfect.
Paul
In case you can't find what you're looking for regarding stuffing and its density, the stuffing density I modeled and built with was 0.85 lb/ft3, and the total amount of polyester fiber needed was 21 ounces (595 grams). In my dimensioned side-view drawing I show the following: Between Divider C and Brace C are 4 ounces (113 grams); between Brace C and Brace E are 5 ounces (142 grams); also 5 ounces (142 grams) between Brace E and Brace B; and last, between Brace B and Brace A there are 7 ounces (198 grams). Brace E is the narrow piece that forms the end of the tapered TL for its exit, the terminus, out the back panel. You can use common polyester pillow stuffing, or if you can get it, Acousta Stuf. Acousta Stuf is better because you need to weigh out and fluff up the fiber before installing it, and Acousta Stuf tends to stay fluffed up and in place once it's installed. While you want the density of the stuffing to be as uniform as possible for its entire length, it does not have to be perfect.
Paul
For my personal education....
CAD simulations of new Sonatello baffle:
1) Baffle simulation
---midrange near sharp top edge increases the 600-1500Hz diffraction bump which can add distortion
---Xsim using ONLY THIS MIDRANGE FRD equalization data illustrates crossover challenges with simple box top.
2) Reference Big Rounds cabinet simulation illustrates potential for reduced diffraction distortion and lower complexity crossover.
CAD simulations are not perfect, but can shine some light on early design decisions.
==========
A 16mm midwoofer like the Satori MW16P-8 which supports a under 135Hz = 100" wavelength crossover frequency seems ideal for locating the woofer close to the floor. Kairos, Kalasan, Mandolin, Troels SB10, etc... get positive reviews.
CAD simulations of new Sonatello baffle:
1) Baffle simulation
---midrange near sharp top edge increases the 600-1500Hz diffraction bump which can add distortion
---Xsim using ONLY THIS MIDRANGE FRD equalization data illustrates crossover challenges with simple box top.
2) Reference Big Rounds cabinet simulation illustrates potential for reduced diffraction distortion and lower complexity crossover.
CAD simulations are not perfect, but can shine some light on early design decisions.
==========
A 16mm midwoofer like the Satori MW16P-8 which supports a under 135Hz = 100" wavelength crossover frequency seems ideal for locating the woofer close to the floor. Kairos, Kalasan, Mandolin, Troels SB10, etc... get positive reviews.
Attachments
As you will note my original build had 3/4" radius round-overs on the baffle edges in addition to the large-radius side edges on the top. Obviously a large radius round-over should be better than a small radius round-over, although what the measurements imply aren't necessarily audible. Dean chose to build his version differently, which may or may not have detrimentally affected what he heard. Also, obviously, a larger midrange driver would likely be able to be crossed lower, but your assumption that the smaller one in the Sonatello doesn't sound good in conjunction with the woofer, is also definitely not correct per my ears, and your thinly veiled sarcastic remark to Dean ("Looking forward to your Sonatello listening impressions with its 26" mid-woofer C-to-C spacing") was uncalled for.
Paul
Paul
Hey gents.
I started this thread to exactly fulfill the below quote... Cheers Dissi
We had planned to veneer the cabs and having never done it before decided it would be much easier with square edges. The adverse effects would be minimal for the given application.
There is the Woofers position in the TL to consider, again a choice/compromise among many which ultimately makes the Sonatello "The Sonatello".
I might suggest that any major changes would perhaps miss the point of this thread and would require a new name and thread.
I do hope the design can be considered a complete, accessible and thoroughly outstanding project for anybody interested.
PS. After adding more binding posts and using a bridged Peter Daniels LM4780 per woofer + 2 more for the Mid/Tweet circuits (Originally using a single CA640A) I can wholeheartedly recommend the bi-amping upgrade if possible.
I started this thread to exactly fulfill the below quote... Cheers Dissi
Freely available 3-way designs using SB drivers are rare and highly appreciated.
Many thanks to Paul and Dean for sharing the plans of the Sonatello.
We had planned to veneer the cabs and having never done it before decided it would be much easier with square edges. The adverse effects would be minimal for the given application.
There is the Woofers position in the TL to consider, again a choice/compromise among many which ultimately makes the Sonatello "The Sonatello".
I might suggest that any major changes would perhaps miss the point of this thread and would require a new name and thread.
I do hope the design can be considered a complete, accessible and thoroughly outstanding project for anybody interested.
PS. After adding more binding posts and using a bridged Peter Daniels LM4780 per woofer + 2 more for the Mid/Tweet circuits (Originally using a single CA640A) I can wholeheartedly recommend the bi-amping upgrade if possible.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.