Hi,
I just came across this tweeter. What caught my eye was a Fs of 425Hz!!! Looking at the frequency response, I noticed, the freq response is pretty much flat until 500Hz.
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d3004-602010.pdf
I was wondering what your opinion would be about running this speaker crossed really low, say about 700Hz.
There are other tweeters with these specifications
TW030WA05 to 08
I would like to see you opinions on how you think these class of tweeters will perform if used to run with a crossover frequency of 700Hz.
Oon
I just came across this tweeter. What caught my eye was a Fs of 425Hz!!! Looking at the frequency response, I noticed, the freq response is pretty much flat until 500Hz.
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d3004-602010.pdf
I was wondering what your opinion would be about running this speaker crossed really low, say about 700Hz.
There are other tweeters with these specifications
TW030WA05 to 08
I would like to see you opinions on how you think these class of tweeters will perform if used to run with a crossover frequency of 700Hz.
Oon
Hi,
1" tweeters generally won't go below a ~ 1.5KHz x/o point without
serious excursion capability issues, and not many will go that low
(independent of Fs) without serious distortion issues, some do.
The scan-speak rolls off below 2KHz, it not flat to 500Hz.
The highish Qts levels off the roll-off around Fs.
rgds, sreten.
1" tweeters generally won't go below a ~ 1.5KHz x/o point without
serious excursion capability issues, and not many will go that low
(independent of Fs) without serious distortion issues, some do.
The scan-speak rolls off below 2KHz, it not flat to 500Hz.
The highish Qts levels off the roll-off around Fs.
rgds, sreten.
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I concur with Sreten's comments. No circa 1" or 1-1/8" dome tweeter has enough volume displacement (Sd*Xmax) to cross over below 1kHz. As he mentions, even with a crossover point of 1.5kHz some will sound strained.
The solution (that I use at least) is to look for a small "fullrange" driver and use that as a tweeter. There are a select few with a diameter around 2 inches or so that can be crossed over at 750Hz but still have enough high frequency extension to work as a "tweeter". I have used the Tang Band W2-800SL like this in an MTM (using it now in fact) and it's great. The biggest challenge is finding one with both high end extension and high enough sensitivity. Keep in mind that you will need to construct a separate back chamber for this kind of driver.
The solution (that I use at least) is to look for a small "fullrange" driver and use that as a tweeter. There are a select few with a diameter around 2 inches or so that can be crossed over at 750Hz but still have enough high frequency extension to work as a "tweeter". I have used the Tang Band W2-800SL like this in an MTM (using it now in fact) and it's great. The biggest challenge is finding one with both high end extension and high enough sensitivity. Keep in mind that you will need to construct a separate back chamber for this kind of driver.
Looks like it doesn't settle down till 1100 Hz. I would think this value the absolute lowest I'd take this one...
--------------------------------------------------------------Rick..........
--------------------------------------------------------------Rick..........
If you go active, you can get around the wiggly impedance curve towards the bottom end of the useful range. You probably could use these down to Fs, or even below, but you'll get serious SPL limitations. I've a pair of 4" FR drivers that'll go to 40Hz sealed, but only just go loud enough for desktop listening.
So, compromise. If you'll only ever use them at your desk, you might be fine. Forget the occasional party, though - they'll never survive.
Chris
So, compromise. If you'll only ever use them at your desk, you might be fine. Forget the occasional party, though - they'll never survive.
Chris
Hi, And the point of the post ? I can't see any, rgds, sreten.
Clearly not a tweeter you'd want to x/o much below 2KHz, with 0.25mm Xmax.
Clearly not a tweeter you'd want to x/o much below 2KHz, with 0.25mm Xmax.
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Actually I have used the markaudio Alpair 6. But I wanted to try something different. 😉
Oon
Dear Sreten,
I think based on the frequency response curve by djk, it will go down to 700 Hz at -1 or 2 dB. As a normally full range guy, I would say it is still called flat....
However, I do agree with your thoughts on the xmax. I have tried crossing a tangband over at 1 KHz which has a fs of 700Hz and it sounds great. I find playing your mids with a tweeter sounds different from your woofer. Has a very airy quality about it.
I just want to push the envelope...
Oon
I think based on the frequency response curve by djk, it will go down to 700 Hz at -1 or 2 dB. As a normally full range guy, I would say it is still called flat....
However, I do agree with your thoughts on the xmax. I have tried crossing a tangband over at 1 KHz which has a fs of 700Hz and it sounds great. I find playing your mids with a tweeter sounds different from your woofer. Has a very airy quality about it.
I just want to push the envelope...
Oon
Hi,
I think I didn't make myself clear, why I posed this question. I am actually more of a full range guy and I have owned quite a few full range drivers from 2"to 15".
If you are a full range guy (allright so maybe a FAST), what you really want is a light cone and a powerful motor. In many ways, that is what a tweeter is. So now the question, I am trying to answer is, if you push the tweeter low, and if the tweeter is designed so it can handle it, can you make the mids sound better than a full range. For that to work, you should try and avoid the Fs, which in most tweeters happen at 1KHz. But off the late there has been tweeters that have Fs of 400Hz, Which could mean, we can now cross it lower than what was previously possible. If I get one that is really cheap, I could even make a line array....
I have been reveiwing a few drivers lately. The wavecor looks really interesting. It is 30mm driver with a xmax of +/- 0.4mm, And pretty much flat all the way to 500Hz. Most tweeters would only go 1KHz and a xmax of +/-0.2mm. At about $70, it could be worth a fun try... I get it that it won't go loud, but say, if you have 4pcs.....
http://solen.ca/products/speakers/home-speakers/tweeters/tw030wa08/
DJK, thanks for the tip on the SB acoustics, heck of a lot cheaper...
Sreten, thanks for the heads up on the xmax, shall continue to look for tweeters with larger xmax...
Oon
I think I didn't make myself clear, why I posed this question. I am actually more of a full range guy and I have owned quite a few full range drivers from 2"to 15".
If you are a full range guy (allright so maybe a FAST), what you really want is a light cone and a powerful motor. In many ways, that is what a tweeter is. So now the question, I am trying to answer is, if you push the tweeter low, and if the tweeter is designed so it can handle it, can you make the mids sound better than a full range. For that to work, you should try and avoid the Fs, which in most tweeters happen at 1KHz. But off the late there has been tweeters that have Fs of 400Hz, Which could mean, we can now cross it lower than what was previously possible. If I get one that is really cheap, I could even make a line array....
I have been reveiwing a few drivers lately. The wavecor looks really interesting. It is 30mm driver with a xmax of +/- 0.4mm, And pretty much flat all the way to 500Hz. Most tweeters would only go 1KHz and a xmax of +/-0.2mm. At about $70, it could be worth a fun try... I get it that it won't go loud, but say, if you have 4pcs.....
http://solen.ca/products/speakers/home-speakers/tweeters/tw030wa08/
DJK, thanks for the tip on the SB acoustics, heck of a lot cheaper...
Sreten, thanks for the heads up on the xmax, shall continue to look for tweeters with larger xmax...
Oon
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Sorry, forgot to put up the link...
http://solen.ca/products/speakers/home-speakers/tweeters/tw030wa08/
http://solen.ca/products/speakers/home-speakers/tweeters/tw030wa08/
Oon, I have been looking for similar tweeters, and a few stand out.
Although experience has shown that SEAS’ T29MF001_e0047 Magnum 29mm hard dome can be crossed over at 1450Hz (12dB slope with f0 impedance compensation network), the 8cm Sd and ±0.7mm Xmax suggests that it could be taken lower.
Wavecore’s TW030WA11_12 fabric soft-dome tweeter has a built-in waveguide which boosts the lower end above and beyond what would normally be expected from the 11.5cm Sd and ±0.4 Xmax.
Another possible approach would be to combine Dayton Audio's RS28 tweeter with the new SEOS-8” waveguide for dome tweeters <http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/seos-8-tweeter.html>.
hth, jonathan
Although experience has shown that SEAS’ T29MF001_e0047 Magnum 29mm hard dome can be crossed over at 1450Hz (12dB slope with f0 impedance compensation network), the 8cm Sd and ±0.7mm Xmax suggests that it could be taken lower.
Wavecore’s TW030WA11_12 fabric soft-dome tweeter has a built-in waveguide which boosts the lower end above and beyond what would normally be expected from the 11.5cm Sd and ±0.4 Xmax.
Another possible approach would be to combine Dayton Audio's RS28 tweeter with the new SEOS-8” waveguide for dome tweeters <http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/seos-8-tweeter.html>.
hth, jonathan
"thanks for the tip on the SB acoustics, heck of a lot cheaper..."
Also 3dB more efficient, 2.34dB more output based on Sd and x-max, smoother too (especially off-axis).
Also 3dB more efficient, 2.34dB more output based on Sd and x-max, smoother too (especially off-axis).
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The SEAS costs a little to much for my pocket but the wavecor with waveguide is just a few dollars more, so worth a consideration.
Another way to get around the xmax problem is to use 4 each in a channel to form a line array. The combined costs for the wavecor would be about 250 bucks a channel. Not too bad considering the costs of some exotic fullrange out there. 😱
I wonder if you are aware of any commercial speakers which had opted for this approach.😀
Oon
Another way to get around the xmax problem is to use 4 each in a channel to form a line array. The combined costs for the wavecor would be about 250 bucks a channel. Not too bad considering the costs of some exotic fullrange out there. 😱
I wonder if you are aware of any commercial speakers which had opted for this approach.😀
Oon
I take your point. I don't agree that the resonance is the limiting factor in and of itself. Also while distortion can be an indicator of other things, I don't think the distortion itself is the issue.
Dome tweeters just don't deal well with power. Their coils are small and low frequencies push them. A compression tweeter would do what you are looking for.
To tell you the truth, I am not a horny kind of guy 
It adds another variable to the whole equation.
Just to clarify why I am doing this. I think to just compare frequency response between different speakers, is just too shallow way of comparison.
I found a review in voicecoil magazine for the wavecor driver. What is really interesting is the comparison with SB acoustics before it. Although frequency response may appear similar, but take a look at the waterfall plot especially in the region around 1KHz. Shows just how little energy is stored in a tweeter...
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/tech-docs/es140ti-8_voicecoil-review.pdf
What I am saying is a woofer and tweeter produces voice differently and just because they both respond to 1kHz doesn't mean they will sound the same...
Oon
It adds another variable to the whole equation.
Just to clarify why I am doing this. I think to just compare frequency response between different speakers, is just too shallow way of comparison.
I found a review in voicecoil magazine for the wavecor driver. What is really interesting is the comparison with SB acoustics before it. Although frequency response may appear similar, but take a look at the waterfall plot especially in the region around 1KHz. Shows just how little energy is stored in a tweeter...
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/tech-docs/es140ti-8_voicecoil-review.pdf
What I am saying is a woofer and tweeter produces voice differently and just because they both respond to 1kHz doesn't mean they will sound the same...
Oon
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