Hi,
sorry if this had already been discussed but i didn't manage to find exact answer.
I'm considering upgrading the front speakers of my Skoda Octavia.
As a typical VAG it has 2-way system in the front doors. A woofer in the front bottom part and a tweeter in the A-pillar.
Picture from internet:
I've looked over the specs and prices of different aftermarket manufacturers and I've found huge difference in the stated XO frequences ranging from 2.5KHz to 4-4.5KHz.
As far as I know as the frequency rises the sound tends to get directional.
For example here is a simulation of a directionality of a tweeter
And here is a simulation of a 6.5" woofer
So basically when the woofer is in the driver's footwell then the driver will hear almost nothing from it above 2KHz.
Am I going on the right track thinking that I should limit my search to a aftermarket 2-way system with XO less than 2.5KHz?
sorry if this had already been discussed but i didn't manage to find exact answer.
I'm considering upgrading the front speakers of my Skoda Octavia.
As a typical VAG it has 2-way system in the front doors. A woofer in the front bottom part and a tweeter in the A-pillar.
Picture from internet:
I've looked over the specs and prices of different aftermarket manufacturers and I've found huge difference in the stated XO frequences ranging from 2.5KHz to 4-4.5KHz.
As far as I know as the frequency rises the sound tends to get directional.
For example here is a simulation of a directionality of a tweeter
And here is a simulation of a 6.5" woofer
So basically when the woofer is in the driver's footwell then the driver will hear almost nothing from it above 2KHz.
Am I going on the right track thinking that I should limit my search to a aftermarket 2-way system with XO less than 2.5KHz?
Greets!
VAG? Regardless, as PB implied/noted, this is a much more complex 'room' acoustics scenario than a HIFI/HT app where the XO type/design is even more critical to excellent/superior performance, though historically at ~2 kHz it was a true tweeter while the much higher XOs used small wide range driver designs such as used in small radio/TV apps.
VAG? Regardless, as PB implied/noted, this is a much more complex 'room' acoustics scenario than a HIFI/HT app where the XO type/design is even more critical to excellent/superior performance, though historically at ~2 kHz it was a true tweeter while the much higher XOs used small wide range driver designs such as used in small radio/TV apps.
VAG =Volkswagen AG
Thanks for the link. Indeed all of the sound in car is off-axis. According to Hertz the passenger side tweeter should be pointed towards the driver and vice-versa.
I will have to double check but as of now I think that my head unit has 4 outputs (Front left/right and Rear left/right) and then there is only one capacitor on each tweeter.
I suppose this means that I will take full benefit from aftermarket 2 way system with dedicated 12db/octave passive crossover.
However if I have to choose between 2 models like for example Hertz CK 165 and CK 165L they cost the same but the L is crossed at 3.8Khz and the non-L is crossed at 2.5KHz.
I won't have the chance to hear them both in my car and based purely on raw theory I will go for the non-L version.
Thanks for the link. Indeed all of the sound in car is off-axis. According to Hertz the passenger side tweeter should be pointed towards the driver and vice-versa.
I will have to double check but as of now I think that my head unit has 4 outputs (Front left/right and Rear left/right) and then there is only one capacitor on each tweeter.
I suppose this means that I will take full benefit from aftermarket 2 way system with dedicated 12db/octave passive crossover.
However if I have to choose between 2 models like for example Hertz CK 165 and CK 165L they cost the same but the L is crossed at 3.8Khz and the non-L is crossed at 2.5KHz.
I won't have the chance to hear them both in my car and based purely on raw theory I will go for the non-L version.
OK clearly there is something missing in my knowledge.
No other but Focal and DLS have direct bolt-on upgraded speakers for VW Group cars. Both of them are using tweeters with high Fs and high XO.
DLS are clearly stating XO = 4.8KHz 12dB/Oct. Focal are not stating the XO it but the Fs of the tweeter on the frequency/impedance diagram is at 2.85KHz.
The original tweeter has one single 6.8uF capacitor.
Currently I've cleared a bit my plan - change all of the speakers not only those in the front doors.
Based on my budget and the availability of the local shops best I can get is 2 sets of Hertz Cento CPK 165
Alternatively i can mix-match Audison VOCE AV1.1 tweeter and Hertz Cento C 165 woofer part of the Cento CK 165 component system.
AV 1.1 is good for XO at 2KHz when used without external amp. In this case the crossover will be hand-made 2nd order L-C.
No other but Focal and DLS have direct bolt-on upgraded speakers for VW Group cars. Both of them are using tweeters with high Fs and high XO.
DLS are clearly stating XO = 4.8KHz 12dB/Oct. Focal are not stating the XO it but the Fs of the tweeter on the frequency/impedance diagram is at 2.85KHz.
The original tweeter has one single 6.8uF capacitor.
Currently I've cleared a bit my plan - change all of the speakers not only those in the front doors.
Based on my budget and the availability of the local shops best I can get is 2 sets of Hertz Cento CPK 165
Alternatively i can mix-match Audison VOCE AV1.1 tweeter and Hertz Cento C 165 woofer part of the Cento CK 165 component system.
AV 1.1 is good for XO at 2KHz when used without external amp. In this case the crossover will be hand-made 2nd order L-C.
After reading many articles on bestcaraudio.com and scouting for tweeter capable of 2KHz I've come up with possible solution - to use small 1.5-2.0 full range drivers instead of tweeters and XO at bellow 1000Hz. I've found several threads here for FR projects way back from 2009 and 2017 but no real results.
The original place of the tweeters is not like I said in the A-pillar but in the sail panel.
There are projects with Audison Voce AV 1.1 tweeters meaning there is enough place for driver with diameter of 50mm and depth about 30mm.
Several candidates are Peerless TC5FC02-04 and TB W2-2360S. Both rated up to 5 and 6W respectively but the TB seems very hard to find.
Eventualy TC6FC02-04 but it may not fit in the panel.
Is this reasonable solution?
Can someone point out any other candidates?
The original place of the tweeters is not like I said in the A-pillar but in the sail panel.
There are projects with Audison Voce AV 1.1 tweeters meaning there is enough place for driver with diameter of 50mm and depth about 30mm.
Several candidates are Peerless TC5FC02-04 and TB W2-2360S. Both rated up to 5 and 6W respectively but the TB seems very hard to find.
Eventualy TC6FC02-04 but it may not fit in the panel.
Is this reasonable solution?
Can someone point out any other candidates?
You're unlikely to get a better tweeter for less then $400 and then you have to mold it in
My Volvo used dynaudio, good luck beating that. Their soft dome tweeter is exceptional. Audison Is very good as well.
Adjust ir replace the crossover then the woofer if the sound is harsh or distorted.
My Volvo used dynaudio, good luck beating that. Their soft dome tweeter is exceptional. Audison Is very good as well.
Adjust ir replace the crossover then the woofer if the sound is harsh or distorted.