I have a pair of 1200 MK3D's that I like quite a bit for DJ use. Too bad my evil audiophile side tells me there's more to be had out of these. So I did the research and found the Origin Live Rega arm adapters which allow the use of Rega arms on the 1200's. I like that idea and will probably move towards a pair of modded 250's shortly.
I've also seen the outboard power supply by KAB which looks like it would make a big difference in sound as well. Has anyone tried a DIY upgrade to the PSU on the 1200's? I'd love to be able to build my own rather than buy this one.
Service Manual can be downloaded here: 1200 Service Manual and here: 1200 LTD Manual
Both are multipart so download all parts before extracting.
Excellent scan of Circuit Diagrams here: Circuits
Links are working kinda strangely so here's the root search page that has the individual sites to pull the files.
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/index.php?what=search2
Having to buy 2 of everything for my setup is going to get pricey fast. I'm a total noob to diy, but would like to try something like this if its not too hard.
I've also seen the outboard power supply by KAB which looks like it would make a big difference in sound as well. Has anyone tried a DIY upgrade to the PSU on the 1200's? I'd love to be able to build my own rather than buy this one.
Service Manual can be downloaded here: 1200 Service Manual and here: 1200 LTD Manual
Both are multipart so download all parts before extracting.
Excellent scan of Circuit Diagrams here: Circuits
Links are working kinda strangely so here's the root search page that has the individual sites to pull the files.
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/index.php?what=search2
Having to buy 2 of everything for my setup is going to get pricey fast. I'm a total noob to diy, but would like to try something like this if its not too hard.
recca said:
Why do you need to outfit both decks? The new stuff will be inapproprite for DJ-ing anyway. How about upgrading one with all the mods and then you can do an A/B test and hear the difference (better or worse) from the stock 1200.
Max
Well if it's going to be inappropriate for DJing then I wouldn't do it anyway. 😉 But DJ's are people too and deserve the best sound quality out of their gear just like everyone else.
I doubt that the power supply mod would be detrimental to DJing. The tonearm mod might be. I read a review about the tonearm mod and it said that it tracked well with the Rega arm. The review did seem biased towards Origin Live, but it certainly piqued my interest and I believe that it will be an improvement.
I guess you're right that I should try it on one and see how it sounds, but I don't want to end up with a mismatched set of tables. Especially if they sound different.
Anyway, if anyone can offer input into the power supply mods that would be great.
Thanks!
I doubt that the power supply mod would be detrimental to DJing. The tonearm mod might be. I read a review about the tonearm mod and it said that it tracked well with the Rega arm. The review did seem biased towards Origin Live, but it certainly piqued my interest and I believe that it will be an improvement.
I guess you're right that I should try it on one and see how it sounds, but I don't want to end up with a mismatched set of tables. Especially if they sound different.
Anyway, if anyone can offer input into the power supply mods that would be great.
Thanks!
I am considering a psu mod for my 1210. Looking at the specs of the KAB PS-1200, it seems very similar to the DIY steps design by tangent.
http://tangentsoft.net/elec/teps/
Except for the sense circuit. The power switch would have to be re-wired, but not really a big deal.
What do you think?
http://tangentsoft.net/elec/teps/
Except for the sense circuit. The power switch would have to be re-wired, but not really a big deal.
What do you think?
Interresting post. I wonder: Is the Rega arm really much better than the Technics arm. What make it better? Is the bearing quality is higher? and why? Is the design better?, etc...
The reason I ask this is because it seems like people assume that "audiophile" stuff like rega sounds better than DJ stuff, but the technical reasons for that are a bit nebulous. Is the bearing really much better for example? I am just curious
F
The reason I ask this is because it seems like people assume that "audiophile" stuff like rega sounds better than DJ stuff, but the technical reasons for that are a bit nebulous. Is the bearing really much better for example? I am just curious
F
I dont feel qualified to state all the reasons why the stock technics arm is so bad. The bearings are said to be the main reason and the fact that it is built out of several pieces.
It is a 1970's design which became deprecated once the ubiquitous rega arm came on the scene in the 1980's.
The rest is economic the technics arm cost new about $60 USD. The basic rega arm the 250 cost $190 USD.
It is a 1970's design which became deprecated once the ubiquitous rega arm came on the scene in the 1980's.
The rest is economic the technics arm cost new about $60 USD. The basic rega arm the 250 cost $190 USD.
I bought the OL kit and stuck a stock Rega rb250 on my Technics 1200. It sounds way, way more detailed. I use a AT440ml cartridge. I can't imagine a turntable sounding better.
It's true that the Rega is way more expensive, but I guess the volume of production is smaller also... The parts may not be of better quality just because the price is higher.
The Rega is made from one single casting, so it should be more rigid, but does rigidity matter that much when the arm has to lift a 6 gram weight? I don't imagine any tonearm flexing from the load!
Anyway, I think it may still be a good idea to be able to change tonearms on a SL1200. I would love to compare the two.
F
The Rega is made from one single casting, so it should be more rigid, but does rigidity matter that much when the arm has to lift a 6 gram weight? I don't imagine any tonearm flexing from the load!
Anyway, I think it may still be a good idea to be able to change tonearms on a SL1200. I would love to compare the two.
F
It's not a question of simply supporting a 6 gram (or whatever) cartridge. Rigidity is enormously important in turntables and tonearms- any relative movement loses information and colours the sound. The smallest groove modulations are the same order of magnitude as the wavelegth of red light (apparently), and the cartridge is basically a vibration sensor. In practice infinite, or even sufficiant, rigidity isn't possible, but it's easy enough to hear the difference between a standard detachable headshell arm like the one on the Technics compared to a Rega (or similar arm) that is designed to maximise rigidity.
I can agree on many things you say. Technics headshell mount is not very rigid, and I guess there can be improvement with a one-piece tonearm. (but cartridge switching is a pain!).
Red light has 700 nm wavelength. That's 0.0007mm. Seems quite small. I doubt that vinyl cutting and pressing has that kind of precision. Maybe, maybe not. Whatever.
But don't forget that the tonearm can be infinitely rigid, but the cart can still move because of the bearings. If you have perfect bearings, the only thing that keeps the cart in place is its own weight, and the weight of the tonearm and headshell. I don't really know what's my point.
I can imagine using a very heavy cartridge and flimsy-flexy tonearm. Could this work?
Red light has 700 nm wavelength. That's 0.0007mm. Seems quite small. I doubt that vinyl cutting and pressing has that kind of precision. Maybe, maybe not. Whatever.
But don't forget that the tonearm can be infinitely rigid, but the cart can still move because of the bearings. If you have perfect bearings, the only thing that keeps the cart in place is its own weight, and the weight of the tonearm and headshell. I don't really know what's my point.
I can imagine using a very heavy cartridge and flimsy-flexy tonearm. Could this work?
The point is, the arm structure and the bearings can't be totally rigid, a real arm can only approach the ideal to a greater or lesser degree. Depends what you mean by holding the cartridge in place. What keeps it in the groove is the tracking force applied to the arm, or if you prefer, the gram or two of mass 'seen' at the stylus after the rest has been balanced by the counterweight. The actual arm and cartridge mass, or at least the effective mass, is all about inertia and the resonant frequency of the 'spring' that is the cartridge's suspension compliance. Basic mechanical matching of cartridges and tonearms considers the low frequency resonance of the combination. Too low (say 2-5Hz) and it will be excited by record warps and eccentricities or the resonant frequency of the turntable's suspension system. Too high (around 20Hz) and it will be excited by audio on the record. Old (late 70s/ early 80s) 'Turntables' editions of Hifi Choice magazine had an excellent technical introduction to this subject, but I don't know if it's on the web anywhere. They recommended about 9-15Hz or so as the best compromise region for the lf arm/ cartridge resonance. A really flexible arm would have it's own very strong resonance, with exact consequences depending on what frequency or range of frequencies this occured over. The Hifi Choice introduction suggests that the smallest modulations on a record may be as small as a millionth of an inch- perhaps something like a quiet violin harmonic.
I have an arm with separate headshell on my Thorens too, and since a while, I have a cartridge from Stanton, the "681 Triple E" hanging in it.
Can anyone say if this is a good combination, and if this cartridge has some qualities at all? I got it from a good friend of mine - free!
I mainly use this deck to record my records to tape (open reel or cassette) or CD, so the quality should be quite high. I don't use it for DJ-ing 🙂
regards,
Timmo Meyer.
Can anyone say if this is a good combination, and if this cartridge has some qualities at all? I got it from a good friend of mine - free!
I mainly use this deck to record my records to tape (open reel or cassette) or CD, so the quality should be quite high. I don't use it for DJ-ing 🙂
regards,
Timmo Meyer.
I came across this thread just a couple of days after installing a DIY power supply into my Technics SL1210. So here, in a nutshell, is how I did it:
First I downloaded the circuit diagrams from the Technics forum at Vinyl Engine. The rectified input from the mains transformer supplies 35V DC, which is then dropped to 21V by the regulator circuit on the main board. I decided to make a regulated 21V DC supply and bypass the internal regulator completely.
I discovered it was possible, by cutting a wire link, to attach the new supply without having to remove the circuit board. (Referring to the page showing the Drive Control PCB, I cut the vertical link near the top of the board, just left of the word "Technics", and connected the 21V DC to the lower part of that wire. The earthing point is at the bottom corner of the board. The page from the manual shows the underside of the board, but of course when you remove the platter and the plastic cover you will be looking down at board from above.
Connecting the new supply in this way disables the strobe and the cueing light. I've never had much use for either of them, so that was fine by me. My way of connecting also in effect eliminated a supply bypass cap, so I attached another one.
If you want to do this, it may help to know that I measured the current drawn from the 21V supply to be 170mA during steady rotation. There are brief peaks of 400mA (450mA at 45rpm) on starting and stopping.
I used an 18V AC (two 9V windings in series), 75VA mains transformer and a L200 regulator on a small heat sink. A 1.5 amp LM317 reg should be OK too.
The more I listen, the more I am impressed at the improvement. Deeper soundstage, quieter background, cleaner transients, better bass. The outlay and the work involved is pretty minimal so if you have the deck, can read a schematic and make a power supply I would highly recommend going for it!
John
First I downloaded the circuit diagrams from the Technics forum at Vinyl Engine. The rectified input from the mains transformer supplies 35V DC, which is then dropped to 21V by the regulator circuit on the main board. I decided to make a regulated 21V DC supply and bypass the internal regulator completely.
I discovered it was possible, by cutting a wire link, to attach the new supply without having to remove the circuit board. (Referring to the page showing the Drive Control PCB, I cut the vertical link near the top of the board, just left of the word "Technics", and connected the 21V DC to the lower part of that wire. The earthing point is at the bottom corner of the board. The page from the manual shows the underside of the board, but of course when you remove the platter and the plastic cover you will be looking down at board from above.
Connecting the new supply in this way disables the strobe and the cueing light. I've never had much use for either of them, so that was fine by me. My way of connecting also in effect eliminated a supply bypass cap, so I attached another one.
If you want to do this, it may help to know that I measured the current drawn from the 21V supply to be 170mA during steady rotation. There are brief peaks of 400mA (450mA at 45rpm) on starting and stopping.
I used an 18V AC (two 9V windings in series), 75VA mains transformer and a L200 regulator on a small heat sink. A 1.5 amp LM317 reg should be OK too.
The more I listen, the more I am impressed at the improvement. Deeper soundstage, quieter background, cleaner transients, better bass. The outlay and the work involved is pretty minimal so if you have the deck, can read a schematic and make a power supply I would highly recommend going for it!
John
Great! What kind of regulator did you use? Could you post a schematic of your regulator?
thanks! 🙂
thanks! 🙂
I used this: http://eu.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/1318.pdf
However, as I said above, an LM317 would be OK too.
John
However, as I said above, an LM317 would be OK too.
John
Very interesting thread!
I'm also on the upgrade path with my Technics M5G 1200 and was thinking about DIYing a power supply... To be honest I've already built the supply and I was just wondering if it would be possible to wire the new supply and retain all the turntable functions ie the lights etc. I haven't looked at the schematics yet but I thought I'd ask any way.
If anyone knows what to connect where and if it can be done I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thanks!
I'm also on the upgrade path with my Technics M5G 1200 and was thinking about DIYing a power supply... To be honest I've already built the supply and I was just wondering if it would be possible to wire the new supply and retain all the turntable functions ie the lights etc. I haven't looked at the schematics yet but I thought I'd ask any way.
If anyone knows what to connect where and if it can be done I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thanks!
Has anyone actually bothered measuring to see if all these power supply mods actually effect the speed stability?
You will see from the schematics that the regulator transistor is mounted off-board. If you remove it and connect your new 21V supply to point J3, all the functions except the on-off switch will be retained.
I Just discovered that a Hi Fi Company in my home town, supply many mod parts for the Technics SL1200 / 1210.
They have designed their own PSU, with regulator (the on board regulator is bi-passed)
Prices look expensive to me, but there is lots of good info on their website.
Technics SL1200 SL1210 -* SL-1210 SL1200* SP-25 SP25 SP-15 modifications
They can also supply armboards, feet, mats, & bearing upgrades🙂
They have designed their own PSU, with regulator (the on board regulator is bi-passed)
Prices look expensive to me, but there is lots of good info on their website.
Technics SL1200 SL1210 -* SL-1210 SL1200* SP-25 SP25 SP-15 modifications
They can also supply armboards, feet, mats, & bearing upgrades🙂
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