Tangent AMP-30 amp : which chip ?

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coresta

coresta

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Joined 2005
#1
Hi ,
A friend of mine just purchased this black box for cheap .... Amazing sound for his desk ! Since, I've tried the TDA2030 and have been astonished by performance of these 2,25 euros chips ... So What's inside the AMP30 ?!
Not a T-amp , an LM ? a TDA ? cheers !
Pierre
 
#3
Bonjour Leglandu 🙂)
Sidérant ce bidule , tout comme les TDA2030 ...une photo de dessus semble faire état d'un TDA , dans le Tangent, mais comme l'appareil de mon ami est sous garantie, je me vois mal lui demander d'y zyeuter un coup dedans ...
Tu l'as écouté aussi ?
 
#4
Unless it was a TDA2030A @ 22v ,
Anyway , that's beyond the typical (minimum) specs of TDA2030A
Oddly there's a 5v USB Input which i have no clue what for .
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/stmicroelectronics/1459.pdf
But truth to be told , the TDA2030A sounds good , if you use average components , those kits come with terrible components .
Seems like a different kind of transistor in the package , the harmonic distortion climbs up sharply @ 10 - 30W ( from 0.03% to 1% @ 32V @ 4 ohms )
The higher distortions come from third order which can't really be heard .
Distortion : 0.08% @ 14W @ 4ohms ( i wonder if that's the specs of the tangy )
 
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#6
Hi, I already modded one of these months ago. It is a linear amp and it has 2 x 4700 uF 25V power caps of so-so quality just like all the other electrolytic caps. The chips used are 2 x TDA2052 and 3 x chinese NE5532. Very heavy toroid and below average PCB quality. The holes are metallized but they immediately come off when you use a desoldering tool so you might need to rework the PCB when modding. It is a fragile amp. The designers had a hard time to squeeze such a big toroid in such a small casing. The casing is mostly made of aluminium AFAIK.

I changed the power caps to Pana FC 3300/25 (4700/25 is too large) and all the other electrolytics to the same values in Pana FC. The opamps were changed to LME49860.

Now it is a very good sounding and fast amp that astonished some of my audio friends. I am ready with it and it will go to one of those audio friends. It is still at home so if you have any questions please ask them.

Beware, the design is OK but the built quality is very cheap (except for the transformer) and PCB tracks peel off while you are looking at them. So risky business to work on them but rewarding when you succeed. In standard form they're OK but not spectacular mainly because of the opamps as they're some chinese NE5532 clone type.

After removing the top cover and PCB I drilled a large hole near the rectifier as there is a hot spot over there because lack of airflow. Oh and please be careful with the speaker cables as they are glued to the PCB but tend to break after you swing the PCB upside down a few times.
 
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#7
jean-paul said:
Hi, I already modded one of these months ago. It is a linear amp and it has 2 x 4700 uF 25V power caps of so-so quality just like all the other electrolytic caps. The chips used are 2 x TDA2052 and 3 x chinese NE5532. Very heavy toroid and below average PCB quality. The holes are metallized but they immediately come off when you use a desoldering tool so you might need to rework the PCB when modding. It is a fragile amp. The designers had a hard time to squeeze such a big toroid in such a small casing. The casing is mostly made of aluminium AFAIK.

I changed the power caps to Pana FC 3300/25 (4700/25 is too large) and all the other electrolytics to the same values in Pana FC. The opamps were changed to LME49860.

Now it is a very good sounding and fast amp that astonished some of my audio friends. I am ready with it and it will go to one of those audio friends. It is still at home so if you have any questions please ask them.

Beware, the design is OK but the built quality is very cheap (except for the transformer) and PCB tracks peel off while you are looking at them. So risky business to work on them but rewarding when you succeed. In standard form they're OK but not spectacular mainly because of the opamps as they're some chinese NE5532 clone type.

After removing the top cover and PCB I drilled a large hole near the rectifier as there is a hot spot over there because lack of airflow. Oh and please be careful with the speaker cables as they are glued to the PCB but tend to break after you swing the PCB upside down a few times.
Click to expand...

I see , their pcb quality is below kit quality .
Where did the power amp chip come from ?
The power amp chip looks inferior to the TDA2030 because of the distortion figures , it's pretty violent .
Just that the power output is higher .
 
#8
The ST made TDA2052 chips are fed by a heavy 2 x 15 V toroid and so performance is limited to 2 x 20 W. It sounds very good with the mods whatever the datasheets may say. Distortion figures are just very small in differences and AFAIK they're specified at the max. power the chip can deliver. Output current of TDA2052 is 6 A max. and TDA2030 is 3,5 A max. It would be unlogical if the distortion figures would not differ with these largely different currents.

TDA2030 is also from another era... TDA2052 is a modern very good sounding chip and it would be strange if it did not sound and measure better that TDA2030. I was very surprised when I heard the amp after the mods. In fact I still have the amp connected as I like it a lot. better than my other amps I have now. For just a moment I thought of designing a replacement PCB of better quality to fit in the Amp-30. No time for that unfortunately.

And this wisdom is not from paper but from spending several hours modding and listening to the actual amp and not from a web page 😉

The USB output is for connecting cell phone battery chargers and it is fed by a separate 12 V winding. The amp also features a subwoofer output.

Yes gentlemen, this is an amp for the Ipod/cell phone/MP3 generation. I only recommend it to people that are able to work fast/tidy and are able to repair damage that will be done. In standard form it is not that special.
 
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#9
jean-paul said:
The chips are fed by a 2 x 15 V toroid and so performance is limited to 2 x 20 W. It sounds very good with the mods whatever the datasheets may say. Distortion figures are just very small in differences. Output current of TDA2052 is 6 A max. and TDA2030 is 3,5 A max.

TDA2030 is also from another era...
Click to expand...

Woah dude , you make the 2052 sound like they were from the era's where 110db woofers were common .
Toroids make sense , their minimum size is , yes , larger then a EI's minimum size , but hey , at least they placed toroids .
so how many VA were the toroids stuffed in ?
 
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#10
Don't know where you are pointing at but I actually have the amp and I also never heard a TDA2030 sound up to the standard I like. TDA2030 was designed and made in my youth and the TDA2052 is pretty recent. It can deliver enough current to my speakers which is not a a problem as they've incorporated a heavy toroid that can deliver that current. More luck than wisdom I guess but it works out very good. I just wish I could stuff so much parts in such a small case.

All I know is that the Amp-30 in this form beats several other amps I have. It is a pity that they've been costcutting in a lot of areas. It is a cheap crate made a bit too cheap with some very nice aspects to generate profit by a large margin. I even mailed Tangent that this amp could be a winner when made with some better materials worth 15 to 20 Euro.
 
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#11
Many thanks jean-paul !

I find interesting the "Multiway Application Circuit" with PLLXO's (Figure 18 - page 10/14) in the TDA2052 Datasheet.pdf... certainly the Sub-out of the AMP-30 uses a part of this schématics.

Just a question : when you switched from NE5532's to LME49860's in your mod, had you to change some other parts or just it was totally compatible ?
 

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#13
jean-paul said:
Don't know where you are pointing at but I actually have the amp and I also never heard a TDA2030 sound up to the standard I like. TDA2030 was designed and made in my youth and the TDA2052 is pretty recent. It can deliver enough current to my speakers which is not a a problem as they've incorporated a heavy toroid that can deliver that current. More luck than wisdom I guess but it works out very good. I just wish I could stuff so much parts in such a small case.

All I know is that the Amp-30 in this form beats several other amps I have. It is a pity that they've been costcutting in a lot of areas. It is a cheap crate made a bit too cheap with some very nice aspects to generate profit by a large margin. I even mailed Tangent that this amp could be a winner when made with some better materials worth 15 to 20 Euro.
Click to expand...

Jean Paul : Try it on 500watts rated regulated PSU , wired on CuAg , without any printed circuit 😉
 
#16
Hi, I still have solid silver wire but I don't use it anymore despite that it should be better in some aspects. When you use silver you should use it in the entire chain. Copper and silver don't mix well sonically (thermocouple effect ?). So I went back to copper. Back to the subject please, as an ex-mod I would have encouraged us now to open another thread.
 
#17
jean-paul said:
Don't know where you are pointing at but I actually have the amp and I also never heard a TDA2030 sound up to the standard I like. TDA2030 was designed and made in my youth and the TDA2052 is pretty recent. It can deliver enough current to my speakers which is not a a problem as they've incorporated a heavy toroid that can deliver that current. More luck than wisdom I guess but it works out very good. I just wish I could stuff so much parts in such a small case.

All I know is that the Amp-30 in this form beats several other amps I have. It is a pity that they've been costcutting in a lot of areas. It is a cheap crate made a bit too cheap with some very nice aspects to generate profit by a large margin. I even mailed Tangent that this amp could be a winner when made with some better materials worth 15 to 20 Euro.
Click to expand...

That's cause i was confused , you said that TDA2052 came from another era and i thought it was in the past 😱
Still , you didn't tell me the toroid VA :Pawprint:
 
#18
TDA2030 is from another era = it is from the past. English is not my mother language but I think I expressed myself well.

The toroid does not mention VA rating but I guesstimate it to be at least 2 x 5 A. It only mentions 2 x 15 V and 1 x 12 V ( for the USB charging circuit).
 
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