I'll agree with turk 182!
A 10" subwoofer should work happily up to 200 Hz, by which time the midrange woofer will have kicked in.
A 10" subwoofer should work happily up to 200 Hz, by which time the midrange woofer will have kicked in.
It really depends on the driver and crossover slope you choose. Many would work well, many would not.
To ensure extended HF look for one with a low inductance such as the AE TD10M that's good to 1 kHz, though for your app look for one that's nominally flat to ~500 Hz.
The doubt comes to me because looking at technical data sheets of, for example, 15-inch Tannoys, the moving mass of the woofer is 110g and they work up to 1000hz, or 1,200hz. So I thought, that maybe a 12-inch subwoofer with 100g of moving mass could work up to 250hz with dignity.
Santiago
Santiago
I cross a 10" Scanspeak 26W8534G00 subwoofer at 250Hz in one build and it even can go higher if i want (untill 500Hz). But not all can do that. It really depends on the driver and it's specs.
I, too, like the OP have been interested in this topic. As I have an active crossover on the way and a pair of HSU VTF-2 subs. I want to be able to crossover between 100-400hz to pair with various high efficiency tops. I took some frequency response measurements in test cabs a while back. Although I didn't save them, I remember the HSU's rolling off after a couple hundred hertz. So I went comparing the HSU specs to other 10" drivers. The HSU has inductance on par or lower than various 10" woofers. So that's not a clear indicator. What I started to notice was a trend relating to cone weight(MMS) and suspension stiffness(CMS). And came to the following generalizations.
Subwoofers - heavy cones, stiff suspension
Hifi woofers - light/medium cones, medium/loose suspension
Pro woofers - light/medium cones, stiff suspension
While these are not hard and fast rules. They are an indicator of what the driver was designed for. With an MMS of 50g and CMS of 0.95. I would say that Scanspeak falls under the hifi woofers category
Subwoofers - heavy cones, stiff suspension
Hifi woofers - light/medium cones, medium/loose suspension
Pro woofers - light/medium cones, stiff suspension
While these are not hard and fast rules. They are an indicator of what the driver was designed for. With an MMS of 50g and CMS of 0.95. I would say that Scanspeak falls under the hifi woofers category
On the ScanSpeak website the 26W/8534 is listed as a woofer, not a sub. I have a pair of the 4 ohm version, which I use up to 600 Hz. Definitely woofer territory, surely.
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that is the first time i hear a definition like that.
I would more define it by it's fs and frequency passband. That's how i learned it from elder speaker designers i know
<50Hz response is a subwoofer for me
And the difference between pro woofers and hifi woofers is not that fixed, many drivers work in both settings, and what defines a pro woofer is how it can handle direct sun and rain/moisture, not the mms or cms. I and many others use so called pro woofers and pro subwoofers in hifi settings also. And commercial builders, like JBL, Altec Lansing (in the past) and many others did the same.
the Scanspeak can play both roles, that is true, but saying it's not a subwoofer is ******** i think, it's both a woofer and subwoofer in one driver. And what the marketing talk on their website says is very irrelevant, i look at specs, not at marketing talk. It's a driver made the oldskool way, when the bass driver (like they said it then) covers woofer and subwoofer territory.
These work but instead of a 10"s they employ 12" peerless subwoofers down low.
I'm very intrigued to DIY my own version.
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I have never come across a good definition of "woofer" vs "subwoofer" that actually makes a meaningful distiction between the two. In Pro sound reinforcement (live venues), 40 Hz is subwoofer territory. In my hifi world, if the speaker can't make 32 Hz in the room, it is not even a high fidelity speaker. To me, subwoofer means 16 Hz - 30 Hz, at an SPL of at least 96 dB. But in other worlds, other rules apply, and trying to achieve 16-30 Hz performance at a 10,000 seat concert hall would be a silly waste of time and money.
So from my perspective, no 10" driver could ever really be a subwoofer, because no 10" driver will have the volume displacement necessary to generate 96+ dB SPL, in the room, with low distortion. My room has a pair of 12" sealed box woofers as the bass bins, but I don't think of them as subwoofers. I get high SPL bass down to about 25 Hz, but below that, the response is dropping... i.e. Woofers, very good woofers yes, but not subwoofers. And I don't need or want a subwoofer.
So I think it is a little silly to argue about whether a given driver is a "woofer" or a "subwoofer". Better to focus on what that driver can actually do in a given cabinet, and whether it's upper-bass / lower-midrange performance is suitable to cross to the expected midrange driver.
j.
So from my perspective, no 10" driver could ever really be a subwoofer, because no 10" driver will have the volume displacement necessary to generate 96+ dB SPL, in the room, with low distortion. My room has a pair of 12" sealed box woofers as the bass bins, but I don't think of them as subwoofers. I get high SPL bass down to about 25 Hz, but below that, the response is dropping... i.e. Woofers, very good woofers yes, but not subwoofers. And I don't need or want a subwoofer.
So I think it is a little silly to argue about whether a given driver is a "woofer" or a "subwoofer". Better to focus on what that driver can actually do in a given cabinet, and whether it's upper-bass / lower-midrange performance is suitable to cross to the expected midrange driver.
j.
Other than pipe organs why else would someone wish to apply true subwoofers? Not including home theatre when bass often goes lower than the music I listen to. If it is capable of reproducing a solid kick drum and a slap guitar, and occasional organ what else is there?
My subs are similar, sealed and wonderful. Not that ported don't have a place too. Good vented subs can be done to sound as good as sealed. I think it take more to achieve, the stars should align all the way from the sub design to the exit at the port. I don't think multi- purpose subs can do either well as one or the other. Despite claims by manufacturers.
My subs are similar, sealed and wonderful. Not that ported don't have a place too. Good vented subs can be done to sound as good as sealed. I think it take more to achieve, the stars should align all the way from the sub design to the exit at the port. I don't think multi- purpose subs can do either well as one or the other. Despite claims by manufacturers.
Regarding definitions, surely normal usage is roughly as follows: 'woofer' refers to a driver within a multiway loudspeaker, covering the low frequency range. And 'subwoofer' refers to a separate enclosure, often with its own amplifier and crossover, designed to supplement a multiway or single-driver loudspeaker, covering the lowest frequencies. Whether any particular driver should be described as a woofer or a subwoofer driver is really a question of how it tends to be used - within a multiway speaker, or as a driver in a separate subwoofer unit. Of course, there may be drivers suited to both types of use. (And there may be occasional cases where you might says that a speaker has a built in subwoofer - the Gallo in the photo above could be described that way, I guess.)
The Gallo comes with a pretty nice separate active low octave amplifier. More or less what I currently use on my two channel subs. At lower volumes only. I would certainly describe all of the above as subwoofers. The vacum cleaner drowns everything out but the subs. My neighbor doesn't like them much either. I try to oblige the nurse her sleep.
Anyone try Marchand crossovers? I almost pulled the trigger one one but got something else instead.
Anyone try Marchand crossovers? I almost pulled the trigger one one but got something else instead.
