Another small box sub question. I have a pretty tight space in my basement setup, with just one spot for my subwoofer. I currently have a ported 12" cube with an 8" dayton audio DVC driver. I use a 300w class D plate amp to driv ot, but it is set externally so it does not take up box volume or need a big hole cut in the box. It is pretty good, but I can hear the port chuffing at times.
I want to build a new sub, isobaric setup (only because I love the old M&K subs) using 10" drivers. I would build a similar 12 in cube, with one driver facing forward as normal and one mounted on the bottom firing into the box. The then I will finish 3 sides around the bottom woofer, leaving the front open.
1) how do I model this in one of the online sub modeling tools, when choosing appropriate drivers to look at freq response.
2) are the drivers wired in-phase (so the air pressure stays mostly constant), or out of phase?
I am hoping for basically a sealed 10" sub that digs slightly deeper and cleaner than just a single 10" in a 12" cube. Just a bit taller, and with the added expense of a second driver. I would start with my existing sub amp, but I expect I will eventually need a bigger one with more than 300w to power 2 drivers.
I want to build a new sub, isobaric setup (only because I love the old M&K subs) using 10" drivers. I would build a similar 12 in cube, with one driver facing forward as normal and one mounted on the bottom firing into the box. The then I will finish 3 sides around the bottom woofer, leaving the front open.
1) how do I model this in one of the online sub modeling tools, when choosing appropriate drivers to look at freq response.
2) are the drivers wired in-phase (so the air pressure stays mostly constant), or out of phase?
I am hoping for basically a sealed 10" sub that digs slightly deeper and cleaner than just a single 10" in a 12" cube. Just a bit taller, and with the added expense of a second driver. I would start with my existing sub amp, but I expect I will eventually need a bigger one with more than 300w to power 2 drivers.
What you describe (like the M&K) are not isobaric. The are simply push pull subs, one cone facing out one facing in.
In phase,
good old Winisd will model isobaric.
guess that is desktop, on phone not sure.
maybe kicker or numerous sub manufactures
have phone apps which include isobaric.
have any driver candidates?
isobaric makes the box, half the box size.
similar usually to single box alignment.
just half the box size, then figure out how
to get a low tuned port with decent low velocity
in smaller size.
or current box is now big enough for 4 drivers.
kinda weird, isobaric is interesting
besides trade offs
tradeoff is lower SPL, so power needed
doubles for listening levels.
box half , power double.
its when 4 cheap woofers become interesting.
to gain back a little SPL but have a relatively
still small box.
good old Winisd will model isobaric.
guess that is desktop, on phone not sure.
maybe kicker or numerous sub manufactures
have phone apps which include isobaric.
have any driver candidates?
isobaric makes the box, half the box size.
similar usually to single box alignment.
just half the box size, then figure out how
to get a low tuned port with decent low velocity
in smaller size.
or current box is now big enough for 4 drivers.
kinda weird, isobaric is interesting
besides trade offs
tradeoff is lower SPL, so power needed
doubles for listening levels.
box half , power double.
its when 4 cheap woofers become interesting.
to gain back a little SPL but have a relatively
still small box.
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Well, that explains why I couldn't figure out how to model it using the Isobaric option. I will try investing push pull tomorrow.
when looking at drivers
12" tend to add efficiency
compared to equivalent 10"
food for thought,
if output is good, and just the chuffing
bothers you. new box with more
port area/ lower velocity
or same thing to keep in mind for new
build. flared round ports work well.
just longer / deeper box
12" tend to add efficiency
compared to equivalent 10"
food for thought,
if output is good, and just the chuffing
bothers you. new box with more
port area/ lower velocity
or same thing to keep in mind for new
build. flared round ports work well.
just longer / deeper box
given how small the box is I think you're gonna have to stick with 1 sealed 10" which won't gain you much low end but won't chuff and may sound better? You could also pick a better 8" and enlarge the port diameter and length, the dvc is not bad for the money but runs outta juice pretty fast.
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I just had a thought: If i build it ported, there is no port chuffing, right? The two drivers in push-pull cancel out air compression inside, so there would be negligible air movement in the port itself?
Act like one woofer. All push-pull means is that teh drivers are acoustically in phase, one wired and mounted inverted to reduce 2nd order distortion (at the exzpensive of increased third). It is effective if you use cheap woofers, not so much if you use good woofers (ref Nick McKinney).
dave
I think jayme might have ment sealed.
In that case, then yes.
Sealed no port.
Would eliminate port chuffing.
the magic is finding drivers that
work sealed and hit low.
low efficiency is one of the tradeoffs.
Likely part of the reason M+K added
2 drivers to help increase senstivity.
If your going for recreating the M+K M10
like the X12 and 15 shown so far.
Simulation is basically 2x drivers
in a sealed box.
According to the website sealed application
One driver is reversed for looks.
good size magnet, old trick to reduce volume
getting displaced, reverse the driver outside
the box.
Anyways 2x10 so usually around 2 cubic feet
maybe little more for sealed.
probably common UM series would work.
In that case, then yes.
Sealed no port.
Would eliminate port chuffing.
the magic is finding drivers that
work sealed and hit low.
low efficiency is one of the tradeoffs.
Likely part of the reason M+K added
2 drivers to help increase senstivity.
If your going for recreating the M+K M10
like the X12 and 15 shown so far.
Simulation is basically 2x drivers
in a sealed box.
According to the website sealed application
One driver is reversed for looks.
good size magnet, old trick to reduce volume
getting displaced, reverse the driver outside
the box.
Anyways 2x10 so usually around 2 cubic feet
maybe little more for sealed.
probably common UM series would work.
Down firing woofers, ewww
It's mostly a solution creating and looking for more problems.
If it needs te be compact, just mount them back to back, with the benefit of being impuls corrected.
The rest can be corrected with active filters, since they are active speakers already anyway.
Not impressed for $4000.
It's mostly a solution creating and looking for more problems.
If it needs te be compact, just mount them back to back, with the benefit of being impuls corrected.
The rest can be corrected with active filters, since they are active speakers already anyway.
Not impressed for $4000.
Agree
im over the down fire.
and little cavity for it.
but was interesting to look at.
still like the reverse mounted look.
maybe top instead, show off the basket.
crazy to see I thought as well.
prices from 4000 to 7000
but hey sealed bass.
love it. little magic to sealed
im over the down fire.
and little cavity for it.
but was interesting to look at.
still like the reverse mounted look.
maybe top instead, show off the basket.
crazy to see I thought as well.
prices from 4000 to 7000
but hey sealed bass.
love it. little magic to sealed