What I try to do
I want to make a setup to stream the audio signal from my TV, to wireless speakers. The picture below shows my 1st attempt. In this setup I connected an Arylic S10 to the TV, to convert the TV-audio signal to a stream. Both (active) speakers have an Arylic Up2Stream Mini, as receiver for the audio signal from the TV. The two speakers are grouped as a stereo set.
Issue
In this setup, there is a delay between the audio and the image on the TV. So to speak; if you see someone talking on the TV, the words come 2 seconds later.
What I found out
The Arylic products I used in my 1st setup are based on the Linkplay A31 chipset. As soon as they are grouped, they delay the audio signal coming through for buffering and synching.
Somewhere I read that AirPlay2 does not create a delay in the audio stream, even not when grouped.
My questions
So now I am thinking over if it makes sense to look for a TV, that supports AirPlay2 for streaming audio to wireless speakers.
For the speakers I am thinking to change from the Linkplay A31, to the Linkplay A98. This chipset supports AirPlay2. And it is integrated in the modules by CloudYX, for instance the CL-98BW.
I want to make a setup to stream the audio signal from my TV, to wireless speakers. The picture below shows my 1st attempt. In this setup I connected an Arylic S10 to the TV, to convert the TV-audio signal to a stream. Both (active) speakers have an Arylic Up2Stream Mini, as receiver for the audio signal from the TV. The two speakers are grouped as a stereo set.
Issue
In this setup, there is a delay between the audio and the image on the TV. So to speak; if you see someone talking on the TV, the words come 2 seconds later.
What I found out
The Arylic products I used in my 1st setup are based on the Linkplay A31 chipset. As soon as they are grouped, they delay the audio signal coming through for buffering and synching.
Somewhere I read that AirPlay2 does not create a delay in the audio stream, even not when grouped.
My questions
So now I am thinking over if it makes sense to look for a TV, that supports AirPlay2 for streaming audio to wireless speakers.
For the speakers I am thinking to change from the Linkplay A31, to the Linkplay A98. This chipset supports AirPlay2. And it is integrated in the modules by CloudYX, for instance the CL-98BW.
- Does anyone have experience with streaming audio from a TV, with AirPlay(2), to wireless speakers?
- Does anyone have experience with the Linkplay A98 chipset, or the CloudYX CL-98BW?
The TV should delay video by 2sec. I don’t know if these exists. If you stream from apple product than it deals with that.
Digital video/audio has those issues.
During fifa world cup someones shout goals several seconds after others.
During fifa world cup someones shout goals several seconds after others.
Thank you all for responding!
@Baffless - TV’s don’t have functionality for delaying the video. Some only have a function for delaying the audio. But that doesn’t help me because the audio is already delayed.
@Osvaldo de Banfield - Iknow, but that is a different issue. What you describe is that the stream on one device could be delayed compared to the stream on another device. But video and audio are then still synched.
my Casey’s different. The TV is the source voor audio and video, but audio has te be converted in a separate stream for wireless audio. And in this case the Linkplay causes this delay in the audio. So I am hoping it could be different with a different Linkplay chipset (A98) and a different protocol (AirPlay2).
@planet10 - My case is not about AirPlay-ing from a device to a TV. But sending the audio from a TV, wirelessly to wireless speakers.
@Baffless - TV’s don’t have functionality for delaying the video. Some only have a function for delaying the audio. But that doesn’t help me because the audio is already delayed.
@Osvaldo de Banfield - Iknow, but that is a different issue. What you describe is that the stream on one device could be delayed compared to the stream on another device. But video and audio are then still synched.
my Casey’s different. The TV is the source voor audio and video, but audio has te be converted in a separate stream for wireless audio. And in this case the Linkplay causes this delay in the audio. So I am hoping it could be different with a different Linkplay chipset (A98) and a different protocol (AirPlay2).
@planet10 - My case is not about AirPlay-ing from a device to a TV. But sending the audio from a TV, wirelessly to wireless speakers.
I have yet to see a "delay video by X" feature on any television. Compared to audio, a video signal comprises much more data and the buffer would need to have a lot of memory to hold even one second, and that would be expensive for a feature hardly anyone would use.
Also, I don't believe that the Airplay delay is guaranteed to be consistent from one usage to the next, the exact amount of video delay to match the audio would need to be adjusted each time.
Basically, any non-analog wireless signal will have a delay because it will consist of sampled data and that data is usually buffered. There might be some platforms with very little delay such that it would be imperceptible. You would need to read the specs for any such device to know.
This product would work for you:
https://outlawaudio.com/shop/accessories/39-oaw4-wireless-audio-system.html
There is also the possibility of using an analog device, sometimes called an "AV sender". This can send audio and composite video wirelessly, and as long as the distance is not long and there are no walls in between it works. When using the audio jacks to send audio , the audio quality may be OK up to pretty good, depending on the implementation. The Outlaw Audio system is probably designed around this sort of technology. But what is interesting is that you can send 44.1k Hz digital (SPDIF) signals over the video channel and there is just enough bandwidth to work. The composite video input on the sender is just a coax jack, so if you can get a coax SPDIF output or convert Toslink from your TV to coax you just connect that right to the video channel. Then on the other end you will get the same SPDIF out, from a coax video output jack, and you can use it directly or connect a DAC. I did that about 15 years ago when I first tried to do wireless audio. It worked but I wanted to use it over longer distances and there were too many issues with the particular units I bought. It has zero delay and would work for your needs.
Here is an example of such a product:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832759751001.html
Also, I don't believe that the Airplay delay is guaranteed to be consistent from one usage to the next, the exact amount of video delay to match the audio would need to be adjusted each time.
Basically, any non-analog wireless signal will have a delay because it will consist of sampled data and that data is usually buffered. There might be some platforms with very little delay such that it would be imperceptible. You would need to read the specs for any such device to know.
This product would work for you:
https://outlawaudio.com/shop/accessories/39-oaw4-wireless-audio-system.html
There is also the possibility of using an analog device, sometimes called an "AV sender". This can send audio and composite video wirelessly, and as long as the distance is not long and there are no walls in between it works. When using the audio jacks to send audio , the audio quality may be OK up to pretty good, depending on the implementation. The Outlaw Audio system is probably designed around this sort of technology. But what is interesting is that you can send 44.1k Hz digital (SPDIF) signals over the video channel and there is just enough bandwidth to work. The composite video input on the sender is just a coax jack, so if you can get a coax SPDIF output or convert Toslink from your TV to coax you just connect that right to the video channel. Then on the other end you will get the same SPDIF out, from a coax video output jack, and you can use it directly or connect a DAC. I did that about 15 years ago when I first tried to do wireless audio. It worked but I wanted to use it over longer distances and there were too many issues with the particular units I bought. It has zero delay and would work for your needs.
Here is an example of such a product:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832759751001.html
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In ANY situation where a signal such as audio is Converted (dig-analog), there is always the chance of having a delay via processing.
It goes with the turf.
It goes with the turf.
3or 4 frames of lip flap is perceptible by most and it is objectionable if audio precedes the video more than the other way. In Professional environments we have handles to delay or advance both audio and video streams but it is usually the audio that must be delayed. Consumer equipment doesn’t have the buffering capabilities to allow video buffering and limited audio buffering. 2 seconds of delay is an eternity and would be suggesting serious incompatibility with the sending and receiving devices. Try a different brand of TV and see if the delay has changed. I find it odd that any current manufacturer would not have tested the AirPlay compatibility. Try playing a different stream via AirPlay like YouTube and see if the delay changes.
After looking at your diagram you are going to get a bad delay through an external transmitter! The transmit system has an inherent delay due to processing time. If you hardwire the speakers you’ll be good or transmit both the video to the TV and the audio to the speakers they will be closer together but using the audio source from the TV it will never be in time. The TV has played the image as it outputs the audio which then has to be transmitted and received and converted to analog, that takes time which is the delay you’re hearing.
Thanks to all for the thought contributions!
@CharlieLaub - I agree, a 'delay video by X' is not a typical function on a TV. I have seen that have a 'frame delay' function, but as far as I know, it is not enough delay to cope with my case.
For the OAW4 product; isn't this just a audio signal transmitter? I am not sure, but I think this will not solve my delay of audio being 'behind' the video. If you have other thoughts let me know. For the other product, I think it is the same.
Can tyou please have a look at my questions below about Sonos?
@wiseoldtech - This is true, especially theoretically. But please see my questions below about Sonos.
@mdpaudio - I have send questions to Sony and Samsung Europe to find out more about this. So far no concrete useful information.
My diagram, yes you are right. But bear with me, this was just a starting point for me to find things out.
Can tyou also please have a look at my questions below about Sonos?
Question to all:
@CharlieLaub - I agree, a 'delay video by X' is not a typical function on a TV. I have seen that have a 'frame delay' function, but as far as I know, it is not enough delay to cope with my case.
For the OAW4 product; isn't this just a audio signal transmitter? I am not sure, but I think this will not solve my delay of audio being 'behind' the video. If you have other thoughts let me know. For the other product, I think it is the same.
Can tyou please have a look at my questions below about Sonos?
@wiseoldtech - This is true, especially theoretically. But please see my questions below about Sonos.
@mdpaudio - I have send questions to Sony and Samsung Europe to find out more about this. So far no concrete useful information.
My diagram, yes you are right. But bear with me, this was just a starting point for me to find things out.
Can tyou also please have a look at my questions below about Sonos?
Question to all:
- Sonos offers their products to be used as sound system for TV's. How do they cope with this kind of delay?
- Anyone any experience with Sonos and wireless sound from the TV?
Update
Still digging and reading information about this topic, I found some more relevant information.
Obviously, what is needed is a kind of 'controller' that can manage the video/audio synchronization. For wireless sound and TV's there are two technologies:
I have seen someone using the Apple TV 4K box together with AirPlay compatible speakers. He mentioned that the Apple TV box in this case handles the synchronization, and can even play stereo to a set of wireless stereo speakers, without delay.
This could be an interesting option for me to use in my speaker projects.
My question:
There are a lot of TV's that have AirPlay2 'on-board'. But what I would like to know, do they have the capability (like the Apple TV 4K box) to control the synchronization between video on the TV screen and audio coming from the wireless speakers (so no delay)?
Still digging and reading information about this topic, I found some more relevant information.
Obviously, what is needed is a kind of 'controller' that can manage the video/audio synchronization. For wireless sound and TV's there are two technologies:
- WISA
- Apple AirPlay2
I have seen someone using the Apple TV 4K box together with AirPlay compatible speakers. He mentioned that the Apple TV box in this case handles the synchronization, and can even play stereo to a set of wireless stereo speakers, without delay.
This could be an interesting option for me to use in my speaker projects.
My question:
There are a lot of TV's that have AirPlay2 'on-board'. But what I would like to know, do they have the capability (like the Apple TV 4K box) to control the synchronization between video on the TV screen and audio coming from the wireless speakers (so no delay)?
There once was a perfect solution called "a wire" for that. It had no sampling and delay issues. A modern version with almost non noticeable delay are either Toslink or coax SPDIF cables which both do a good job. So these were the reasonably well working solutions.
Anything wireless and/or with compression/decompression has one main parameter which is "convenience", the rest of the extra free parameters are mainly drawbacks. So if you choose convenience and possibilities then you get some features for free. One can not refuse free gifts.
Anything wireless and/or with compression/decompression has one main parameter which is "convenience", the rest of the extra free parameters are mainly drawbacks. So if you choose convenience and possibilities then you get some features for free. One can not refuse free gifts.
Dear @jean-paul , thanks for your comment.
Of course, your are right, nothing exceeds a good cable connection in quality, reliability and so on.
It is just that this is a use case for people that seek convenience, and therefor an unwired system.
If you have recommendations answering my questions about this use case, feel free to reply.
Of course, your are right, nothing exceeds a good cable connection in quality, reliability and so on.
It is just that this is a use case for people that seek convenience, and therefor an unwired system.
If you have recommendations answering my questions about this use case, feel free to reply.
Update: Scenario 2 > TV sound via AirPlay to AirPlay speakers
In the meantime, I found more information for this use case. I learned that the issue of wireless audio from a TV/video source to wireless speakers, does not exist between the 'Apple TV 4K' box and AirPlay compatible speakers.
The Apple TV 4k box is of course handling both video and audio. But in this case it is able to drive wireless AirPlay speakers AND have the video and audio synchronized (lip-sync). So there actually is NO delay.
This could mean, that TV's that are Apple AirPlay2 compatible, might give me the solution. So far, I have found a lot of
there are a lot of TV’s which are AirPlay2 compatible. But until now I only found models able to stream content from iPhone/iPad to the TV. So not to the other side; stream audio from the TV to AirPlay speakers.
This made me think of creating the following setup (see picture below).
Question
So this is what I am looking for; which TV is capable to function as an Apple TV box / capable of connecting to AirPlay speakers for sound output?
In the meantime, I found more information for this use case. I learned that the issue of wireless audio from a TV/video source to wireless speakers, does not exist between the 'Apple TV 4K' box and AirPlay compatible speakers.
The Apple TV 4k box is of course handling both video and audio. But in this case it is able to drive wireless AirPlay speakers AND have the video and audio synchronized (lip-sync). So there actually is NO delay.
This could mean, that TV's that are Apple AirPlay2 compatible, might give me the solution. So far, I have found a lot of
there are a lot of TV’s which are AirPlay2 compatible. But until now I only found models able to stream content from iPhone/iPad to the TV. So not to the other side; stream audio from the TV to AirPlay speakers.
This made me think of creating the following setup (see picture below).
- TV with AirPlay2 compatibility
- Speakers with integrated LinkPlay A98 module
Question
So this is what I am looking for; which TV is capable to function as an Apple TV box / capable of connecting to AirPlay speakers for sound output?
My recommendation was clear I thought : most if not all wireless systems tend to have a builtin delay (by design and technology) which you obviously don't want so you answered your own question 🙂 There seems to be no free lunch with wireless systems so redefining priorities of parameters "convenience" and "delay" is necessary. Oversimplifying matters: "do I want best quality without delay or do I wish wireless convenience (is it really?) with delay?". Some would say that is ++ against --.
Unless the device in between is able to delay video or sync both audio and video there is no easy solution besides the analog solution and/or wired digital solutions.
Unless the device in between is able to delay video or sync both audio and video there is no easy solution besides the analog solution and/or wired digital solutions.
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Apple won't produce TVs anytime soon so the Apple TV box is your best bet probably as it performs exactly the way you desire. You'll be caught in the Apple ecosystem as a side effect. I sure would not want to rely on Airplay 2 on a non Apple device as it likely (assumption) won't have high priority on the feature/bug/update list.
I had my share of wireless experiments and after the next auto firmware update things sometimes were not so convenient anymore 🙂 The Jobs guy himself would say "a bag of hurt".
I had my share of wireless experiments and after the next auto firmware update things sometimes were not so convenient anymore 🙂 The Jobs guy himself would say "a bag of hurt".
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Apple does license AirPlay, and many TV manufacturers have already implemented AirPlay2.
The issue is that AirPlay2 implementations exist in two versions:
a) streaming iPhone/iPad content to the TV.
b) streaming audio from a TV to AirPlay speakers.
I am looking for televisions with b).
The issue is that AirPlay2 implementations exist in two versions:
a) streaming iPhone/iPad content to the TV.
b) streaming audio from a TV to AirPlay speakers.
I am looking for televisions with b).