Hello!
I am splitting my guitar signal before the amp input so that I have two identical signals of which one is being fed into channel 1 and the ther into channel 2.
This allows me to create vary the effects on each signal to emulate two guitars playing simultaneously.
I am using a Y splitter cable to do this. I.e. the guitar mono signal is being fed into a stereo cable (with appropriate connectors) to produce two mono signals for each channel.
I am wondering wheher there is a better way to achieve the same? e.g. a "signal splitting box" or similar?
Thank you!
I am splitting my guitar signal before the amp input so that I have two identical signals of which one is being fed into channel 1 and the ther into channel 2.
This allows me to create vary the effects on each signal to emulate two guitars playing simultaneously.
I am using a Y splitter cable to do this. I.e. the guitar mono signal is being fed into a stereo cable (with appropriate connectors) to produce two mono signals for each channel.
I am wondering wheher there is a better way to achieve the same? e.g. a "signal splitting box" or similar?
Thank you!
Plain old Y-cord, not stereo.
Yes, they make active splitters. But the first question is this: does the plain Y-cord give good results? If so, why would something else be "better"? We call them A/B switches or A/B/Y switches. An A/B is just that, plug guitar in and select A or B output. The A/B/Y has the third option of both. They make lots of them passive - a Y-cord with switches essentially - and some are active, which means little op amp circuits to buffer teh inputs and outputs. Active boxes prevent potential unwanted interactions of passive systems. You are using it on one amp, but it could also be used with two separate amps.
Google A/B/Y active switch (or box) for many examples.
Yes, they make active splitters. But the first question is this: does the plain Y-cord give good results? If so, why would something else be "better"? We call them A/B switches or A/B/Y switches. An A/B is just that, plug guitar in and select A or B output. The A/B/Y has the third option of both. They make lots of them passive - a Y-cord with switches essentially - and some are active, which means little op amp circuits to buffer teh inputs and outputs. Active boxes prevent potential unwanted interactions of passive systems. You are using it on one amp, but it could also be used with two separate amps.
Google A/B/Y active switch (or box) for many examples.
Hi Enzo,
Thanks for the suggestion about the A/B/Y box.
Interesting to note that the same issues that I've encountered seem to have been experienced by others using an A/B/Y box. That is, there seems to be some interference between the two outputs. The accounts that others have given of this have occurred where the two "identical" signals were fed into two different amps. In my case however I'm putting the two signals into the same amp (Marshall AS100D).
I am also using a volume pedal on one channel so that I can cut it out entirely. The results are pretty good I think but finding the right connectors to produce a good split signal has been something of a challenge. What I am now using is a mono instrument cable from my electro acoustic into an adapter (1/4" F socket to 1/4" Male stereo plug) fed into a stereo coupler (1/4" F socket to 1/4" F socket) connected to a Planet Waves Y-splitter cable (1 x 1/4" stereo plug to 2x 1/4" mono plugs).
I've never attempted this before so I'm just checking as to whether there is a better way to achieve the same end. I can report that there is no ground loop hum (obvious perhaps). I have attempted to produce the same sound through both channels which with much tweaking of the separate channel EQs and levels is almost possible, but not exact.
Thanks for the suggestion about the A/B/Y box.
Interesting to note that the same issues that I've encountered seem to have been experienced by others using an A/B/Y box. That is, there seems to be some interference between the two outputs. The accounts that others have given of this have occurred where the two "identical" signals were fed into two different amps. In my case however I'm putting the two signals into the same amp (Marshall AS100D).
I am also using a volume pedal on one channel so that I can cut it out entirely. The results are pretty good I think but finding the right connectors to produce a good split signal has been something of a challenge. What I am now using is a mono instrument cable from my electro acoustic into an adapter (1/4" F socket to 1/4" Male stereo plug) fed into a stereo coupler (1/4" F socket to 1/4" F socket) connected to a Planet Waves Y-splitter cable (1 x 1/4" stereo plug to 2x 1/4" mono plugs).
I've never attempted this before so I'm just checking as to whether there is a better way to achieve the same end. I can report that there is no ground loop hum (obvious perhaps). I have attempted to produce the same sound through both channels which with much tweaking of the separate channel EQs and levels is almost possible, but not exact.
The output impedance of a guitar is quite (horribly) high. If you're feeding two amps simultaneously by splitting it, yes, any loading from one amp will also change the signal entering the second amp.
Normal guitar amps have a triode (usually a 12AX7) in the input stage. These have quite a lot of input capacitance due to the Miller effect. Your Y-cable effectively puts both inputs in parallel, and may cause the dreaded "tone suck", i.e., treble loss.
Why not use some sort of buffer pedal between the guitar and the Y-cable? This will have a low output impedance, and that should be able to feed a Y-cable and the doubled-up input capacitance of two amps without problems.
If you're like most guitarists, you probably already have a pedal you can press into service - a clean boost pedal, or an EQ pedal set flat, or maybe even an overdrive with the gain turned well down so it acts as a clean boost/buffer.
I tend to use a Danelectro Fish-n-Chips (7 band graphic EQ plus clean boost) when I need a buffer. They're inexpensive, quiet, and work very well.
-Gnobuddy
Active ABY switches are buffered to help prevent this. PAssive ABY switches are just plain old switches in a box.
One potential problem feeding two channels is if they have a different number of stages. Each stage inverts the signal, so if one channel has an odd number of stages and the other even, then when they merge, you will have cancellation. That is not the ABY's fault.
One potential problem feeding two channels is if they have a different number of stages. Each stage inverts the signal, so if one channel has an odd number of stages and the other even, then when they merge, you will have cancellation. That is not the ABY's fault.
Those are the only type I've encountered so far.
I like the idea of an active one. That might be a quick design project for me when I have some free time. Something like a tiny two-input active mixer with buffered inputs and a foot-switch. That way, it can also make minor gain changes to each channel as well as adding or selecting between them.
-Gnobuddy
You can add a buffer such as Craig Baker's "Li'L Izzy" to your A/B/Y box---that will eliminate any interaction and also any excessive loading in the Y position.
Thanks guys for your helpful comments.
I have found that I am able to produce two idential signals by feeding the guitar signal (1/4" TS jack) into channel 1 of an ART DTI unit (ART Pro Audio). From the ART DTI, I can then feed two signals to the amp, one via the DTI (channel 1) 1/4 phone output to amp channel 1 and the other signal via the DTI (also channel 1) XLR to amp channel 2. I think this should achieve what you were suggesting Gnobuddy? I.e. will it produce a low impedance signal to each channel of the amplifier (Marshall AS100D)? I don't know whether the DTI will change a high impedance signal to a low impedance signal. In terms of sound, it gives a good result, but I find very little difference between this configuration and the Y-splitter cable that I am presently using.
I should add that with the Y-splitter cable configuration I am sending the second signal through a delay pedal (BOSS DD-7) before feeding it into channel 2 of the amp. I think any "interference" I have noticed may arise from the different EQs available for use on channels 1 (4 dials) and channel 2 (2 dials) of the amp. With sufficient tweaking the sound from each channel is similar if not identical.
I am now wondering whether in the Y-splitter cable configuration) the second signal (fed through delay pedal) is low impedance, whilst the first (direct) signal from guitar to channel 1 of the amp is high impedance and if that serves to eliminate interference/cancellation of sound output from channels 1 and 2 of the amp?
Many Thanks,
Gareth
I have found that I am able to produce two idential signals by feeding the guitar signal (1/4" TS jack) into channel 1 of an ART DTI unit (ART Pro Audio). From the ART DTI, I can then feed two signals to the amp, one via the DTI (channel 1) 1/4 phone output to amp channel 1 and the other signal via the DTI (also channel 1) XLR to amp channel 2. I think this should achieve what you were suggesting Gnobuddy? I.e. will it produce a low impedance signal to each channel of the amplifier (Marshall AS100D)? I don't know whether the DTI will change a high impedance signal to a low impedance signal. In terms of sound, it gives a good result, but I find very little difference between this configuration and the Y-splitter cable that I am presently using.
I should add that with the Y-splitter cable configuration I am sending the second signal through a delay pedal (BOSS DD-7) before feeding it into channel 2 of the amp. I think any "interference" I have noticed may arise from the different EQs available for use on channels 1 (4 dials) and channel 2 (2 dials) of the amp. With sufficient tweaking the sound from each channel is similar if not identical.
I am now wondering whether in the Y-splitter cable configuration) the second signal (fed through delay pedal) is low impedance, whilst the first (direct) signal from guitar to channel 1 of the amp is high impedance and if that serves to eliminate interference/cancellation of sound output from channels 1 and 2 of the amp?
Many Thanks,
Gareth
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I agree. This way, you have the normal amp loading on the guitar itself, but the signal to the second amp is buffered by your DI unit, so that the second amp doesn't add any additional loading to the guitar. Sounds like a good scheme to me.
I have a few ART bits and pieces too, and I like the stuff they make. It works well, and is affordable.
Why not test it with a humbucker-equipped guitar, set to single pickup, with the volume pot turned down? Those are the conditions that usually trigger the most "tone suck" (treble loss). If it still sounds good to you under those conditions with just a passive y-cable, then clearly you don't need the buffer.
Aha. The DD-7 is acting as a buffer in this case. You probably don't need the ART unit, then.
Exactly!
-Gnobuddy
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