Hey guys, so a good friend of mine has a pair of Nexo RS15s installed in his venue. He powers them with the the recomended NXamp.
http://nexo-sa.com/attachments/products/48/nexo_rs15_datasheet.pdf
Originally he planned on installing 4, buttt budget ran short. 2 years later he'd like to commission me to build a pair of subs to accompany them, and ideally I'd like to get as close as possible to nexo offering as possible, in terms of response, size, power handling, and more importantly, phase response, so we'll be sticking with a 2x15 ported box. (a wave to people who recognize me from prosoundforums now, they are not too keen on the diy)
Now, I stumbled upon this pdf
http://nexo-sa.com/attachments/products/28/rs15-spare-parts.pdf
Based on the drawing, I've narrowed the driver down to 2 possible offerings from B&C, the B&C 15NW76 and the B&C 15NDL76, due to the shape of the frame and magnet assembly. I tend to think its the 15NW76 givin the greater powerhandling and xmax, it seems to be a better match to the specs of the RS15 datasheet. If anyone has any info to share, I could surely use it (esp if I'm "totally off" in my assumptions)
I initially thought it would be one of the nicer BC drivers like the 15sw115 based upon recomendations over from Prosoundweb etc ("its NEXO, must be buku dollar drivers"), but am glad to find that its a little more in reach $ wise.
I've found the BC 15NDL76 for 239 a piece
B&C 15 NDL76 is a lightweight 15" woofer for 2 or 3-way speaker systems. B&C 15 NDL76 Speakers - B&C 15" 15 NDL76 woofers for speaker systems. B&C 15 NDL76 speakers available now.
the B&C 15NW76 for 307
B&C 15NW76 15" Driver
and the "ceramic equivalent" the 15fw76 for 238
B&C 15FW76 Low Frequency Driver
I'm going to start modelling all 3 of these in winisd shortly... however I was wondering if anyone was familiar with any better retail locations for these drivers, given I'll need four of em. I've designed a couple different ported boxes, but not held myself to such strict constraints before. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated, but regardless... I'll likely be documenting my results here.
http://nexo-sa.com/attachments/products/48/nexo_rs15_datasheet.pdf
Originally he planned on installing 4, buttt budget ran short. 2 years later he'd like to commission me to build a pair of subs to accompany them, and ideally I'd like to get as close as possible to nexo offering as possible, in terms of response, size, power handling, and more importantly, phase response, so we'll be sticking with a 2x15 ported box. (a wave to people who recognize me from prosoundforums now, they are not too keen on the diy)
Now, I stumbled upon this pdf
http://nexo-sa.com/attachments/products/28/rs15-spare-parts.pdf
Based on the drawing, I've narrowed the driver down to 2 possible offerings from B&C, the B&C 15NW76 and the B&C 15NDL76, due to the shape of the frame and magnet assembly. I tend to think its the 15NW76 givin the greater powerhandling and xmax, it seems to be a better match to the specs of the RS15 datasheet. If anyone has any info to share, I could surely use it (esp if I'm "totally off" in my assumptions)
I initially thought it would be one of the nicer BC drivers like the 15sw115 based upon recomendations over from Prosoundweb etc ("its NEXO, must be buku dollar drivers"), but am glad to find that its a little more in reach $ wise.
I've found the BC 15NDL76 for 239 a piece
B&C 15 NDL76 is a lightweight 15" woofer for 2 or 3-way speaker systems. B&C 15 NDL76 Speakers - B&C 15" 15 NDL76 woofers for speaker systems. B&C 15 NDL76 speakers available now.
the B&C 15NW76 for 307
B&C 15NW76 15" Driver
and the "ceramic equivalent" the 15fw76 for 238
B&C 15FW76 Low Frequency Driver
I'm going to start modelling all 3 of these in winisd shortly... however I was wondering if anyone was familiar with any better retail locations for these drivers, given I'll need four of em. I've designed a couple different ported boxes, but not held myself to such strict constraints before. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated, but regardless... I'll likely be documenting my results here.
Pro Sound Service AV Sales Service Install 877-776-7631 is the better retail location.
Regardless of the speaker you choose, if the cabinet and ports are made the same as the cabinets you copy, the phase response will also be very close to the same, the copies will "play well" with the originals assuming the parameters are reasonably close (even your 3015LF, Sean ;^) ).
That said, Nexo is large enough they may be using a custom variant of the B&C drivers you are considering.
Art
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haha, you caught me Art!
Yeah I was pretty bummed those 3015lfs got shot down so quickly... as they are in a pretty similar price bracket as what SEEMS to be in the nexos, and those drivers are actually in my around 300 dollar a piece range. the RS18 definitely seems like the better box, based on the (charts) and the supposed per driver price associated (18sw115 vs lower power handling 15 instead of the sw115 series).
Only place that I can find that carries a bonafide "replacement part" from nexo, runs them for 350 GBP, or 420 GBP after VAT.... .
Any ideas how I would model the port on the nexo (I'm trying NOT to pull the drivers out of the nexo boxes... that spoils the challenge)? I've just been going with both ends flanged, since the actual shape of the port is this curved thingy lol.
Yeah I was pretty bummed those 3015lfs got shot down so quickly... as they are in a pretty similar price bracket as what SEEMS to be in the nexos, and those drivers are actually in my around 300 dollar a piece range. the RS18 definitely seems like the better box, based on the (charts) and the supposed per driver price associated (18sw115 vs lower power handling 15 instead of the sw115 series).
Only place that I can find that carries a bonafide "replacement part" from nexo, runs them for 350 GBP, or 420 GBP after VAT.... .
Any ideas how I would model the port on the nexo (I'm trying NOT to pull the drivers out of the nexo boxes... that spoils the challenge)? I've just been going with both ends flanged, since the actual shape of the port is this curved thingy lol.
Sean,
For simulation purposes, the port taper won't make much difference.
The slotted port using a sidewall will make a difference from the usual round port located away from cabinet sidewall "normal" simulation.
You can look at the published impedance curve of the cabinet to get an idea of it's Fb.
Since you just plan to copy the cabinet, why bother with a model?
Art
I'd rather arrive at the results via modelling, vs pulling the drivers, taking a look inside and going from there. what can I say, I have too much time on my hands. Its also a good learning experience/exercise, and will let me brush up on ported box design.
for all intensive purposes, I'll only be copying the outer dimensions, and trying to arrive at all other data myself (I dont plan on measuring the ports. I'll then probably end up dragging one of those nexos out into a feild with my prototype and pulling ou smaart for testing to make modifications to my design as well).
bottom line... yes my end result could very well resemble a copy... but I'd like to arrive at it myself (with a teeny bit of help regarding driver choice and outside dimensions). I'd also like to determine if the non neo equivalents will give me similar performance, since they are cheaper and will save me about 250 overall on the project.
for all intensive purposes, I'll only be copying the outer dimensions, and trying to arrive at all other data myself (I dont plan on measuring the ports. I'll then probably end up dragging one of those nexos out into a feild with my prototype and pulling ou smaart for testing to make modifications to my design as well).
bottom line... yes my end result could very well resemble a copy... but I'd like to arrive at it myself (with a teeny bit of help regarding driver choice and outside dimensions). I'd also like to determine if the non neo equivalents will give me similar performance, since they are cheaper and will save me about 250 overall on the project.
Sean,
The thread is entitled "Trying to match the Nexo rs15", so I assumed you wanted to match it's phase and power response, which requires the porting to be the same as the original.
Nothing wrong with modeling, but if you want the cabinets to sound the same, build them the same.
I'll likely build the box with similar outside dimensions, a straight slot port on either side of same outer dimension (largest point) of the nexo, and shape my ports using a hard foam material. again, measurements comparing phase and response using smaart vs the nexo ray sub.
I'm trying not to feel lame although I'm essientially replacing the job of a chinese cabinet cloner with a local one okay!
I'll basically be doing this for $10 an hour in actual labor time. all research and modelling measuring is for enjoyment. they my friends for a reason lol.
I'm trying not to feel lame although I'm essientially replacing the job of a chinese cabinet cloner with a local one okay!
I'll basically be doing this for $10 an hour in actual labor time. all research and modelling measuring is for enjoyment. they my friends for a reason lol.
A "hard foam material" is not likely to be as stiff as plywood.
A straight slot port on either side of same outer dimension (largest point) of the Nexo will have a higher Fb.
If you are going to copy the cabinet, just copy it- as long as you are not selling it, it's legal.
Oh, that's right, you're selling it for $10 per hour 🙄.
The outside of the Nexo port looks like DSL's CS30 port, wonder if it is similar inside.
If it is, your plan stated above will be way off in Fb 😉.
Art
Attachments
again, thanks for the useful tips art. I follow your posts pretty heavily. your keystone sub looks great and I want to build one so badly... but I'll be doing a lot of $10 an hour labor, and tracking down a lot of potential clients before I can afford the BCSW115 though (nevermind the amp to drive it) 
Your dual lab12 ported box will probalby be makinga feature in my place of sawdust creation pretty soon (as soon as I reel in this pair i'm eying).
The ports are somewhat simlar to that, although it is the outside edge that is curved, not the inside. I'd only be using the foam for the testing purposes (not long term solution, just to get the port volume and shape correct, then install some curved ply). those ports are indeed the tricky part though 🙁
bottom line, they hire me about 3 times a month (over a 2 year period) to bring out a pair of *not to be named* 15" horn loaded subs to complement their nexos on all edm events they host, despite my complaints that i can never get them to really play nicely with the nexos. they just tack it on to the rental costs for the venue (edm is outsider promoters), and my fee is very low for this type of thing. They were pretty much ready to hand me money for a pair of them about a year ago when I objected (I'd feel bad installing those next to the nexo boxes), and stated I'd start poking my head around to find something to build that will *play nice* with the nexos if they plan on having them installed long term, and were unwilling to part with their current system.
I justify it as *not taking business away from nexo*, as they'll forever go without upgrading (cant justify the nearly 10k cost to add 2 subs, and another NXAMP), unless theres another solution thats actually within there longterm splurge budet of only 3k (including POWER). I suppose they could hunt for used cabs... but then again, that wouldnt be nexo getting there money anyways 😉. probably shaky reasoning at best... but hey, kids gotta work, I'd prefer 10 dollars an hour making sweet bass waves then 10 dollars an hour making burgers.
Your dual lab12 ported box will probalby be makinga feature in my place of sawdust creation pretty soon (as soon as I reel in this pair i'm eying).
The ports are somewhat simlar to that, although it is the outside edge that is curved, not the inside. I'd only be using the foam for the testing purposes (not long term solution, just to get the port volume and shape correct, then install some curved ply). those ports are indeed the tricky part though 🙁
bottom line, they hire me about 3 times a month (over a 2 year period) to bring out a pair of *not to be named* 15" horn loaded subs to complement their nexos on all edm events they host, despite my complaints that i can never get them to really play nicely with the nexos. they just tack it on to the rental costs for the venue (edm is outsider promoters), and my fee is very low for this type of thing. They were pretty much ready to hand me money for a pair of them about a year ago when I objected (I'd feel bad installing those next to the nexo boxes), and stated I'd start poking my head around to find something to build that will *play nice* with the nexos if they plan on having them installed long term, and were unwilling to part with their current system.
I justify it as *not taking business away from nexo*, as they'll forever go without upgrading (cant justify the nearly 10k cost to add 2 subs, and another NXAMP), unless theres another solution thats actually within there longterm splurge budet of only 3k (including POWER). I suppose they could hunt for used cabs... but then again, that wouldnt be nexo getting there money anyways 😉. probably shaky reasoning at best... but hey, kids gotta work, I'd prefer 10 dollars an hour making sweet bass waves then 10 dollars an hour making burgers.
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Why not build the copies, load them with your 3015L, and continue making money renting something that will play better together than your unnamed horn loaded subs?
Dont get me wrong... I'm not "unhappy" with the unnamed boxes... For the amp power I can give them, and equal driver number (money is always the limiting agent), I think that 4 of them would smack 2 vented boxes.... despite the poor standing some people seem to hold them in. My search for alternative horn designs (tapped or FLH) for the drivers in them was/is spurred by a desire to build, and a constant want/need to improve my rig on a budget. me and my crew also consist of myself (105 lbs), and my live in girlfriend (85 lbs), who carry these boxes up a flight of stairs 3 times a month now (the 18" wide aracuo ones are not too bad, but aracuo is unobtainium here now, and the same 18" wide ones in baltic birch are a bit heavier).
On to the embarrassing details. The 3 or more gigs a month at the venue in question dont pay well (AT ALL). This venue was one of the first places I started getting "rented" regularly... and in the early days (almost 3 years ago) of my feeble speaker business career, I was willing to take whatever I could get, just for experience and a little money in the pocket. It went from 1 show a month, to 2, to 3, etc, all at the current rate (and only a 2 sub rental), and has basically taken to eating up 3 saturdays a month for me at the low grandfathered in rate.
These people are my friends (both the promoters who pay the bill, and the venue owners who suggested me)... but almost 3 years down the road (with 6 subs in the inventory), I'm constantly on the search for better paying gigs that use more rig... but I'd like to avoid denying my friends at the venue the services i've offered this whole time, which have generally led to me getting hired for other events, closer to my real world asking price. The only thing that sucks is Im stuck not being able to do the better paying gigs on the days the current venue hires me (which can be almost every weekend).
THE PLAN: rather than hurting our friendship and possibly losing business by asking for a raise (which is probably what I SHOULD do), is to provide them with a permanent solution to their lack of lf problem, make a little in labor money, get a lot in terms of reputation (the venue IS nice, and well frequented), AND make myself available to work gigs that could and will pay 3 to 10 times as much as the current agreement. Happy smiles all around, more work for me 🙂 and I finally get to pull out of my 12k a year peak that supports me and my live in girlfriend. Oh... and buy a vehicle LOL (we got casters so we're usually running speakers down the streets hahaha)
On to the embarrassing details. The 3 or more gigs a month at the venue in question dont pay well (AT ALL). This venue was one of the first places I started getting "rented" regularly... and in the early days (almost 3 years ago) of my feeble speaker business career, I was willing to take whatever I could get, just for experience and a little money in the pocket. It went from 1 show a month, to 2, to 3, etc, all at the current rate (and only a 2 sub rental), and has basically taken to eating up 3 saturdays a month for me at the low grandfathered in rate.
These people are my friends (both the promoters who pay the bill, and the venue owners who suggested me)... but almost 3 years down the road (with 6 subs in the inventory), I'm constantly on the search for better paying gigs that use more rig... but I'd like to avoid denying my friends at the venue the services i've offered this whole time, which have generally led to me getting hired for other events, closer to my real world asking price. The only thing that sucks is Im stuck not being able to do the better paying gigs on the days the current venue hires me (which can be almost every weekend).
THE PLAN: rather than hurting our friendship and possibly losing business by asking for a raise (which is probably what I SHOULD do), is to provide them with a permanent solution to their lack of lf problem, make a little in labor money, get a lot in terms of reputation (the venue IS nice, and well frequented), AND make myself available to work gigs that could and will pay 3 to 10 times as much as the current agreement. Happy smiles all around, more work for me 🙂 and I finally get to pull out of my 12k a year peak that supports me and my live in girlfriend. Oh... and buy a vehicle LOL (we got casters so we're usually running speakers down the streets hahaha)
My first priority to look for the right driver to model would be, see note(*), (net) internal volume (1), and (net) volume for port (2) including sure the cross section area (or diam.)(3) and total length (4) this giving the overall tuning F for the enclosure.
*) This for each driver.
Get some results (1, 2, 3 & 4) and give some substance to the start of your reverse engineering project.
I also assume the driver that you're talking about (here^) is the Eminence Kappalite 3015LF Neo 15".
Good luck for your business.
*) This for each driver.
Get some results (1, 2, 3 & 4) and give some substance to the start of your reverse engineering project.
I also assume the driver that you're talking about (here^) is the Eminence Kappalite 3015LF Neo 15".
Good luck for your business.
I agree with art.
Pull the drivers out, get an exact match, and build the subs as close to the current ones as possible.
For this purpose, that is your best bet.
Pull the drivers out, get an exact match, and build the subs as close to the current ones as possible.
For this purpose, that is your best bet.
well. ditched winisd and eminence designer to take the time to star becoming familar with horn resp (even though vented is like... super simple by comparison). so far I've hit 105 db at 40 hz/2.83v for a "pair" of single loaded 15nw76 paralleled cabs, that combined fill up about 10 more liters (with port/s) than the nexo. gonna be playing around with it. to get those numbers down.
I wonder if the nexo sensitivity was claimed at 2 volts (for 4 ohms) or 2.83...
I wonder if the nexo sensitivity was claimed at 2 volts (for 4 ohms) or 2.83...
So it begins. Once you begin down the dark path, forever will it doiminate your destiny.
Just don't start playing with Hornresp at work. You'll never get anything done.
Just don't start playing with Hornresp at work. You'll never get anything done.
Haha, i work 90% electronic music shows (thats my job). After setup/system balance/ room tune is done its a matter of gradually ramping up te holume troughout the night and staying out of the clip light + occasionally(every gig) yelling at stupid redlining djs. Ifo all my amp metering in aystem architect which means i already have a computer open. Usually i play with eminence designer when i get bored.
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