The soft dome tweeter capable of maximum SPL I can find is the ScanSpeak Ellipticor D3404/5520-00 38mm Elliptical Dome.
Are there other players in this ballpark?
This is for large format studio monitors.
This Dynaudio Monitor claims a peak SPL of 135 dB per pair, which should be about 129 dB per speaker...
Does anyone know of a soft dome tweeter which can match up to this?
Are there other players in this ballpark?
This is for large format studio monitors.
This Dynaudio Monitor claims a peak SPL of 135 dB per pair, which should be about 129 dB per speaker...
Does anyone know of a soft dome tweeter which can match up to this?
It may produce a brief peak of 129 dB/1m somewhere in it's bandwidth. ( a few milliseconds long )
Similar to saying a vehicle gets infinity miles per gallon. ( sure, it does on the back of a flatbed tow truck on the way to the stealership )
Play with this calculator: Piston Excursion calculator
Crossed at 2500 hz, a 1" tweeter would need somewhere in the neighborhood of 5mm xmax one way or 10 mm p-p value to generate 129dB/1m. ( not possible )
Automotive Dynaudio Esotar2 tweeter in this link, not the exact unit used, but close, still a 28 mm dome:https://www.dynaudio.com/media/2529/esotar2_110.pdf
Looks like ~ 94 dB/2.83V/1m from the graph in the 5 khz region, but the DC Re is 5.2 ohms. Applied power is 1.54Watts, not 1W. 94 dB - 1.875 dB = 92.125 dB/w/1m.
Similar to saying a vehicle gets infinity miles per gallon. ( sure, it does on the back of a flatbed tow truck on the way to the stealership )
Play with this calculator: Piston Excursion calculator
Crossed at 2500 hz, a 1" tweeter would need somewhere in the neighborhood of 5mm xmax one way or 10 mm p-p value to generate 129dB/1m. ( not possible )
Automotive Dynaudio Esotar2 tweeter in this link, not the exact unit used, but close, still a 28 mm dome:https://www.dynaudio.com/media/2529/esotar2_110.pdf
Looks like ~ 94 dB/2.83V/1m from the graph in the 5 khz region, but the DC Re is 5.2 ohms. Applied power is 1.54Watts, not 1W. 94 dB - 1.875 dB = 92.125 dB/w/1m.
Even if a dome claimed to be capable of this SPL, what kind of longevity will it have?
I would look at compression drivers.
I would look at compression drivers.
Hi Audiothing,
I think i recall Quested used Morel's tweeter on the HM range behemoth but i don't know which ref.
Atc use their own developed tweets in the big ones so unobtainable...
At which freq do you plan to cross them?
I think i recall Quested used Morel's tweeter on the HM range behemoth but i don't know which ref.
Atc use their own developed tweets in the big ones so unobtainable...
At which freq do you plan to cross them?
I was thinking of a crossover frequency of around 3.5 KHz... that seems to be conventional for large format 3 way monitors like the ATC SCM150ASL Pro, which has a "Max. continuous SPL" of 117 dB)...
Folks, I'm looking for high SPL tweeters, capable of somewhere near or better than the SPL capabilities of the Ellipticor tweeter I referenced, preferably cheaper.
I've brought similar threads up before, and I have come to realize that manufacturer specs can be very misleading, being that there are no standards followed, even in high end pro audio. I do understand that 129 dB is a very nebulous claim... but I can't even seem to find a tweeter that can match the 117 dB "continuous" spec of the ATC SCM150ASL Pro...
Folks, I'm looking for high SPL tweeters, capable of somewhere near or better than the SPL capabilities of the Ellipticor tweeter I referenced, preferably cheaper.
I've brought similar threads up before, and I have come to realize that manufacturer specs can be very misleading, being that there are no standards followed, even in high end pro audio. I do understand that 129 dB is a very nebulous claim... but I can't even seem to find a tweeter that can match the 117 dB "continuous" spec of the ATC SCM150ASL Pro...
Hi, Audiothings
Outside the possibility of the mentioned ATC driver, a dome tweeter will not last very long at that DB output. You may need a compression driver tweeter as also mentioned. The RAAL lazy ribbon tweeter may come close. Others that may come close is the Fostex T500a Mk2 or Mk3, some JBL, B &C, etc. Check out this site:
High frequency compression 1" and 2" drivers by Eminence, JBL, Peavey, RCF, Beyma and P Audio.
Good luck.
Joe
Outside the possibility of the mentioned ATC driver, a dome tweeter will not last very long at that DB output. You may need a compression driver tweeter as also mentioned. The RAAL lazy ribbon tweeter may come close. Others that may come close is the Fostex T500a Mk2 or Mk3, some JBL, B &C, etc. Check out this site:
High frequency compression 1" and 2" drivers by Eminence, JBL, Peavey, RCF, Beyma and P Audio.
Good luck.
Joe
For a high spl studio monitor I would not use any softdome tweeter. Softdomes are inherently flawed. they work in constant breakup mode that gets worse at higher spl.
For 129 dB AND low distortion you are getting in the compression driver territory.
The claims of Dynaudio is a short 135 dB peak before breakdown. Distortion is allready earbleading high about 25dB to 30dB before that level.
For 129 dB AND low distortion you are getting in the compression driver territory.
The claims of Dynaudio is a short 135 dB peak before breakdown. Distortion is allready earbleading high about 25dB to 30dB before that level.
There are not many reccordings with such 130 dB peaks and so highs dynamics related to the floor noise level...a calm 35 dB for the best rooms/reccordings. Few Opera and not that highs in treble, peaks are more there in the 50hz to 10k hz. And you must have a source device that can handle such dynamic peaks in relation to the average spl level. Not sure your ears will last long ???
However if for PA purposes in venues or outside I will consider compression drivers for the trebles. Or leave with the Dynaudio/Morel. Also one Audax dome is going high, not sure for the 130 db peaks though. TW 025A28 : 95dB/1W
However if for PA purposes in venues or outside I will consider compression drivers for the trebles. Or leave with the Dynaudio/Morel. Also one Audax dome is going high, not sure for the 130 db peaks though. TW 025A28 : 95dB/1W
Last edited:
^ The requirements for this high spl are for (very) big control rooms where you listen at 4m (and more) when a drummer ( or other LOUD instrument player) insist to listen at realistic level ( same level experienced when playing) one take he just done.
Or when deaf artists (or older engineers) comes in.
It can seems insane but it is ( was?) a reality i experienced.
Furthermore as this system cost a fortune ( and are ( supposed to be ) at the leading edge regarding technology/requirements) they include some headroom. Hence those numbers ( real or inflated).
Thats why you see some brands in tracking rooms ( Atc, Quested, Genelec,...) as mains, mainly see nearfields used when mixing in this same rooms or dedicated to mixing ones ( when it comes to manage relative levels you don't need high spl level and extension in freq response, but as you have access to 'full range' mains they are used too ( from time to time) to check low end (mainly) and dynamic at 'normal' level) and 'audiophile' brands in mastering room ( you work on already dynamic limited material most of the time).
That said they are not used at this kind of level 24/7. It happens from time to time but when you need them to deliver they must do it.
Think about a fast car: it's not because it can do 300km/h it will always be at this speed.
Or when deaf artists (or older engineers) comes in.
It can seems insane but it is ( was?) a reality i experienced.
Furthermore as this system cost a fortune ( and are ( supposed to be ) at the leading edge regarding technology/requirements) they include some headroom. Hence those numbers ( real or inflated).
Thats why you see some brands in tracking rooms ( Atc, Quested, Genelec,...) as mains, mainly see nearfields used when mixing in this same rooms or dedicated to mixing ones ( when it comes to manage relative levels you don't need high spl level and extension in freq response, but as you have access to 'full range' mains they are used too ( from time to time) to check low end (mainly) and dynamic at 'normal' level) and 'audiophile' brands in mastering room ( you work on already dynamic limited material most of the time).
That said they are not used at this kind of level 24/7. It happens from time to time but when you need them to deliver they must do it.
Think about a fast car: it's not because it can do 300km/h it will always be at this speed.
Last edited:
well we talk about trebles 😉
trumpet for instance, max spl at the mouth 115 db around 6 K hz.
I asked myself what music is listening the op and see the India flag and wonder if it was about tablas or Shenai trumpet style... as the ask is about a treble soft dome. tablas can have fast harmonics in the highs but not sure 130 dB peaks at the drumer seat... so i asked if it needed spl for venues, theater, outside ???
trumpet for instance, max spl at the mouth 115 db around 6 K hz.
I asked myself what music is listening the op and see the India flag and wonder if it was about tablas or Shenai trumpet style... as the ask is about a treble soft dome. tablas can have fast harmonics in the highs but not sure 130 dB peaks at the drumer seat... so i asked if it needed spl for venues, theater, outside ???
You might want to verify how this rating was achieved/accessed. Nothing there says the tweeter can do this.
IEC "long-term" is a pink noise power rating for 1 minute. "Short-term" is 1 second. The tweeter's power rating references voltage input before the HPF into the "rated impedance" of the driver. The manufacturer has some latitude to define "rated impedance" as they like.
Loudspeaker SPL ratings integrate the input from more than just one driver. I do not see spatial conditions and frequency range specified with the Dynaudio set. The power spectrum of music also collapses noticeably faster than pink noise at higher frequencies, so the tweeter alone does not need to be capable of 129 dB SPL @ 1 m for extended sessions.
Loudspeaker SPL ratings integrate the input from more than just one driver. I do not see spatial conditions and frequency range specified with the Dynaudio set. The power spectrum of music also collapses noticeably faster than pink noise at higher frequencies, so the tweeter alone does not need to be capable of 129 dB SPL @ 1 m for extended sessions.
Nobody monitors playback at 129 dB
I have been in some very very loud bands and we dont play at
129 dB
Normal monitoring would be around 85 to 88 dB
And deaf musicians and engineers would go no more than 95 to 98 dB
To monitor over a live Drum kit
be around 103 to 115 dB
129 dB treble output would be a 75 to 125 watt compression horn driver
and I guarantee you don't monitor with 600 to 800 watts
Besides you cant record a live drum kit with a monitor.
So even with a live monitor you dont use 800 watts.
The drummer just uses headphones or in ear monitor
For loud playback monitor you just use 2 soft domes or a Horn loaded driver.
I have been in some very very loud bands and we dont play at
129 dB
Normal monitoring would be around 85 to 88 dB
And deaf musicians and engineers would go no more than 95 to 98 dB
To monitor over a live Drum kit
be around 103 to 115 dB
129 dB treble output would be a 75 to 125 watt compression horn driver
and I guarantee you don't monitor with 600 to 800 watts
Besides you cant record a live drum kit with a monitor.
So even with a live monitor you dont use 800 watts.
The drummer just uses headphones or in ear monitor
For loud playback monitor you just use 2 soft domes or a Horn loaded driver.
Last edited:
Bliesma T34 will give you the headroom you want.
I tested it in a system with the midbass peaking at 125db.
Crossover was LR24 @ 2khz.
Ran it like this outdoors for hours. The woofers got hot but the tweeter was luke warm. Typical power spectrum of music helps.
You can probably get away with any of the high(93db+) sensitivity tweeters from the usual suspects if crossed at 3.5khz.
I tested it in a system with the midbass peaking at 125db.
Crossover was LR24 @ 2khz.
Ran it like this outdoors for hours. The woofers got hot but the tweeter was luke warm. Typical power spectrum of music helps.
You can probably get away with any of the high(93db+) sensitivity tweeters from the usual suspects if crossed at 3.5khz.
That is a valuable suggestion, had not heard of it before. Troels seems to like it a lot.
Wow Sjef, that is quite an strong opinion!
It has nothing to do with my ethnicity, but that is an amusing idea... 😀
I have mentioned this in other threads I've started - a film monitoring studio should be capable of 105 dB peaks at listening position... this would mean 117 dB peaks at 1m, assuming that listening distance is 4m. Nobody is listening to content at this level continuously, but the system should be capable of it.
Yes, I know this is easy to achieve with horn loaded compression drivers... but I've done a few of those, and I have come to believe that direct radiating drivers with soft dome tweeters are going to be "smoother" and "less fatiguing" than CD+Waveguide combinations, at least for long hours of mixing. ATCs, PMC, Questeds - the most revered speakers - all use soft dome tweeters and 3" dome mid-range units... that is the sound I'm going for, right now... at least for stereo systems.
I'm building a pair with Volt MF drivers and Ellipticor 1.4" tweeters right now, but they are much too expensive for most of my regular clients, and will be particularly problematic in surround sound installs.
Thank you grahamgraham... I will have to give this some thought... Do you think it will pair well with a Beyma 8P300Fe/N with the WG300 waveguide? Some of my surround installations need over 11 speakers (+LFE), and I can't be thinking of > $500 drivers... I am also giving a lot of thought to two way systems that can play 102 dB peaks @ 3m (about 110 dB @ 1m), for smaller format surround and immersive sound installs.
Morel CAT308. It is used in Quested V3110 which is declared capable of 121dB/1m/pair. Tweeter is crossed LR24dB/o at 2.5kHz.
Tweeter works very good with Visaton WG148R
Tweeter works very good with Visaton WG148R
