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Dunno as it compares favorably with the KEF coax: KEF LS50 or SVS Ultra in a 2.0 setup? : hometheater
GM
GM
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I gather that they take a paper cone driver and 'paint' it with some surface treatment. Whether this is something the manufacturer of the driver does or it's exclusive to them I don't know. The tweeter looks like they've taken something off the shelf and added some plastic thingy, call it a phase plug in ignorance.
They are basically the DA25BG08-06, and either 830990 6.5" glass fiber, or 830991 5.25" version. My guess is the 830991, due to the size.
I also read recently where Tymphany either has stock in, partners with, or owns SVS.
I'm fuzzy on the absolute details.
Later,
Wolf
I also read recently where Tymphany either has stock in, partners with, or owns SVS.
I'm fuzzy on the absolute details.
Later,
Wolf
We have hundreds of this kind of small 2-way recipes. Nice format, but needs a subwoofer for hifi.
Tymphany - Peerless HDS-P830990 spec shows Fs=46Hz.... Too high for a good 6.5" midbass design.
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....the latest popular 6.5" + 1" threads on diyAudio use:
$$.. Satori Papyrus midwoofer MW16P-4 Fs=28Hz with either Satori TW29P-4 or SB29RDC-4
$... Aluminum SB17NAC35-4 Fs=32Hz with Aluminum SB26ADC-4 or small diameter cloth SB26STCN-4
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A few month ago, reduced-breakup poly-plastic cone midranges were popular, helped by low cost crossovers.
$...Poly Plastic SB17MFC35-4 FS=30Hz
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A reduced diffraction cabinet improves sound quality, but also increases height.
-----
....the latest popular 6.5" + 1" threads on diyAudio use:
$$.. Satori Papyrus midwoofer MW16P-4 Fs=28Hz with either Satori TW29P-4 or SB29RDC-4
$... Aluminum SB17NAC35-4 Fs=32Hz with Aluminum SB26ADC-4 or small diameter cloth SB26STCN-4
-----
A few month ago, reduced-breakup poly-plastic cone midranges were popular, helped by low cost crossovers.
$...Poly Plastic SB17MFC35-4 FS=30Hz
-----
A reduced diffraction cabinet improves sound quality, but also increases height.
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And that’s what usually holds me back from a project like these speakers - no bass. But I do remember being mighty impressed with the Totem Model 1 many years ago, back when I was shopping before DIY. I’ve never had a pair like them. My first speakers were AR 38’s with big woofers and then PMC FB1’s with strong bass and now an Audio Nirvana 15” in a big box. But from time to time I have a hankering for those smaller boxes for a small room set up. Working on a smaller enclosure has it’s own appeal. So I figured why not consider it, I can always donate the speakers to a family member. But if I make something, I want to use quality drivers and be able to do so without designing my own XO. It doesn’t take long before a commercial store bought speaker looks attractive given time and effort so may as well clone something good. The Totem looks like a dynaudio driver and they’re unobtainable for DIY which is a pitty given their reputation for smooth roll off.
LineSource, I’ll see if I can find that Satori thread.
SB Acoustics Satori Monitor
What makes the SVS so well regarded by the reviewers out there, that we might learn from ?
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Kalasan thread....You can build a standard vertical baffle and put screw height adjusters under the front to create slanted-baffle T-M time alignment at different distances.
Consider building the Kalasan with the $70 lower cost (almost identical SPL) SB29RDC-4 dome tweeter plus passive L-R-C components which can meet ~ $275/speaker budget. Two cabinets discussed: slanted baffle; pyramid. There is a crossover for the 4-ohm MW16P-4, and a crossover for the 8-ohm MW16P-8.
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World Famous Designer Jochim Gerhard developed the Kalasan.
==
measurements post# 699
crossover circuits post# 700
photos post# 801 762 746
SB Acoustics Satori Monitor
Just because the Fs is higher does not mean that it won't produce good bass. Bass to 45Hz is never bad. Bass to 50Hz is definitely acceptable. When it inches north of 65Hz is where it starts to feel like it's missing something.
How about this- The 830990 is a lower Qts of 0.39, and Fs of 46, which yields a sensitivity of 88dB! They sacrificed a bit of extension for more output. The lower Q yields more extension in a smaller vented box.
The 830991 has an Fs of 65Hz, a Qts of 0.49, and a sensitivity of 87dB. PMC uses this in their little TLs.
It seems the 830990 might be the better performer, but I think both are great drivers.
Later,
Wolf
How about this- The 830990 is a lower Qts of 0.39, and Fs of 46, which yields a sensitivity of 88dB! They sacrificed a bit of extension for more output. The lower Q yields more extension in a smaller vented box.
The 830991 has an Fs of 65Hz, a Qts of 0.49, and a sensitivity of 87dB. PMC uses this in their little TLs.
It seems the 830990 might be the better performer, but I think both are great drivers.
Later,
Wolf
SVS Ultra Bookshelf 2kHz crossover has 18 passive components. One film capacitor(tweeter?), 3 other electrolytic capacitors for cost and size control.
guess:
Tweeter: LR2(CL) + RLC impedance filter + LPAD(R+R)
Woofer: BW3(LCL + series R on C) + RLC impedance filter + RL baffle step?
guess:
Tweeter: LR2(CL) + RLC impedance filter + LPAD(R+R)
Woofer: BW3(LCL + series R on C) + RLC impedance filter + RL baffle step?
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My guess is they have a damped third order on the woofer (4), and the 2nd coil has a resistor (1) across it, followed by an LCR notch (4, 2 resistors for power handling or maybe a split LCR + CR kind of circuit with the same cap) centered in the 800-900Hz range for FR, not impedance. A lot of the woven cones tend to exhibit FR resonances in this area. It's likely the FR breakup is tamed by the damped 3rd order. If it's not a damped 3rd order, then it has a damped second order and an RL global BSC filter, but you would lose the benefits of the third order asymmetric setup.
The tweeter has to either be damped second order for phase alignment, or use a 3 resistor L-pad for shaping, or have it's own global RL BSC filter. Otherwise, I cannot figure out why so many resistors. There is definitely a resonance notch LCR. Without the second global BSC filter, I have no idea what the 3rd coil is for.
Later,
Wolf
The tweeter has to either be damped second order for phase alignment, or use a 3 resistor L-pad for shaping, or have it's own global RL BSC filter. Otherwise, I cannot figure out why so many resistors. There is definitely a resonance notch LCR. Without the second global BSC filter, I have no idea what the 3rd coil is for.
Later,
Wolf
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I’m liking the Kairos, simpler XO, more coherent. But these designs and their Satori drivers are long in the tooth. But I still want to know why the SVS is so highly rated, what did they do better than everyone else ? I dont have enough knowledge to understand what might be special about their XO that you fellas are saying!
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I saw a video of the SVS Ultra where the reviewer looked inside the speaker and the crossover is actually very simple just 5 parts. I would like to resurrect this thread and ask some of the highly knowledgeable people on the forum if anyone can help in replicating the performance of this speaker?
Also, is it possible to replace the tweeter with some other peerless/vifa tweeter that is silk/fabric based?
regards
Also, is it possible to replace the tweeter with some other peerless/vifa tweeter that is silk/fabric based?
regards
That is not for everybody the case. I need my bass into the low 30's at least to not miss something. It's also because i listen to a lot of bass heavy music like reggae, dub and (oldskool) hiphop.
But for most who listen to classic rock or pop, 45Hz is often enough. A bookshelf does seldom go that low, mostly they are in the 50 to 70Hz region and need a sub for that. But many do it without and are happy with it...
There are tons of designs for 2 way bookshelfs with a tweeter and a 6 to 8" midbass driver, and i'm sure many are way better than this one. I never heared it but when i research it it looks cheap build and not very good.
I have heard the SVS Prime that is very similar, and I find it to be acceptable. The boxes are piano-gloss black, and use good materials. Bracing? not sure.
A lot of music in those three genres are just heavy or high output bass, not necessarily low extending. I know it depends on the piece and who is the composer, but I have some of the dubstep, techno, industrial, trance, etc stuff; and this is my finding in a general case.
A lot of my bookshelf designs shoot for 40-45Hz in a 6.5-7" woofer size. If you are referencing commercial setups, then I highly agree as they reduce the size for more volume in sales.
My reference bookshelf 3-ways have an F3 of 26Hz with an 8" woofer. The Zingers design hits lower than 40Hz and is also a bookshelf.
I stand by what I said- 45 is decent, and 50 is acceptable in most cases. This will usually still yield decent bass replication from a studio mix.
Another angle is when you listen to exaggerated/enhanced bass music, the tonal balance is different when applied to a speaker. If the speaker had an F3 of 65, then you would likely miss all of it. If it was 50Hz, then the 45 Hz range would still come through fairly strong. Being that 40Hz is likely where most techno bass or electronica resides, a 45Hz F3 is likely the minimum for these genres.
Later,
Wolf
A lot of music in those three genres are just heavy or high output bass, not necessarily low extending. I know it depends on the piece and who is the composer, but I have some of the dubstep, techno, industrial, trance, etc stuff; and this is my finding in a general case.
A lot of my bookshelf designs shoot for 40-45Hz in a 6.5-7" woofer size. If you are referencing commercial setups, then I highly agree as they reduce the size for more volume in sales.
My reference bookshelf 3-ways have an F3 of 26Hz with an 8" woofer. The Zingers design hits lower than 40Hz and is also a bookshelf.
I stand by what I said- 45 is decent, and 50 is acceptable in most cases. This will usually still yield decent bass replication from a studio mix.
Another angle is when you listen to exaggerated/enhanced bass music, the tonal balance is different when applied to a speaker. If the speaker had an F3 of 65, then you would likely miss all of it. If it was 50Hz, then the 45 Hz range would still come through fairly strong. Being that 40Hz is likely where most techno bass or electronica resides, a 45Hz F3 is likely the minimum for these genres.
Later,
Wolf
im also looking into recreating these speakers. More so the ultra center with the 4" midrange and just building a slightly taller box for 2 bookshelf speakers with the 4" mid, 6.5" and a better tweeter. Also looking into building a center with two of the 6.5's. I don't care too much if they go super low as I have subs for 20hz and up which no small speaker or tower will do for movies. I don't see the appeal too much in a speaker playing to 40hz besides music but for movies a speaker going to 40 isn't low enough for movies. A speaker that goes flat to 30 still isn't low enough for movies imo. My main reason for speakers is home theatre. Id be happy with 60-70hz on a bookshelf speaker to be honest.
I also don't like the tweeter they used. It doesn't seem like it measures too well and I don't want an aluminum tweeter. Im looking into a ribbon tweeter with the 6.5" and 4" peerless drivers.
I also don't like the tweeter they used. It doesn't seem like it measures too well and I don't want an aluminum tweeter. Im looking into a ribbon tweeter with the 6.5" and 4" peerless drivers.
I don't think that is the crossover for the Ultra Bookshelf. You can see it here @6:20. It is actually a very simple crossover.
This looks like it has been improved, by Dennis Murphy (anyone see Dennis's New improved crossover?)
see post #411 crossover (?) - simple to clone.
SVS Ultra Bookshelf Speaker Review | Page 21 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Peerless by Tymphany 830990 6-1/2" GFC Cone HDS Woofer
Peerless DA25BG08-06 1" Aluminum Dome Tweeter 6 Ohm
post #5
Getting back into the hobby. Peerless 830990 & Dayton RS28 2 way -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
"How much power and how low do you want the extension? In 14.3 L (.51 cubes) with a 2"x6" port you get an f3/6/10 of 50/42/36. In 17.75L (.63 cubes) with the same port you get an 43/6/10 of 43/37/32. I assumed 50w input and .5 ohm of series resistance and the posted specs. Cabinet dimensions of 8.5"x16.5"h and 10"d (.51) or 12"d (.63).
I would locate the tweet centered on the baffle and about 3" from the top, on its center. Woofer 1/2"below with the flats on the side. 1/2 to 3/4" roundover."
The SVS has a 1" front baffle,
Cabinet Dimensions: 15” (H) x 8.5” (W) x 10.6” (D) about .46 cu feet or 13 litres (1" baffle)
Whats INSIDE? SVS Ultra + Measurements! - YouTube
Are the Peerless 830990 specs close enough to the Eclipse w6520r ?
(8 ohm vs 4 ohm) If Yes here's a MLTL Cabinet.
Peerless 830990
Peerless by Tymphany 830990 6-1/2" GFC Cone HDS Woofer
Eclipse W6520R-4
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/eclipse-w6520r-4/
http://meniscus.lightningbasehosted.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Docero-MLTL-Box.pdf
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/docero-full-kit-pair/
see post #411 crossover (?) - simple to clone.
SVS Ultra Bookshelf Speaker Review | Page 21 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Peerless by Tymphany 830990 6-1/2" GFC Cone HDS Woofer
Peerless DA25BG08-06 1" Aluminum Dome Tweeter 6 Ohm
post #5
Getting back into the hobby. Peerless 830990 & Dayton RS28 2 way -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
"How much power and how low do you want the extension? In 14.3 L (.51 cubes) with a 2"x6" port you get an f3/6/10 of 50/42/36. In 17.75L (.63 cubes) with the same port you get an 43/6/10 of 43/37/32. I assumed 50w input and .5 ohm of series resistance and the posted specs. Cabinet dimensions of 8.5"x16.5"h and 10"d (.51) or 12"d (.63).
I would locate the tweet centered on the baffle and about 3" from the top, on its center. Woofer 1/2"below with the flats on the side. 1/2 to 3/4" roundover."
The SVS has a 1" front baffle,
Cabinet Dimensions: 15” (H) x 8.5” (W) x 10.6” (D) about .46 cu feet or 13 litres (1" baffle)
Whats INSIDE? SVS Ultra + Measurements! - YouTube
Are the Peerless 830990 specs close enough to the Eclipse w6520r ?
(8 ohm vs 4 ohm) If Yes here's a MLTL Cabinet.
Peerless 830990
Peerless by Tymphany 830990 6-1/2" GFC Cone HDS Woofer
Eclipse W6520R-4
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/eclipse-w6520r-4/
http://meniscus.lightningbasehosted.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Docero-MLTL-Box.pdf
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/docero-full-kit-pair/
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Here's a diy speaker -Glenmore from PE, using the SVS (per Dennis Murphy) tweeter.
The Glenmore crossover has a L-pad on the tweeter to attenuate the tweeter.
You could use this on the SVS crossover.
GlenMore-Peerless 2 way 831735 woofer and new Tymphany DA25BG08-06 tweeter -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/filedata/fetch?id=1192356&d=1434132280
SVS Ultra Bookshelf Speaker Review | Page 21 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
The graph posted shows the SVS Ultra (orig) with no l-pad.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/svs-stock-on-axis-png.82200/
The Glenmore crossover has a L-pad on the tweeter to attenuate the tweeter.
You could use this on the SVS crossover.
GlenMore-Peerless 2 way 831735 woofer and new Tymphany DA25BG08-06 tweeter -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/filedata/fetch?id=1192356&d=1434132280
SVS Ultra Bookshelf Speaker Review | Page 21 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
The graph posted shows the SVS Ultra (orig) with no l-pad.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/svs-stock-on-axis-png.82200/
