Hi there,
I'm working on a small arcade cabinet design and I need some advice on the audio side of things. I'm trying to keep the budget to max 100€ for the audio system
I came with 2 ideas of what can be done but I've got not experience building speakers so any advice is welcome:
1. Use ceiling speakers in the body of the arcade without any separate enclosure wired to a small lepai amp. example
2. Since I'm building the entire cabinet from scratch I could build speakers enclosures in. The cabinet could be divided to fit a 2 speaker enclosures. Again use lepai for amplification. This would require more work and I'd probably buy a kit such as this . What do you guys think ? Any suggestions ?
3. buy a couple of full range cheap speakers such as this
There is also the question of positioning. They can be placed on the front panel (possibly a port on the side of the cabinet ?); or on the side panels as in the below picture.
What about bluetooth functionality ? How can I add than in one of these setups?
I'd like to mention the approximate dimensions of the available space:
50cm wide * 40cm tall * 40cm deep
I'm attaching here a simple sketch of the cab I'm building and a picture from a arcade cabinet with speakers for an idea on what kind of look i would like for my speakers
Thanks for taking the time to read this,
Regards,
Raz
I'm working on a small arcade cabinet design and I need some advice on the audio side of things. I'm trying to keep the budget to max 100€ for the audio system
I came with 2 ideas of what can be done but I've got not experience building speakers so any advice is welcome:
1. Use ceiling speakers in the body of the arcade without any separate enclosure wired to a small lepai amp. example
2. Since I'm building the entire cabinet from scratch I could build speakers enclosures in. The cabinet could be divided to fit a 2 speaker enclosures. Again use lepai for amplification. This would require more work and I'd probably buy a kit such as this . What do you guys think ? Any suggestions ?
3. buy a couple of full range cheap speakers such as this
There is also the question of positioning. They can be placed on the front panel (possibly a port on the side of the cabinet ?); or on the side panels as in the below picture.
What about bluetooth functionality ? How can I add than in one of these setups?
I'd like to mention the approximate dimensions of the available space:
50cm wide * 40cm tall * 40cm deep
I'm attaching here a simple sketch of the cab I'm building and a picture from a arcade cabinet with speakers for an idea on what kind of look i would like for my speakers
Thanks for taking the time to read this,
Regards,
Raz
Attachments
I suspect the arcade enclosure doesn't have a speaker enclosure but just uses the whole cabinet. This should give the sound plenty of bass.
I would have guessed 20 WRMS would be enough power.
I would have guessed 20 WRMS would be enough power.
If this is PURELY for games, it doesn't matter which way the speakers are pointing, so the second layout pictured (black cabinet with white stripe) is totally fine. I built a coffee-table MAME cabinet, where the speakers 'fired' at the player's shins, and I was totally satisfied with the sound for gaming. I also like that second picture, for the no-glare screen and sharp looks.
As Nigel said, you need not enclose the speakers. It would probably be better not to: budget woofers typically have small magnets. This gives properties (high Qts) which suit big or open-backed cabinets.
If you wish to use the cabinet for anything else (as a normal PC / dukebox / media station), then you'll probably want the speakers to point at your face. Therefore a 2.1 system (subwoofer and satellites) would be better: the sub part can use the the body of the cabinet, and the satellites could be placed higher - built into its roof, or alongside the screen.
The little Vifa drivers would be fine. There are dozens of good options like it. If an oval driver would be a good fit (e.g. to mount alongside the screen), you might consider the Visaton SL 713 - 4 Ohm - they will play a louder from a small amp (more efficient and lower impedance).
In a budget project, always see what you can score free or second hand first 🙂
-Lots of old TVs are being trashed. If you can extract the speakers from what was once a high end TV, you'll likely have something better than was installed in most arcade cabs.
-You could make a Frankenstein system: take the electronics and satellite drivers from a generic PC 2.1 system (if you already have one, or can get one cheaply), and replace the 10cm "subwoofer" with a much bigger woofer, to take advantage of the size of your cabinet.
As Nigel said, you need not enclose the speakers. It would probably be better not to: budget woofers typically have small magnets. This gives properties (high Qts) which suit big or open-backed cabinets.
If you wish to use the cabinet for anything else (as a normal PC / dukebox / media station), then you'll probably want the speakers to point at your face. Therefore a 2.1 system (subwoofer and satellites) would be better: the sub part can use the the body of the cabinet, and the satellites could be placed higher - built into its roof, or alongside the screen.
The little Vifa drivers would be fine. There are dozens of good options like it. If an oval driver would be a good fit (e.g. to mount alongside the screen), you might consider the Visaton SL 713 - 4 Ohm - they will play a louder from a small amp (more efficient and lower impedance).
In a budget project, always see what you can score free or second hand first 🙂
-Lots of old TVs are being trashed. If you can extract the speakers from what was once a high end TV, you'll likely have something better than was installed in most arcade cabs.
-You could make a Frankenstein system: take the electronics and satellite drivers from a generic PC 2.1 system (if you already have one, or can get one cheaply), and replace the 10cm "subwoofer" with a much bigger woofer, to take advantage of the size of your cabinet.
Neat project. I used to work in a video arcade and I built my first Mame cabinet in 1998.
If u wanted to keep it simple, do a two way with mids and tweets on each side of the cab. There's no need for anything expensive because you're listening in the near field, so SPL demands are low.
If you want to go crazy, you could build a Mame cabinet into a Synergy Horn. It would be mono and the monitor would be placed on the inner wall of the horn.
Another way to do it would use a reflector for the monitor. Taito did this trick in the cabinet for "Ninja Warriors"
If u wanted to keep it simple, do a two way with mids and tweets on each side of the cab. There's no need for anything expensive because you're listening in the near field, so SPL demands are low.
If you want to go crazy, you could build a Mame cabinet into a Synergy Horn. It would be mono and the monitor would be placed on the inner wall of the horn.
Another way to do it would use a reflector for the monitor. Taito did this trick in the cabinet for "Ninja Warriors"
If anyone's curious, here's the ninja warrior setup.
Monitor fires UP and the output of three displays are combined on a mirror.
In the dark, it looks like the display is in front of you, not below you. This could be handy for putting the speakers in front of you while the monitor is below.
Nigel, Hollowboy, Patrick, thanks for the input.
Putting a 2 way system on each side of the cab sound like a good idea and can have a nice flush look with the cabinet. Considering this option: (mid-woofer+tweeter)*2, how would you guys set them up ? If they are just mounted on the wall of the cabinet (18mm mdf) using the complete space (circa 80 litres) as a speaker box wouldn't the drivers interfere with each other ? Should the cabinet be split into 2 compartments of 20l each ? can you recommend a kit or individual drivers that can fit the 100 euro budget ?
The suggestion using 2 satellites above the screen or in the roof is nice but i'm not happy with the look would give to the entire cabinet. I would choose form over function in this respect.
Had to google the synergy horn, guess it's a bit much 😛
Putting a 2 way system on each side of the cab sound like a good idea and can have a nice flush look with the cabinet. Considering this option: (mid-woofer+tweeter)*2, how would you guys set them up ? If they are just mounted on the wall of the cabinet (18mm mdf) using the complete space (circa 80 litres) as a speaker box wouldn't the drivers interfere with each other ? Should the cabinet be split into 2 compartments of 20l each ? can you recommend a kit or individual drivers that can fit the 100 euro budget ?
The suggestion using 2 satellites above the screen or in the roof is nice but i'm not happy with the look would give to the entire cabinet. I would choose form over function in this respect.
Had to google the synergy horn, guess it's a bit much 😛
Whoa! Lets not get too stOOpid with the hi-fi.
May be crunching less than 2 bit audios here.
You need to think ahead how you can roll-off
and/or attenuate undesirable highs that most
original games would not have been equipped
to produce.
May be crunching less than 2 bit audios here.
You need to think ahead how you can roll-off
and/or attenuate undesirable highs that most
original games would not have been equipped
to produce.
Wouldn't turning down the treble on the amp to the trick ?
I've used emulators on pc though speakers and headphones and I haven't encountered issues with the highs.
I would like to be able to play some music as well (hence the question about bluetooth integration). The cabinet takes quite some space I'd like to use it for more than just occasional playing sessions with friends.
I am very much aware that the audio quality will suffer due to the side placement of the drivers but I'm willing to live with that as long as it can top a pair of 50$ computer speakers.
I've spotted a mistake in my earlier post. I meant to write: 80l total volume or 2 compartments of 40l each.
I've used emulators on pc though speakers and headphones and I haven't encountered issues with the highs.
I would like to be able to play some music as well (hence the question about bluetooth integration). The cabinet takes quite some space I'd like to use it for more than just occasional playing sessions with friends.
I am very much aware that the audio quality will suffer due to the side placement of the drivers but I'm willing to live with that as long as it can top a pair of 50$ computer speakers.
I've spotted a mistake in my earlier post. I meant to write: 80l total volume or 2 compartments of 40l each.
I'm looking in my Bally cabinet now, and they used only 3 of 4 screws.
Mind you, its behind a grill, so not going to fall out, but just saying...
No whizzer cones, no tweeter, and unshielded magnet half size of your
suggested tc9whatever. Right next to gaping hole where 27" monitor
used to be, with only a piece of wood in-between. I have no idea how
they got away with it.
I would assume you are not obsessing for an old school raster monitor
that wants magnetic shielding. Get you the highest resolution you can
though, as its essential for faking various lower res without artifacts.
Mind you, its behind a grill, so not going to fall out, but just saying...
No whizzer cones, no tweeter, and unshielded magnet half size of your
suggested tc9whatever. Right next to gaping hole where 27" monitor
used to be, with only a piece of wood in-between. I have no idea how
they got away with it.
I would assume you are not obsessing for an old school raster monitor
that wants magnetic shielding. Get you the highest resolution you can
though, as its essential for faking various lower res without artifacts.
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Kenpeter, thanks for the sharing the info about your cab.
I've got and old crt monitor actually, and as for now i'm planning to use that. I'm taking into consideration the possibility to swap it for an lcd when/if it fails.
Magnetic shielding would't be a problem if the speakers are side mounted under the monitor, or would it ? Also side mounting will allow me to use larger speakers.
So, what would you suggest ? Go with a 2 way on each side ? Divide the enclosure into 2 (40 litres each) ? What drivers would you guys choose within the power of a small lepai amp?
I've got and old crt monitor actually, and as for now i'm planning to use that. I'm taking into consideration the possibility to swap it for an lcd when/if it fails.
Magnetic shielding would't be a problem if the speakers are side mounted under the monitor, or would it ? Also side mounting will allow me to use larger speakers.
So, what would you suggest ? Go with a 2 way on each side ? Divide the enclosure into 2 (40 litres each) ? What drivers would you guys choose within the power of a small lepai amp?
The low budget and the side placement (form over function) are limitations. The side mounting means you will be listening well off axis, and thus there will be little high frequency sound reaching your ears. Therefore I think any cheap and cheerful solution is as good as any other, including taking parts from salvage or garage sale speakers.
Car audio can be pretty good, despite having the same limitations you have. Often cars will mount a 10-20cm speaker in the doors, at roughly knee height, and have additional smaller drivers firing up from the dash, so their high frequency sound splashes off the windshield. You could try the equivalent. I assume you'd set it up so that the path lengths are the same - so the first reflection of the additional tweeters off the screen hits your ears at the same time as the sound from the side-mounted drivers.
The cheapest / easiest way could be to buy 2 fairly big 2-ways from a thrift store. Mount one pair in the cabinet sides, and rip the tweeters from the other pair to mount in the cabinet roof for reflection off the screen.
Maybe check some builds on car audio forums in case I'm talking nonsense 🙂
Car audio can be pretty good, despite having the same limitations you have. Often cars will mount a 10-20cm speaker in the doors, at roughly knee height, and have additional smaller drivers firing up from the dash, so their high frequency sound splashes off the windshield. You could try the equivalent. I assume you'd set it up so that the path lengths are the same - so the first reflection of the additional tweeters off the screen hits your ears at the same time as the sound from the side-mounted drivers.
The cheapest / easiest way could be to buy 2 fairly big 2-ways from a thrift store. Mount one pair in the cabinet sides, and rip the tweeters from the other pair to mount in the cabinet roof for reflection off the screen.
Maybe check some builds on car audio forums in case I'm talking nonsense 🙂
Thanks hollowboy ! You've sum'd it up very well. I'm going to look around see what i can find .
I haven't thought about car audio but seeing that they also sell into separates with built-in crossover I'm starting to take that into consideration as well.
Man, so many options !!! And I thought this will be the easy part of the build.
Cheers
I haven't thought about car audio but seeing that they also sell into separates with built-in crossover I'm starting to take that into consideration as well.
Man, so many options !!! And I thought this will be the easy part of the build.
Cheers
Just to clarify: you don't specifically need car audio components, I was just suggesting you borrow mounting ideas from a typical car 'split' system.
For additional HF you could use something as simple as:
2* Dayton Audio ND16FA-6 5/8" Neodymium Dome Tweeter
2* 1uF capacitors
I suggest these tweeters because they are cheap, use neo magnets (should be OK to mount near a monitor), are small and black, allowing for near-invisible mounting at the back of the monitor.
You could also mount them directly into the 'roof' panel of your cabinet, so their output splashes off the screen at you.
Whichever tweeter position you go with, when you make cutouts to mount your main speakers into the sides, try to position them so that the distance between them and your ears is the same as the path from the tweeters to your ears.
that tweeter looks great and cheap !!! thanks for the input on mounting position.
Now, I'm getting closer to understand where I'll be heading. Definitely these tweeters and capacitors are in the shopping cart.
One last thing, Do you think using the Tang Band W4-1052SD without any crossover together with the tweeter you recommended(with the capacitors) would work ?
Thanks !!!
Now, I'm getting closer to understand where I'll be heading. Definitely these tweeters and capacitors are in the shopping cart.
One last thing, Do you think using the Tang Band W4-1052SD without any crossover together with the tweeter you recommended(with the capacitors) would work ?
Thanks !!!
That Tang Band is workable, and running mains with no crossover makes sense for the budget and application.
However, I'd suggest something bigger. Small full range drivers can have virtues such as a flat on-axis response, but most of these qualities will be lost in your application, since you will be listening more than 90 degrees off axis.
Also, the Tang Band is:
-lower sensitivity than the tweeters, so you'd need to pad the tweeters down substantially (reduce their output).
-optimised for a small cabinet, which seems like a waste when you have about 80litres to use.
In this instance, I'd suggest a really cheap and cheerful twin cone driver. Something like this: GRS 8FR-8 Full-Range 8" Speaker Pioneer Type B20FU20-51FW
...or you could pick something similar up from a local electronics shop or other retailer (and save on postage).
The 8" driver being bigger and +4dB louder are good things. For $46, you could even get four drivers, and run 2 per side (assuming your amp was OK with a 4-ohm load). 2 watts into 4 of the cheap 8" drivers = same output as 10watts into a pair of the 4" Tang Band. This is nice, both for extracting the most from a small amplifier, and to be able to play a bit louder without stressing the system.
When making your purchases, you may wish to get a few extra crossover parts and some (alligator) clips, so you can experiment with the tweeter's output.
-a few resistors (e.g. a pair of 4ohm, 12.5ohm)
-another pair of small capacitors (e.g. 1.5uF)
-a pair of small inductors (e.g. 0.38mH, $1.10 each at Parts Express buyout)
The total crossover parts pile (10 items) would cost about $12 from Parts Express.
-you could see if you prefer 1uF or 1.5uF (1st order crossover)
-if the tweeter is a bit too loud, 4ohm in series and 12ohm across it would drop the output by roughly -2dB
-you could try a lower, 2nd order crossover. Using both capacitors (to get 2.5uF) + a 0.38hM inductor = a 2nd order (Linkwitz/Riley) crossover at 5000Hz
However, I'd suggest something bigger. Small full range drivers can have virtues such as a flat on-axis response, but most of these qualities will be lost in your application, since you will be listening more than 90 degrees off axis.
Also, the Tang Band is:
-lower sensitivity than the tweeters, so you'd need to pad the tweeters down substantially (reduce their output).
-optimised for a small cabinet, which seems like a waste when you have about 80litres to use.
In this instance, I'd suggest a really cheap and cheerful twin cone driver. Something like this: GRS 8FR-8 Full-Range 8" Speaker Pioneer Type B20FU20-51FW
...or you could pick something similar up from a local electronics shop or other retailer (and save on postage).
The 8" driver being bigger and +4dB louder are good things. For $46, you could even get four drivers, and run 2 per side (assuming your amp was OK with a 4-ohm load). 2 watts into 4 of the cheap 8" drivers = same output as 10watts into a pair of the 4" Tang Band. This is nice, both for extracting the most from a small amplifier, and to be able to play a bit louder without stressing the system.
When making your purchases, you may wish to get a few extra crossover parts and some (alligator) clips, so you can experiment with the tweeter's output.
-a few resistors (e.g. a pair of 4ohm, 12.5ohm)
-another pair of small capacitors (e.g. 1.5uF)
-a pair of small inductors (e.g. 0.38mH, $1.10 each at Parts Express buyout)
The total crossover parts pile (10 items) would cost about $12 from Parts Express.
-you could see if you prefer 1uF or 1.5uF (1st order crossover)
-if the tweeter is a bit too loud, 4ohm in series and 12ohm across it would drop the output by roughly -2dB
-you could try a lower, 2nd order crossover. Using both capacitors (to get 2.5uF) + a 0.38hM inductor = a 2nd order (Linkwitz/Riley) crossover at 5000Hz
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