Hi,
This is my first post, and I am a massive newcomer to audio, so just looking for some advice.
I am designing a speaker unit for outdoor use to play animal sounds (don't ask!). My background is in electronics, and I have designed an amp (mono) and have a speaker etc. My current testing is in a cardboard box! just to get a rough idea of how loud my speaker can go.
Now I need to design an actual enclosure for my speaker. I have spent a few days wading through loads of really helpful info online, but thought I would ask directly as well, as a lot of the info I have come across is people talking about big woofers for indoor/car use for loads of bass - not entirely applicable to me.
Essentially my goal is for this is to be as loud as possible, so the sound travels as far as possible. But also cannot degrade audio quality too much - It can't sound like a horrible school fete PA system. I did a quick analysis of the sound clips I will be playing and they are around 2-3kHz at peak amplitude, but cover a range from 0-10kHz in total.
With my "hi-tech" cardboard box design I did a quick rough and ready test with my amp plugged into my laptop and I measured about 95dB at 1m with a sound level meter pointed directly at the speaker. I am hoping to bump this up a little by some decent enclosure design.
This is very vague, but what type of enclosure would be best suited for this, I have come across sealed, vented, passive radiators, folded horns, tapped horns and there is so much to consider! So far I am looking at folded horns, would this be suitable. In terms of space/size, it needs to be a cube/cuboid/box shaped - so cant really have a standard big cone horn sticking out of it, and it can be about 30cmx30cmx30cm is size - that is really rough dimensions just for an idea.
Any help would be really appreciated.
Many thanks.
This is my first post, and I am a massive newcomer to audio, so just looking for some advice.
I am designing a speaker unit for outdoor use to play animal sounds (don't ask!). My background is in electronics, and I have designed an amp (mono) and have a speaker etc. My current testing is in a cardboard box! just to get a rough idea of how loud my speaker can go.
Now I need to design an actual enclosure for my speaker. I have spent a few days wading through loads of really helpful info online, but thought I would ask directly as well, as a lot of the info I have come across is people talking about big woofers for indoor/car use for loads of bass - not entirely applicable to me.
Essentially my goal is for this is to be as loud as possible, so the sound travels as far as possible. But also cannot degrade audio quality too much - It can't sound like a horrible school fete PA system. I did a quick analysis of the sound clips I will be playing and they are around 2-3kHz at peak amplitude, but cover a range from 0-10kHz in total.
With my "hi-tech" cardboard box design I did a quick rough and ready test with my amp plugged into my laptop and I measured about 95dB at 1m with a sound level meter pointed directly at the speaker. I am hoping to bump this up a little by some decent enclosure design.
This is very vague, but what type of enclosure would be best suited for this, I have come across sealed, vented, passive radiators, folded horns, tapped horns and there is so much to consider! So far I am looking at folded horns, would this be suitable. In terms of space/size, it needs to be a cube/cuboid/box shaped - so cant really have a standard big cone horn sticking out of it, and it can be about 30cmx30cmx30cm is size - that is really rough dimensions just for an idea.
Any help would be really appreciated.
Many thanks.
Unfortunately you are going about this totally backwords, what you should have done is first define your goals(target SPL and bandwidth), then find a speaker design that meets those targets, and then buy the driver/s and amplifiers suited to those designs.
From what you have described to cover sounds from 0-10khz outside with any appreciable SPL you will need a massive stack of horn loaded enclosures, sorry if that is bad news but the laws of physics won't be broken. You will not be able to cover this range with a single speaker driver either unless you forget about reproducing everything below 100-200hz and use a fullrange driver.
So with that out of the way I'm sure your question will be just what can you get from the existing driver you have on hand. Can you post a model number for it?
From what you have described to cover sounds from 0-10khz outside with any appreciable SPL you will need a massive stack of horn loaded enclosures, sorry if that is bad news but the laws of physics won't be broken. You will not be able to cover this range with a single speaker driver either unless you forget about reproducing everything below 100-200hz and use a fullrange driver.
So with that out of the way I'm sure your question will be just what can you get from the existing driver you have on hand. Can you post a model number for it?
Thanks for getting back to me. Ha no problem, give it to me straight, its good to know what I am up against.
Yea that would be great to know where to go from here with what I have, or if there is a better driver suitable for the job.
I'm currently using a Visaton FR 13 WP 4 OHM full range driver.
Thanks again.
Yea that would be great to know where to go from here with what I have, or if there is a better driver suitable for the job.
I'm currently using a Visaton FR 13 WP 4 OHM full range driver.
Thanks again.
Alright, your only real option is a bass reflex or sealed enclosure, horns are out because you simply cannot cover the whole range with a single unit though you may be able to do it with a unity horn but you will have to research that some to see if it's something you want to tackle.
To get the most out of the driver you have(or any driver) in a reflex box download a copy of WinISD Pro LinearTeam and install it on your computer. Then download the pdf for the driver and build a driver file for it in WiniISD, and then model it.. For a sealed enclosure the size is pretty much a fixed number but for a ported enclosure you can play with the box volume and port tuning and see what effect that has on low frequency output. When you are doing this take note of driver excursion and port air velocity to make sure you don't exceed driver xmax and about 17m/s airspeed.
Now right away I can tell you're not going to get much more than about 95db out of this driver, it has very low(for a PA speaker) sensitivity and low power handling. How much amp power do you have? If you were to step up to a more traditional 2-way PA speaker design with a horn loaded compression driver you could potentially get another 20dB or more even with only 30-60w input, but if you had several hundred watt available you could potentially hit 130dB over an 80-12khz range or so depending upon the drivers used.
To get the most out of the driver you have(or any driver) in a reflex box download a copy of WinISD Pro LinearTeam and install it on your computer. Then download the pdf for the driver and build a driver file for it in WiniISD, and then model it.. For a sealed enclosure the size is pretty much a fixed number but for a ported enclosure you can play with the box volume and port tuning and see what effect that has on low frequency output. When you are doing this take note of driver excursion and port air velocity to make sure you don't exceed driver xmax and about 17m/s airspeed.
Now right away I can tell you're not going to get much more than about 95db out of this driver, it has very low(for a PA speaker) sensitivity and low power handling. How much amp power do you have? If you were to step up to a more traditional 2-way PA speaker design with a horn loaded compression driver you could potentially get another 20dB or more even with only 30-60w input, but if you had several hundred watt available you could potentially hit 130dB over an 80-12khz range or so depending upon the drivers used.
What sort of animal sounds? People here are getting hung up on the "0-" part of the frequency range spec you posted, which implies that you want extreme bass, but most animal sounds don't contain a great deal of low frequency energy.
Even a raging bull elephant trampling on the organ of the Zurich Tonhalle doesn't produce much energy at 0Hz. 🙂
Even a raging bull elephant trampling on the organ of the Zurich Tonhalle doesn't produce much energy at 0Hz. 🙂
Thanks for the help guys, that is really useful stuff.
No raging bulls i'm afraid 😛. The animals sounds are mainly birds. When I did the FFT on the sound files there was little below 100Hz. This was why I was uncertain what type of enclosure to use as I wasn't really looking at big bass sounds, as that wouldn't really sound like a bird, with a big booming bass!
The amp I have is 50W. It is not particularly high in terms of power as it will run off of a 24V battery - that is my limiting factor.
Going back to the choice of driver. Is a key part in the datasheet to look at, the SPL level? Is this what will tell me essentially how loud my driver can go?
Also can you clarify what you mean by a more traditional 2-way? Would that be a horn loaded driver for mid/high range and a woofer for the lower frequencies?
Thanks again
No raging bulls i'm afraid 😛. The animals sounds are mainly birds. When I did the FFT on the sound files there was little below 100Hz. This was why I was uncertain what type of enclosure to use as I wasn't really looking at big bass sounds, as that wouldn't really sound like a bird, with a big booming bass!
The amp I have is 50W. It is not particularly high in terms of power as it will run off of a 24V battery - that is my limiting factor.
Going back to the choice of driver. Is a key part in the datasheet to look at, the SPL level? Is this what will tell me essentially how loud my driver can go?
Also can you clarify what you mean by a more traditional 2-way? Would that be a horn loaded driver for mid/high range and a woofer for the lower frequencies?
Thanks again
Yeah you don't need to worry about bass response for that application, a single fullrange speaker in a small enclosure would do, look for a driver with the highest sensitivity possible.. up into the high '90's dB range, that is the output at 1w/1m and the higher that is the louder it will get overall.
Careful with how high you push the sensitivity, though. Drivers like the 12PE32 will only get down to about 160 Hz as a direct radiator. If that's low enough, fine. It wil be a small cabinet. If supply voltage is the limitation, you might want to think about a 4 ohm cab. A dual Delta 10A is pretty loud and will do a legitimate 100 Hz on the low end.
Don't skimp on the compresssion driver. In this application you'll have a lot of high frequency content and you need decent power handling. Use a real 1" exit bolt-on with a 1.75 or 2" coil. They start around $50.
Don't skimp on the compresssion driver. In this application you'll have a lot of high frequency content and you need decent power handling. Use a real 1" exit bolt-on with a 1.75 or 2" coil. They start around $50.
For higher efficiency I suggest you use a Guitar type speaker, always a few dB louder than similar Hi Fi ones.
They sacrifice flat response (no big deal) for efficiency, what you need 🙂
Look at the Jensen MOD speakers: loud and relatively inexpensive.
US SPEAKER - 12" Speakers - 12" bass speakers & 12" guitar speakers by Eminence Speaker, JBL, EV, RCF, Beyma, Peavey, Celestion, P.Audio, Ampeg, Crate, Jensen, Fane and Pyle. 12" bass speakers & 12" guitar speakers. Find the right 12" woofer here.
Mod 12/70 or C12N are very loud , the first one is available in 4 ohms if that suits your amplifier better.
Generic $5/10 Piezo tweeters which don't even need a crossover (are simply put in parallel with the main speaker) work well in this use, to extend the upper range, some of those chirps go quite high.
They sacrifice flat response (no big deal) for efficiency, what you need 🙂
Look at the Jensen MOD speakers: loud and relatively inexpensive.
US SPEAKER - 12" Speakers - 12" bass speakers & 12" guitar speakers by Eminence Speaker, JBL, EV, RCF, Beyma, Peavey, Celestion, P.Audio, Ampeg, Crate, Jensen, Fane and Pyle. 12" bass speakers & 12" guitar speakers. Find the right 12" woofer here.
Mod 12/70 or C12N are very loud , the first one is available in 4 ohms if that suits your amplifier better.
Generic $5/10 Piezo tweeters which don't even need a crossover (are simply put in parallel with the main speaker) work well in this use, to extend the upper range, some of those chirps go quite high.
Thanks for all the help. I have got a copy of WinISD and Boxsim which have both been really useful and I have had a go at prototyping some enclosures based on this that have been pretty successful.
The speaker is for outside so really looking for a weatherproof driver. Those guitar type speakers look pretty good, but would any of those be suitable for outdoor use. From what I can tell I need driver with mylar/PP/plastic cones for this? Anyone know a good website to find some suitable drivers?
Thanks again
The speaker is for outside so really looking for a weatherproof driver. Those guitar type speakers look pretty good, but would any of those be suitable for outdoor use. From what I can tell I need driver with mylar/PP/plastic cones for this? Anyone know a good website to find some suitable drivers?
Thanks again
Try USSpeaker at least to browse their huge catalog and then try to get your choice in the UK .
If you are mounting cabinets permanently outside, where they can get direct rain, weatherproof speakers (actually weatherproof cones) is just part of the problem, you must also really waterproof the cabinet , even a nail sized hole can let water in, connectors and hardware will rust, you must seal everything.
In similar cases I used a different approach: I built a reasonably conventional cabinet, mounted it on a pole, and put a "condom" over it, an upside down plastic bag.
In emergencies (say it started raining iduring a Rock Festival) just used a black garbage bag, but for permanent installations got a thicker, stronger bag at a construction supply shop, the kind used to pack sand or carry rubble away ... very strong.
I just put them upside down and left the bottom open, to let it "breathe" , otherwise condensation will still rust everything.
Just make sure there's some 10 cm free between speaker front and plastic sheet to avoid it buzzing.
Works very well and is acoustically transparent.
Plastic cone speakers will typically be 6 to 10 dB less efficient than a guitar or PA speaker 🙁
If you are mounting cabinets permanently outside, where they can get direct rain, weatherproof speakers (actually weatherproof cones) is just part of the problem, you must also really waterproof the cabinet , even a nail sized hole can let water in, connectors and hardware will rust, you must seal everything.
In similar cases I used a different approach: I built a reasonably conventional cabinet, mounted it on a pole, and put a "condom" over it, an upside down plastic bag.
In emergencies (say it started raining iduring a Rock Festival) just used a black garbage bag, but for permanent installations got a thicker, stronger bag at a construction supply shop, the kind used to pack sand or carry rubble away ... very strong.
I just put them upside down and left the bottom open, to let it "breathe" , otherwise condensation will still rust everything.
Just make sure there's some 10 cm free between speaker front and plastic sheet to avoid it buzzing.
Works very well and is acoustically transparent.
Plastic cone speakers will typically be 6 to 10 dB less efficient than a guitar or PA speaker 🙁
You can buy ready-made weatherproof speakers. Here's a pair at CPC.
952.518UK - ADASTRA - SPEAKER, IN/OUTDOOR IP35, 4", | CPC
952.518UK - ADASTRA - SPEAKER, IN/OUTDOOR IP35, 4", | CPC
Thanks JMFahey, USSpeaker was a really good recommendation. I spoke to one of the guys there and they were really helpful and out me on the right track to get some good waterproof speakers from Faital Pro.
And yea I think waterproofing the whole unit might end up being a route I go down.
Thanks
And yea I think waterproofing the whole unit might end up being a route I go down.
Thanks
Please consider the wildlife.
Hi Alex!
I hope that your project turned out fine in the meantime. However please be considerate when playing animal sounds outdoors. Animals react to them and wildlife can be severely disturbed. See for example the following reports:
Bird Song Apps That Endanger Birds | TakePart
BBC News - Birdsong phone apps 'harmful' to birds, say Dorset experts
All the best
ElEsido
Hi Alex!
I hope that your project turned out fine in the meantime. However please be considerate when playing animal sounds outdoors. Animals react to them and wildlife can be severely disturbed. See for example the following reports:
Bird Song Apps That Endanger Birds | TakePart
BBC News - Birdsong phone apps 'harmful' to birds, say Dorset experts
All the best
ElEsido
try this. it is a 10in. 10 watt goodman. it is said to be heard 5 miles away. it was used at isle of wight concerts. Charie Watkins RIP l
Waterproofing your own drivers isn't that difficult, spray on fabsil (tent waterproofing) is what some pro pa manufactures use. coupled with a foam grill treated the same way, your drivers will cope with most weather conditions.
The demo for this I saw was a 18" driver treated and left to dry for 48hrs, then filled with water and left for a week.
The demo for this I saw was a 18" driver treated and left to dry for 48hrs, then filled with water and left for a week.
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