Ok, full story. I bought some JBL-MR825 for dirt cheap ($50). Brought them home, put wheels on them and changed horn drivers. One horn wasn't working so I replaced them both with PYLE PDS442'S. I bought those purely on reviews and price from Parts express. I've never owned this type of speaker.
I modified the crossovers pro connections to RCA.
Plugged them in and I'm blown away. I've got some hearing issues and this completely woke my brain up. Everything I felt was missing with my QLS-1'S came alive. Open, airy, alive is the music for me again. These ugly, dragged thru the mud beat up looking JBL speakers have become my absolute favorites.
The cool part is my wife, bil, and friends agree, they be ugly but they sound great. For music & movies, bass for us is just right.
The only thing I'm noticing is there is some harshness on the top end as the volume knob goes up. These are the single horn with 15 inch Woofer. I have choice of amps. Crown XLS 1502 Drivecore and Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2. Both amps are more than enough to drive these. I love the fact it doesn't take a gazillion watts to drive these.
I was going to ask about how to modify the crossovers etc. after reading some other threads I'm not going to.
I've been contemplating trying mini dsp for awhile now, so is this a case where that would be ideal to try ? Or is there a better choice ?
I modified the crossovers pro connections to RCA.
Plugged them in and I'm blown away. I've got some hearing issues and this completely woke my brain up. Everything I felt was missing with my QLS-1'S came alive. Open, airy, alive is the music for me again. These ugly, dragged thru the mud beat up looking JBL speakers have become my absolute favorites.
The cool part is my wife, bil, and friends agree, they be ugly but they sound great. For music & movies, bass for us is just right.
The only thing I'm noticing is there is some harshness on the top end as the volume knob goes up. These are the single horn with 15 inch Woofer. I have choice of amps. Crown XLS 1502 Drivecore and Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2. Both amps are more than enough to drive these. I love the fact it doesn't take a gazillion watts to drive these.
I was going to ask about how to modify the crossovers etc. after reading some other threads I'm not going to.
I've been contemplating trying mini dsp for awhile now, so is this a case where that would be ideal to try ? Or is there a better choice ?
One wonders what they would sound like with good JBL drivers in them instead of Pyle. No offense, but I associate Pyle with home car stereo and cheap DJ stuff.
Data sheet, in case:
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/mr800 series/mr825.pdf
Data sheet, in case:
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/mr800 series/mr825.pdf
Enzo,
No offense taken. I screwed up big time. I didn't know you could just replace the diaphragm on the back of the original driver. The horn was on so tight I broke the magnet getting it off 🙁. Much to my surprise that was $350 mistake.
So the Pyle drivers are what I have to work with for now. They do get solid reviews. And yes I printed that data out. How I figured out I just ruined that driver.
No offense taken. I screwed up big time. I didn't know you could just replace the diaphragm on the back of the original driver. The horn was on so tight I broke the magnet getting it off 🙁. Much to my surprise that was $350 mistake.
So the Pyle drivers are what I have to work with for now. They do get solid reviews. And yes I printed that data out. How I figured out I just ruined that driver.
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Maybe.. maybe not. Some of these JBL 1" drivers are pretty mediocre.. some are downright awful sounding. The spec sheet states that the stock crossover for this box is at 1.5khz which is probably too low for best sound quality from any 1" driver, the good news is that crossover doesn't consist of much so modifying it won't be hard or expensive, I'd suggest upping that to 2khz or even 2.5khz. The proper way to do that is with some test and measurement gear to get best alignment between the drivers, and that will also show you any glaring response anomolies that need taming too. For my ear any rise in the response around 4khz sounds overly bright and a peak at that frequency can be painfully harsh so that is something to look for, but it could simply be that the output from the Pyle CD is too high overall, an L-pad inserted between the crossover and driver would tame that.
Try a Zobel network across the tweeter - 8 ohms in series with 1uF directly across the tweeter terminals.
This will help to tame nasty HF.
Dan.
This will help to tame nasty HF.
Dan.
The job of a Zobel filter is to flatten the impedance above a certain frequency, usually to counteract the inductive impedance rise of a voicecoil.
If your amplifier has some output impedance, this will drop the treble a little.
For an amp with very low output impedance, there ought to be exactly zero difference.
Chris
If your amplifier has some output impedance, this will drop the treble a little.
For an amp with very low output impedance, there ought to be exactly zero difference.
Chris
True.
True.
Theoretically.
In practice there are parasitic impedances causing ringing and consequent HF harshness.
The Zobel network guarantees damping of any such ringing including quenching RF pickup and consequent artifacts.
For the price it is well worth the experiment and can do no harm.
Dan.
I installed 4 of them in a church in the 90s, only to discover how harsh they were. All brand new, with original JBL drivers.
Regards
Mike
Regards
Mike
I agree that you could try the Zobel network. It indeed can't hurt to try. Radioshack is your friend in this.
Pity you're gonna be stuck with them huge QLS-1's now... I'd be interested in them if you plan on throwing them out.
I used to haul MR-825s back in the day (20+ years ago). They were loud and sounded good enough for DJ gigs but not great. They were competitive in their price point. These days there are plenty of powered speakers that get louder, sound better and weigh half as much. Nevertheless, I still see the 825s out and about to this day.
Pyle is not a manufacturer, per se. They relabel Chinese products and sell them. They cover an incredibly wide gamut of consumer and prosumer electronic products. They try to be the price leader in their markets. As far as I know they have no design engineering staff. You are pretty much at the mercy of their suppliers for engineering and QA.
I am not surprised that you find their sound good at low volumes and harsh at high volumes. This is par for any driver. Better drivers will operate closer to their thermal power rating without harshness. Unlike amps, that are power rated according to a published distortion spec, drivers are power rated to only a thermal spec. Distortion (harshness) is not considered when determining the thermal limits of a driver.
Pyle is not a manufacturer, per se. They relabel Chinese products and sell them. They cover an incredibly wide gamut of consumer and prosumer electronic products. They try to be the price leader in their markets. As far as I know they have no design engineering staff. You are pretty much at the mercy of their suppliers for engineering and QA.
I am not surprised that you find their sound good at low volumes and harsh at high volumes. This is par for any driver. Better drivers will operate closer to their thermal power rating without harshness. Unlike amps, that are power rated according to a published distortion spec, drivers are power rated to only a thermal spec. Distortion (harshness) is not considered when determining the thermal limits of a driver.
Sorry dan, they've already sold.
I like conaski's idea. I do have some leftover 2 way 2.5 PE crossovers. I hadn't thought about trying them in the pro speaker. I think I'll give that a try this weekend. Honestly I tried the Pyle & JBL (one in each cabinet) and my ears couldn't really pick out much of a difference. They both sound pretty good to me.
If I remember right there's not much to the original crossovers, 4-5 parts.
Thank you for the Zobel recommendation. I'm not familiar with it, I'll have to research that one.
I like conaski's idea. I do have some leftover 2 way 2.5 PE crossovers. I hadn't thought about trying them in the pro speaker. I think I'll give that a try this weekend. Honestly I tried the Pyle & JBL (one in each cabinet) and my ears couldn't really pick out much of a difference. They both sound pretty good to me.
If I remember right there's not much to the original crossovers, 4-5 parts.
Thank you for the Zobel recommendation. I'm not familiar with it, I'll have to research that one.
JMFahey..........LOL. I am so lame 🙂. Totally forgot about that switch. Made all the difference !
Ahhhhhhh. Thanks for the help. I'm laughing at myself.
Ahhhhhhh. Thanks for the help. I'm laughing at myself.
The original JBL 2416 are probably not much better than drivers you put in. If you want to stick with JBL parts the 2426 would be a drop in replacement and are plentiful on Ebay. The snout unscrews to make it a screw on driver. Just be sure to get ones with genuine diaphragms
Remember if you replace with a non JBL driver that the polarity needs to be reversed.
Remember if you replace with a non JBL driver that the polarity needs to be reversed.
"The original JBL 2416 are probably not much better than drivers you put in."
Good laugh.
" If you want to stick with JBL parts the 2426 would be a drop in replacement and are plentiful on Ebay."
The magnet, phase-plug, and diaphragm are identical on the later 2416 and the 2426.
Just buy a replacement diaphragm (if you don't have a cracked magnet).
Wire an #1156 automotive lamp in series with one lead of the driver and it will virtually eliminate failures.
The snout unscrews to make it a screw on driver. Just be sure to get ones with genuine diaphragms
Good laugh.
" If you want to stick with JBL parts the 2426 would be a drop in replacement and are plentiful on Ebay."
The magnet, phase-plug, and diaphragm are identical on the later 2416 and the 2426.
Just buy a replacement diaphragm (if you don't have a cracked magnet).
Wire an #1156 automotive lamp in series with one lead of the driver and it will virtually eliminate failures.
The snout unscrews to make it a screw on driver. Just be sure to get ones with genuine diaphragms
The 2426 has a considerably larger top plate, both thicker and larger diameter. It is also machined to a greater tolerance allowing a narrower gap. The narrower gap requires additional clearance machined into it for the voice coil leads.
The 2425 (2426) diaphragm has a longer coil length than the 2416.
Obviously the rear chamber on the 2416 is very small compared to the 2426.
From experience the 2426 drivers and diaphragms were built to a tighter tolerance particularly in regards to diaphragm height over the phase plug which can have a drastic effect on frequency response.
Also from experience the 2416 seems to fail more from the voice coil former bubbling and rubbing on the pole piece. The 2426 diaphragm is more reliable and most often fails at the coil solder joints.
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