Hello,
I have a question for the knowledgeable tube socket people out there!
I found a few cheap sockets that look like they will do the job, but which one is best?
I need to replace a tube socket in a Fender Vibro Champ guitar amplifier. The original tube socket over heated in a spot and the insulation is now conductive creating a resistive short from the output pin to the heater pin on a 6V6 tube. I scraped a groove out of the burnt part until I got into a good portion of the socket insulation, & could not read any resistance with my ohm-meter afterwards, & the amp works fine, but I want to replace the tube socket since it was heated to that extent & I believe it is no longer reliable. I am thinking a previous output tube shorted and caused it to overheat & that’s what led to the problem, as everything else in the amp seems fine & sounds good after I separated the short circuit. (the amp was missing the rectifier tube & output tube when brought to me so I can't test any tube for shorts).
Here are the sockets I found on ebay that I will probably be buying, but I would like to know which one is a better quality or are they about the same (the price is the same). I know one is ceramic, but I am unsure of the other, & one says Micalex. Can someone tell me which is better for my application? Seems like the ceramic would be a good choice, but I really don’t know.
I don’t work on much tube equipment (still learning as I get the stuff brought to me for repair) so my knowledge is limited on tube sockets, the ceramic ones look good, but the black ones look almost the same as the original ones, the brown ones look really close too. I think the ceramic (white) ones would withstand more heat, but I don’t know for sure, if the ceramic is better I will use them.
Both the output tube (6V6) & rectifier tube (5Y3) use the same socket, I think I may change them both so they match, but the rectifier socket still looks great.
Here are the ebay item numbers to the sockets I am looking at getting (I could not seem to get the links to work, so if you can, the item numbers can be copy & pasted into the ebay search):
Here is the white ceramic socket:
8 pin ceramic octal tube socket bottom mnt 6L6 6V6 EL34
Item number: 150383787642
or
Here is the black one that looks very similar to the original brown socket in the amp (I don’t know the material of this one, maybe bakelite or something):
8 pin octal tube socket 1 1/16" top mount 6SN7 6V6 EL34
Item number: 150383787634
or
I seen this one as well, it says its made out of Micalex (not sure what that is or if it’s a good insulator) although it may be a tight fit, but I already figured I may have to make the chassis hole slightly larger to accommodate the new sockets anyway, so I guess that’s not a big issue:
8 pin Micalex octal tube socket for 6V6 6L6 EL34 6SN7
Item number: 150383787638
There all the same price so whichever is best for my application I will get. I hope someone with knowledge on this can help! I do appreciate it! Thank you all & I hope to get some info on this. Take care! Pioneer621
I have a question for the knowledgeable tube socket people out there!
I found a few cheap sockets that look like they will do the job, but which one is best?
I need to replace a tube socket in a Fender Vibro Champ guitar amplifier. The original tube socket over heated in a spot and the insulation is now conductive creating a resistive short from the output pin to the heater pin on a 6V6 tube. I scraped a groove out of the burnt part until I got into a good portion of the socket insulation, & could not read any resistance with my ohm-meter afterwards, & the amp works fine, but I want to replace the tube socket since it was heated to that extent & I believe it is no longer reliable. I am thinking a previous output tube shorted and caused it to overheat & that’s what led to the problem, as everything else in the amp seems fine & sounds good after I separated the short circuit. (the amp was missing the rectifier tube & output tube when brought to me so I can't test any tube for shorts).
Here are the sockets I found on ebay that I will probably be buying, but I would like to know which one is a better quality or are they about the same (the price is the same). I know one is ceramic, but I am unsure of the other, & one says Micalex. Can someone tell me which is better for my application? Seems like the ceramic would be a good choice, but I really don’t know.
I don’t work on much tube equipment (still learning as I get the stuff brought to me for repair) so my knowledge is limited on tube sockets, the ceramic ones look good, but the black ones look almost the same as the original ones, the brown ones look really close too. I think the ceramic (white) ones would withstand more heat, but I don’t know for sure, if the ceramic is better I will use them.
Both the output tube (6V6) & rectifier tube (5Y3) use the same socket, I think I may change them both so they match, but the rectifier socket still looks great.
Here are the ebay item numbers to the sockets I am looking at getting (I could not seem to get the links to work, so if you can, the item numbers can be copy & pasted into the ebay search):
Here is the white ceramic socket:
8 pin ceramic octal tube socket bottom mnt 6L6 6V6 EL34
Item number: 150383787642
or
Here is the black one that looks very similar to the original brown socket in the amp (I don’t know the material of this one, maybe bakelite or something):
8 pin octal tube socket 1 1/16" top mount 6SN7 6V6 EL34
Item number: 150383787634
or
I seen this one as well, it says its made out of Micalex (not sure what that is or if it’s a good insulator) although it may be a tight fit, but I already figured I may have to make the chassis hole slightly larger to accommodate the new sockets anyway, so I guess that’s not a big issue:
8 pin Micalex octal tube socket for 6V6 6L6 EL34 6SN7
Item number: 150383787638
There all the same price so whichever is best for my application I will get. I hope someone with knowledge on this can help! I do appreciate it! Thank you all & I hope to get some info on this. Take care! Pioneer621
Hi,
Honestly, any of those will likely outlive you.
We're not takling 6146B's in a VHF transmitter... just a 6V6 class guitar amp 🙂
Cheers!
Honestly, any of those will likely outlive you.
We're not takling 6146B's in a VHF transmitter... just a 6V6 class guitar amp 🙂
Cheers!
I've used the Belton sockets, which are made of Micalex. They're not too expensive and I've been extremely happy with how nice they are. They seem better than the slightly less expensive generic ceramic sockets.
One thing to remember is to be careful when you're soldering on any of those sockets. I had to steal a contact from a spare socket to fix a place where the solder got into the pin contact in one position, preventing the tube from being inserted (too much solder/cooking the connection too long). It was easy to fix, but I hated having to rob Peter to pay Paul, as it were. Now I have a spare Belton 9-pin that's good for nothing but supplying contacts to fix future screw-ups.
I've found that giving up on my cheapo Radio Shack $5 soldering iron has improved the quality of my work considerably. It always ran too hot, scorching circuit boards and oxidizing the tip. The burnt tip was nearly impossible to keep wetted with solder, resulting in lousy connections.
I discovered this Aoyue 936 soldering station for less than $45 shipped. It's so much nicer to use, and was well worth the price. It is a real temperature controlled station, so it is much easier to avoid cooking the thing you are trying to solder.
http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i43/Ty_Bower/GetSetGo/aoyue936.jpg
Last edited:
This is a common failure in a guitar amp and it is usually caused by operating the amplifier with out a speaker, with the wrong impedance speaker, or unplugging the speaker while playing. This is less likely in a Vibro Champ since the speaker is built in. It can also be caused by dirt and humidity build up. The plate voltage (pin 3) can swing to almost 800 volts when the amp is cranked into clipping, and the heater (pin 2) is grounded.
I try to use the old style white creamic sockets in guitar amps since they are immune to being carbonized (burnt, what happened to your socket).
Aspects of the exchange of slots:
1. mechanical compatibility
2. quality insulating and temperature resistance - for power tubes is very good ceramics, glazed ceramics better
3. quality and lifetime of contacts, must be flexible and not brittle, the shape of contact, material, plating, etc..
1. mechanical compatibility
2. quality insulating and temperature resistance - for power tubes is very good ceramics, glazed ceramics better
3. quality and lifetime of contacts, must be flexible and not brittle, the shape of contact, material, plating, etc..
Ty, I'm using a Weller WTPC temperature controlled iron. The problem was too much solder applied to the lug, and it wicked down into the socket contact. Working on the chassis all the time with it tilted on its side and all the lugs in the horizontal plane would have helped prevent the mishap. Anyway, it's fixed, and the amp is working. More about that in the "Kingfisher" thread.
Thanks for the responses everyone!
Geek, yeah I figured they were not too critical in a small guitar amp such as this, but was curious as to which one would be best. Yeah, high frequency transmitters would probably be more critical.
Ty_Bower, I did see those Belton sockets but was unsure if they were what I needed, they look very similar to the factory ones in the amp, so my guess is they would work fine. The Belton sockets actually look very much like the brown ones I was looking at on ebay, but not sure if they are Belton, but they do say Micalex, not sure if they are the same quality though.
wrenchbone, I will definitely be careful while soldering to the connection pins, I have seen the solder wick down into other connectors & the stuff would not plug in! So I understand what you are saying. At least you have a spare socket for parts incase you need it, so it will not go to waste, never hurts having spare parts around!
Tubelab.com, good info to know! The amplifier is not mine & the owner if I am not mistaken purchased it in this condition, so I am not sure how it was previously operated, could have been used without a speaker or with wrong impedance and such, I don’t know, it was brought to me like this so I could take a look at it and repair what was needed.
I was thinking the ceramic socket would work ok in this amp, so I am leaning towards that one, but still not sure yet. If it will help prevent this problem in the future, it might not hurt going with ceramic.
Sendy, I am trying to find one with similar mechanical dimensions so it will fit, but if I have to make the chassis hole slightly larger I don’t think that will be a problem, but I would like to find one that will fit. The ceramic one I am looking at seems to be very close to the diameter of the one I will be replacing.
I think the ceramic one would be a good choice & I think I may go with that.
As for quality I am not sure with the ones I am watching on ebay. They are low cost so I assume quality is not the greatest, but will it be good enough for the guitar amp I am putting them in?
richwalters, are you saying the sockets I am watching on ebay are the worst sockets to get? They are low cost so I am sure quality is not the highest, but will they work for my application? I am thinking of going with the ceramic one, as it looks like it will fit fine & the insulating should be good & will be fine with heat. If the one I am looking at on ebay (Item number: 150383787642) is not a very good quality socket & may not hold the tube in well, do you know of a good socket I could get for this amp that is not too expensive?
I was going to order a couple today, was going to go with the ceramic as it seems they are a good choice for the power tubes & should not have any problems, but after reading richwalters post it got me wondering if they are going to hold the tubes in place without any trouble, I would hate to find out the tube slipped out of the socket, the tubes seem to fit nice and snug in the factory sockets, hopefully these sockets on ebay will hold them in equally well?
I think I am going to go with the ceramic ones on ebay (Item number: 150383787642); they seem cheap enough to try out. Anybody have experience with these particular sockets? Hopefully they will work ok, I think they will.
I thank you all for the information & it definitely helps! I guess it kind of comes down to quality & hopefully the ceramic one will be good enough. I think I will wait until later today to buy them so I can maybe get some more info, but if not, the price is pretty low so I may just grab two & see what I think after they get here.
Again, I thank you all very much!
Geek, yeah I figured they were not too critical in a small guitar amp such as this, but was curious as to which one would be best. Yeah, high frequency transmitters would probably be more critical.
Ty_Bower, I did see those Belton sockets but was unsure if they were what I needed, they look very similar to the factory ones in the amp, so my guess is they would work fine. The Belton sockets actually look very much like the brown ones I was looking at on ebay, but not sure if they are Belton, but they do say Micalex, not sure if they are the same quality though.
wrenchbone, I will definitely be careful while soldering to the connection pins, I have seen the solder wick down into other connectors & the stuff would not plug in! So I understand what you are saying. At least you have a spare socket for parts incase you need it, so it will not go to waste, never hurts having spare parts around!
Tubelab.com, good info to know! The amplifier is not mine & the owner if I am not mistaken purchased it in this condition, so I am not sure how it was previously operated, could have been used without a speaker or with wrong impedance and such, I don’t know, it was brought to me like this so I could take a look at it and repair what was needed.
I was thinking the ceramic socket would work ok in this amp, so I am leaning towards that one, but still not sure yet. If it will help prevent this problem in the future, it might not hurt going with ceramic.
Sendy, I am trying to find one with similar mechanical dimensions so it will fit, but if I have to make the chassis hole slightly larger I don’t think that will be a problem, but I would like to find one that will fit. The ceramic one I am looking at seems to be very close to the diameter of the one I will be replacing.
I think the ceramic one would be a good choice & I think I may go with that.
As for quality I am not sure with the ones I am watching on ebay. They are low cost so I assume quality is not the greatest, but will it be good enough for the guitar amp I am putting them in?
richwalters, are you saying the sockets I am watching on ebay are the worst sockets to get? They are low cost so I am sure quality is not the highest, but will they work for my application? I am thinking of going with the ceramic one, as it looks like it will fit fine & the insulating should be good & will be fine with heat. If the one I am looking at on ebay (Item number: 150383787642) is not a very good quality socket & may not hold the tube in well, do you know of a good socket I could get for this amp that is not too expensive?
I was going to order a couple today, was going to go with the ceramic as it seems they are a good choice for the power tubes & should not have any problems, but after reading richwalters post it got me wondering if they are going to hold the tubes in place without any trouble, I would hate to find out the tube slipped out of the socket, the tubes seem to fit nice and snug in the factory sockets, hopefully these sockets on ebay will hold them in equally well?
I think I am going to go with the ceramic ones on ebay (Item number: 150383787642); they seem cheap enough to try out. Anybody have experience with these particular sockets? Hopefully they will work ok, I think they will.
I thank you all for the information & it definitely helps! I guess it kind of comes down to quality & hopefully the ceramic one will be good enough. I think I will wait until later today to buy them so I can maybe get some more info, but if not, the price is pretty low so I may just grab two & see what I think after they get here.
Again, I thank you all very much!
OK, I know you have received a lot of information, much of it conflicting, so let me put in my $.02: you are far better off with any NOS U.S. made socket than any ceramic Chinese made socket. The Chinese sockets are trash: weak mounting ears and cheesey contacts that weaken quickly and create intermittant noise.
Buy a good quality Korean Micalex before you buy a very poor quality ceramic.
Just for comparison here is a high quality ceramic NOS made in the US.
15 TUBE SOCKETS,AUDIO,RADIO,TUBES CERAMIC BASE WWII ERA - eBay (item 160369811956 end time Oct-21-09 10:56:05 PDT)
Sorry, I have already bought these; but the picture shows clearly the difference in quality.
Buy a good quality Korean Micalex before you buy a very poor quality ceramic.
Just for comparison here is a high quality ceramic NOS made in the US.
15 TUBE SOCKETS,AUDIO,RADIO,TUBES CERAMIC BASE WWII ERA - eBay (item 160369811956 end time Oct-21-09 10:56:05 PDT)
Sorry, I have already bought these; but the picture shows clearly the difference in quality.
Attachments
I bought a set of belton sockets for my Tubelab Simple SE but unfortunately the pin spacing didnt work with the pcb. I really liked the quality of those compared to the chinese sockets that I currently am using.
Yes, their PCB mount sockets are a little funny.
http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i43/Ty_Bower/GetSetGo/Belton.jpg
Buy the Belton sockets, which are made of Micalex.
The best ones are made buy Belton and the material is "Micalex".
Don't bother with ebay, buy from a reputable souce. AES has Belton sockets
for $3.50 each. Search for P/N P-ST8-209MIP Antique Electronic Supply
For those not into Fender Guitar amps the main thing to look for in a socket for this amp is the contacts that grip the pins, not the insolation material as the tubes are mounted base up and hang from the socket, you don't want a loose fit.
The best ones are made buy Belton and the material is "Micalex".
Don't bother with ebay, buy from a reputable souce. AES has Belton sockets
for $3.50 each. Search for P/N P-ST8-209MIP Antique Electronic Supply
For those not into Fender Guitar amps the main thing to look for in a socket for this amp is the contacts that grip the pins, not the insolation material as the tubes are mounted base up and hang from the socket, you don't want a loose fit.
Well, if the tube sockets I am looking at on ebay (the ones I posted in my first post) are junk I won’t waste money on them. The way the tubes will be in these style amps I don’t want to risk one slipping out or making bad contact so I will look for a better socket. No one said to buy or not to buy the particular ones I was looking at so I thought they may be decent enough, but they are likely not very high quality & may not be well suited for the Fender amps.
Palustris,
The sockets in the picture look nice, the contacts on those look like they go around the tube pins well & make good contact, looks like it would hold the tube in well too.
Richwalters,
The Belton sockets look pretty good as well, I can’t see the contacts real well but they look good, I can’t really say much about any of them since I don’t have them here to compare, but they look nice. The New Old Stock ones Palustris showed look like they may be a little better made, but I can’t really say for sure as again I don’t have much experience with tube sockets & those NOS ones are quite a bit older.
Ok, do you guys think the Belton sockets would be adequate for my application & do they seem to hold the tubes in place with a nice snug fit? The tubes hang upside down in these Fender amps so the socket needs to hold them well.
I don’t think the guy is in a huge hurry to get it back, so I could keep my eye out for some NOS quality sockets on ebay & try to get a good price them. I don’t want to put junk or trash sockets in this guys amp, I am trying to save money, but there has to be something reasonable out here that is at a minimum the same quality or better then the original ones Fender used in there amps. The Belton socket may just be what I need?
The guy gave me the money for new tubes which I bought & there was a few dollars extra which he said to keep, I don’t think we are going to charge him anything for the sockets or the work as is why I was trying not to spend a ton, hopefully the Belton sockets are good & will work for this amp as they are not too expensive & I will only be spending a few bucks out of my pocket. I guess I sound cheap here, but I don’t have much money for this kind of stuff.
Ok, well I won’t jump into buying anything just yet, I will browse on ebay a bit more & see what I can find, if you guys think the Beltons are good I will probably get a set of them, but I won’t rush into buying anything.
Again, I appreciate all the help with this as I have never had to buy tube sockets yet & there seemed to be a few different types out there & I wanted to get some info on the subject before I went and bought some. Sometimes its good to live and learn, but it can be costly when you buy cheap stuff & end up replacing it with something better because the first stuff was too cheaply made. Thanks for all the help everybody!
Palustris,
The sockets in the picture look nice, the contacts on those look like they go around the tube pins well & make good contact, looks like it would hold the tube in well too.
Richwalters,
The Belton sockets look pretty good as well, I can’t see the contacts real well but they look good, I can’t really say much about any of them since I don’t have them here to compare, but they look nice. The New Old Stock ones Palustris showed look like they may be a little better made, but I can’t really say for sure as again I don’t have much experience with tube sockets & those NOS ones are quite a bit older.
Ok, do you guys think the Belton sockets would be adequate for my application & do they seem to hold the tubes in place with a nice snug fit? The tubes hang upside down in these Fender amps so the socket needs to hold them well.
I don’t think the guy is in a huge hurry to get it back, so I could keep my eye out for some NOS quality sockets on ebay & try to get a good price them. I don’t want to put junk or trash sockets in this guys amp, I am trying to save money, but there has to be something reasonable out here that is at a minimum the same quality or better then the original ones Fender used in there amps. The Belton socket may just be what I need?
The guy gave me the money for new tubes which I bought & there was a few dollars extra which he said to keep, I don’t think we are going to charge him anything for the sockets or the work as is why I was trying not to spend a ton, hopefully the Belton sockets are good & will work for this amp as they are not too expensive & I will only be spending a few bucks out of my pocket. I guess I sound cheap here, but I don’t have much money for this kind of stuff.
Ok, well I won’t jump into buying anything just yet, I will browse on ebay a bit more & see what I can find, if you guys think the Beltons are good I will probably get a set of them, but I won’t rush into buying anything.
Again, I appreciate all the help with this as I have never had to buy tube sockets yet & there seemed to be a few different types out there & I wanted to get some info on the subject before I went and bought some. Sometimes its good to live and learn, but it can be costly when you buy cheap stuff & end up replacing it with something better because the first stuff was too cheaply made. Thanks for all the help everybody!
ChrisA, Yes that is one of my concerns; holding the tube in snuggly as they hang upside down in these Fender amps & need contacts that will grip the pins like you say.
Well, it seems a few people seem happy with the Belton Micalex sockets, so I am leaning towards them. They look like decent sockets as long as they do hold the tube in tightly.
Ive been grabbing a variety of sockets of various materials for use in amps as aesthetics demand - these are a few observations....
I'm using the Belton sockets in my Kingfisher amp. The octal sockets have fork contacts (as opposed to sleeve contacts) with very good retention force. This I would think is important in a guitar amp, which is likely to see a lot of mechanical abuse and vibration. I've also seen Russian sockets with fork contacts at very reasonable prices, both in black phenolic and ceramic. Since you're replacing a socket that had some high voltage tracking issues, ceramic may be your best bet, as George has mentioned. I have both of these sockets in hand (Russian phenolic and ceramic octals), and the build quality looks good - not surprising, since they were most likely military issue. I used the Beltons in my Kingfisher, as I had both 9-pins and octals in matching colors, and the tubes are right there on the top of the amp (ah, aesthetics...). The Belton octal socket has built-in mounting flange, while the Russian octal sockets have a separate mounting ring that can be deployed for either above or under-chassis mounting - a nice feature, though the rings are easy to misplace.
The Belton 9-pin sockets are good quality with ok retention force. They have sleeve contacts, as do the majority of sockets this size. I've seen 9-pin sockets for auction that appear to have fork contacts, but I wouldn't swear to it. The Belton micalex body material is very hard and durable, and stands up to soldering heat with no sign of degradation. This appears to be better quality material than your run-of-the-mill brown phenolic, maybe not far short of ceramic. I don't know about the tracking resistance compared to ceramic, though I would bet that the Belton material is far superior to plain phenolic in tracking resistance (it may not even be phenolic - it feels harder).
I'm using the Belton sockets in my Kingfisher amp. The octal sockets have fork contacts (as opposed to sleeve contacts) with very good retention force. This I would think is important in a guitar amp, which is likely to see a lot of mechanical abuse and vibration. I've also seen Russian sockets with fork contacts at very reasonable prices, both in black phenolic and ceramic. Since you're replacing a socket that had some high voltage tracking issues, ceramic may be your best bet, as George has mentioned. I have both of these sockets in hand (Russian phenolic and ceramic octals), and the build quality looks good - not surprising, since they were most likely military issue. I used the Beltons in my Kingfisher, as I had both 9-pins and octals in matching colors, and the tubes are right there on the top of the amp (ah, aesthetics...). The Belton octal socket has built-in mounting flange, while the Russian octal sockets have a separate mounting ring that can be deployed for either above or under-chassis mounting - a nice feature, though the rings are easy to misplace.
The Belton 9-pin sockets are good quality with ok retention force. They have sleeve contacts, as do the majority of sockets this size. I've seen 9-pin sockets for auction that appear to have fork contacts, but I wouldn't swear to it. The Belton micalex body material is very hard and durable, and stands up to soldering heat with no sign of degradation. This appears to be better quality material than your run-of-the-mill brown phenolic, maybe not far short of ceramic. I don't know about the tracking resistance compared to ceramic, though I would bet that the Belton material is far superior to plain phenolic in tracking resistance (it may not even be phenolic - it feels harder).
You may also want to invest in some jaw-style tube retainers. The fork contacts grip the tube pins pretty tightly, but I don't know that I'd totally trust that by itself to hold an upside down tube in place. Also, heat resistance is important, as all the air heated by the tubes is wafted upward, bathing the tube bases and sockets.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.