Solid vs stranded wire in amplifier circuts
OK...another musing from this toob noob. What is the logic regarding stranded vs solid wire in amplifier circuts? All vintage amps I have worked on have stranded wire...easier to manipulate because it's more flexible ? The amp I just built...with LOTS of help from this forum...I used solid wire. Probably about 22ga...leftovers from my day job and proper colors as well. I like it because you can keep it routed where you want it and it is easier to insert into crowded terminals. Any input? Advantages/disadvantages of either? 🙂 😀
OK...another musing from this toob noob. What is the logic regarding stranded vs solid wire in amplifier circuts? All vintage amps I have worked on have stranded wire...easier to manipulate because it's more flexible ? The amp I just built...with LOTS of help from this forum...I used solid wire. Probably about 22ga...leftovers from my day job and proper colors as well. I like it because you can keep it routed where you want it and it is easier to insert into crowded terminals. Any input? Advantages/disadvantages of either? 🙂 😀
hey - don't you know?
wire is only usable if its oxygen-free, teflon coated, cryogenically treated and available from a single supplier by invitation only. Outside of those specifics, any wire will fatally degrade the signal path, inject noise, delete bits from a data stream, switch your fridge off overnight and leave your dog pregnant. Sheesh. It must be true - Audiophile Noodlers Monthly tested it and said so.😀
wire is only usable if its oxygen-free, teflon coated, cryogenically treated and available from a single supplier by invitation only. Outside of those specifics, any wire will fatally degrade the signal path, inject noise, delete bits from a data stream, switch your fridge off overnight and leave your dog pregnant. Sheesh. It must be true - Audiophile Noodlers Monthly tested it and said so.😀
Solid core wire has less resistance than stranded. Stranded has less tendency to break after being bent several times. I use solid core wire inside my amps. You wouldn't want a solid core wire for something like a power cord, the copper would eventually crack from being moved around.
Re: Solid vs stranded wire in amplifier circuts
That's a big advantage. It allows short direct shots between nodes and doesn't require harnessing or bundling interconnects to keep it neat. When your signal is swinging hundreds of volts with high drive impedance every pF counts.
bereanbill said:
That's a big advantage. It allows short direct shots between nodes and doesn't require harnessing or bundling interconnects to keep it neat. When your signal is swinging hundreds of volts with high drive impedance every pF counts.
Actually I believe stranded wire is lower in resistance. Electricity only flows on the surface and since stranded would have more surface it stands to reason it would be lower resistance.
www.stanford.edu/class/ee281/materials/references/WireResistances.pdf
www.stanford.edu/class/ee281/materials/references/WireResistances.pdf
oh puleeease
you must be a card-carrying member of Audiophool Elite Core to beleive that solid vs stranded has any realistically measurable difference at the sort of currents and voltages present in a valve amp. Capacitance possibly, but even then, only at the margins. Mechanical issues as noted are the BEST possible reason for selecting one over the other. IMHO.
you must be a card-carrying member of Audiophool Elite Core to beleive that solid vs stranded has any realistically measurable difference at the sort of currents and voltages present in a valve amp. Capacitance possibly, but even then, only at the margins. Mechanical issues as noted are the BEST possible reason for selecting one over the other. IMHO.
Re: hey - don't you know?
AND Silver coated and sleeved in raw silk insulation 😉
You'll get your best improvements with proper routing, using shielded signal input lines, and twisting leads that need to be twisted (like AC filament wires). Well - using the proper gauge of wire to carry the required amount of current helps a lot too!!
aardvarkash10 said:
AND Silver coated and sleeved in raw silk insulation 😉
You'll get your best improvements with proper routing, using shielded signal input lines, and twisting leads that need to be twisted (like AC filament wires). Well - using the proper gauge of wire to carry the required amount of current helps a lot too!!
I'm having trouble understanding how stranded 16-ga wire has more cross sectional area than solid, unless the overall diameter of the stranded bundle is larger than the solid core, in which case I have learned something today which would be a good thing.
Skin effect is frequency dependent and is quite a bit deeper than these strands are thick for audio frequencies. Read the wikipedia article on skin effect. There is a nice table for skin depth vs. frequency for copper.
I never said it was measureable in a valve amp😀
I believe RDF was saying you could route neatly and not run wires parallel and bundled. This could have a measurable difference in some situations. In all but extreme cases I would expect it not to.
Really mechanical reasons are the right answer to use solid core, just don't use it where the wires will flex or vibrate!
Trust me, I'm no Audiophool. I'm one of the biggest skeptics here. I also understand that it takes only one counterexample to disprove a theorem. Never say never unless the answer really is NEVER.
sorry spreadspectrum
the "you" wasn't meant to be specific! No offence intended... Agree on everything else.
the "you" wasn't meant to be specific! No offence intended... Agree on everything else.
DHT112A said:
LOL, as opposed to the ones where no one can edit it? Surely, on the internet, sources that have citations and an open editing process are more reliable than the vast majority of web pages out there. Umm, I didn't see anything overly controversial on the wiki on skin effect, found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect
What, exactly, has been compromised by this being a page that "anyone" can edit? It's one thing to dismiss a source because there's something wrong with it, it's quite another to dismiss it out of prejudice.
Stranded is more friendly to rework. It bends easier and is much more difficult to break. Stranded wire doesn't look all "kinky" after being re-worked.
I do the layout so that I can form a twisted pair between all possible conductive opposites. This minimizes problems one would face with magnetic coupling.
I do the layout so that I can form a twisted pair between all possible conductive opposites. This minimizes problems one would face with magnetic coupling.
Solid by all means!! Yeah the skin effect. We were told in school in the RF classes not to use stranded....'Skin effect' really comes into its own at microwave frequencies. How many glasses can you fit on a round platter? More metal for a given diameter. Then there is always the notorious tendency of corrosion seeping into the strands of 'stranded'....rotting it from the inside out.
____________________________________________Rick........
____________________________________________Rick........
Someone suggested using screened leads for input signals. I would say this is only really important with Microphone or phono stages. At line level a reasonably sensible layout will eliminate inductive pickup and cross talk. Shielded cables will have a tiny bit of capacitance which will effect the sound.
Basically not really worth it.
Shoog
Basically not really worth it.
Shoog
Richard Ellis said:
Seen it happen, but only in outdoor use. Then again, if one's afraid of this happening, there are better materials than just plain copper for these purposes. I personally have worked with both solid and stranded, and I don't have any major complaints about either. What I do hate is melting insulation. PTFE is virtually impossible to melt with a soldering iron, so if I can use PTFE or something similar, I will. Then again, PTFE insulated tinned solid core is not exactly easy to find where I live. This would be the ideal cable for me. Just my 2 cents.
most components within a valve amp will have solid but having said that some don't........................................?
Re: oh puleeease
Amen. I use solid for most things. Stranded is used in situations where the flexibility is handy or important. Someone mentioned reworkability...honestly it is desoldering that makes things get ugly for me, not trying to rebend solid wire. If the wire is worth reusing after cutting the ends off, you can straighten it out by sliding between your fingers twice making it arc one way and then back. PVC insulated wire is cheap enough and I'd rather pull a new length off the spool then try to save some scraps.
aardvarkash10 said:
Amen. I use solid for most things. Stranded is used in situations where the flexibility is handy or important. Someone mentioned reworkability...honestly it is desoldering that makes things get ugly for me, not trying to rebend solid wire. If the wire is worth reusing after cutting the ends off, you can straighten it out by sliding between your fingers twice making it arc one way and then back. PVC insulated wire is cheap enough and I'd rather pull a new length off the spool then try to save some scraps.
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