I want to use three tweeters (same model), for example, three Scan D3004/6600, in a MMTTTMM design. Well, here're some imaginary patterns. Pick one.
There're too many possibilities I can't draw them all out. You could mount the tweeters unpside down, or switch 90 degree.
What, is this a very bad idea actually? Lay it on me, brutal truth.
There're too many possibilities I can't draw them all out. You could mount the tweeters unpside down, or switch 90 degree.
What, is this a very bad idea actually? Lay it on me, brutal truth.
Why would you want to use 3 drivers? I imagine comb filtering might be a problem, as you physically can't get the drivers close to each other on the higher frequencies to prevent lobing.
You could set them up as per the Sonab speaker from some years ago - it was a pretty successful design and plenty others have done similar 'ambient sound' systems
The only benefit from using multiple tweeters in a hifi application is that it lowers non-linear distortion. This is simply unnecessary if you are using a Scan 6600 because non-linear distortion is already extremely low.
Build a WWMTMWW instead.
Build a WWMTMWW instead.
Agreed, diffraction, lobing and comb filtering are all issues with a design like this, if all you care about is loud then it would shine in that area only.
Stick with one tweeter and keep drivers within 1/2 wavelength as a good rule of thumb.
HTH,
Javad
Stick with one tweeter and keep drivers within 1/2 wavelength as a good rule of thumb.
HTH,
Javad
Since this is diy.audio, one idea is as good as another, IMO, as long as it has a good theory behind it. Multiple drivers project well, and have a sound with authority.
This is the Tekton Pendragon:
Those are SB acoustics small tweeters. Possibly in a binomial 1-2-1 array, subject to a Philips patent that is quite clever. You can also do 1-3-3-1 to the same effect. The centre tweeter gets the full output, the top and bottom ones are wired in series. IMO, two tweeters wouldn't sound much different.
Again the Allison ic20 WMTTM idea:
Or a ribbon interpretation:
Now, TBH, above and below axis, there are combing issues, but IMO, no worse than all off-axis dispersion issues. What is good about multiple drivers, and why they are used in PA, is that loudness falls off less critically with distance. The drivers are less stressed too, due to 6dB gain. So yeah, have a go, IMO. 🙂
This is the Tekton Pendragon:
Those are SB acoustics small tweeters. Possibly in a binomial 1-2-1 array, subject to a Philips patent that is quite clever. You can also do 1-3-3-1 to the same effect. The centre tweeter gets the full output, the top and bottom ones are wired in series. IMO, two tweeters wouldn't sound much different.
Again the Allison ic20 WMTTM idea:
Or a ribbon interpretation:
Now, TBH, above and below axis, there are combing issues, but IMO, no worse than all off-axis dispersion issues. What is good about multiple drivers, and why they are used in PA, is that loudness falls off less critically with distance. The drivers are less stressed too, due to 6dB gain. So yeah, have a go, IMO. 🙂
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Use two tweeters back to back in an open baffle (a la Orion) and keep a pair as spares for when you blow them up.
The only reason to use multiple tweeters, is to increase power handling/output and reduce distortion.
Not really sure the distortion is a factor in a domestic environment, but you will lose the 'point source' imagery to some extent.
Not really sure the distortion is a factor in a domestic environment, but you will lose the 'point source' imagery to some extent.
"three Scan D3004/6600"
If you have $800 to burn, I suggest, instead, the use of two woofers in an isobaric configuration (https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204374170-Isobaric-Enclosure-Types) to halve the box volume.
Those tweeters have an efficiency of 91.5dB so they won't be the weak link. This, of course, on how closely you want to push your eardrums to the middle of your scone (Oz vernacular for skull).
If you have $800 to burn, I suggest, instead, the use of two woofers in an isobaric configuration (https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204374170-Isobaric-Enclosure-Types) to halve the box volume.
Those tweeters have an efficiency of 91.5dB so they won't be the weak link. This, of course, on how closely you want to push your eardrums to the middle of your scone (Oz vernacular for skull).
My buck two-fifty's worth: If you're set on using 3 tweeters, I suggest that they be arranged vertically to avoid comb-filtering in the horizontal plane, where our ears are more sensitive. If possible, trim the mounting flanges flat on appropriate sides to reduce the C-to-C distance. Your vertical coverage will now be much tighter than with one tweeter, so you may have to adjust the vertical tilt on your loudspeaker toward the listening position.
Another option would be to move the woofers together vertically, then position your tweeter array to the left or right of the woofers. The port (if you're venting) could fit beneath the tweeters, for a compact design.
Also, consider the impedance value of your tweeter selection. All 3 would have to be wired in the same manner, either series OR parallel, but not a mix, or they won't all perform at the same SPL level. Good luck with your project!
Another option would be to move the woofers together vertically, then position your tweeter array to the left or right of the woofers. The port (if you're venting) could fit beneath the tweeters, for a compact design.
Also, consider the impedance value of your tweeter selection. All 3 would have to be wired in the same manner, either series OR parallel, but not a mix, or they won't all perform at the same SPL level. Good luck with your project!
There are many speakers that use multiple tweeters, but they are usually line arrays where you have a long line of many Midrange side-by-side with an equally long line of tweeter.
Audio Artistry CBT36K Line Array Speaker Pair Kit
SLA-TLAH ? Custom Built Home Theater and PA Line Array Speakers | Ground Pound Audio
There are speakers that have Tweeter arrays or clusters. For example, the XTZ Cinema M6 -
XTZ Cinema M6 compact speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance
But, these do not all crossover at the same frequency. As the frequency goes up, more tweeters drop out, until at the highest frequency, only 1 tweeter is active.
Even the very high end Sony speakers use two tweeters, but they do so in a specific configuration and for a specific purpose -
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-ss-na5es-speaker-system#XQpOQ4IFvEfUd7Mx.97
http://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-ss-na2es-loudspeaker#M2wop5dD2GA8MdDS.97
But these are speakers with specific design goals, they are not simply using a lot of tweeters to use a lot of tweeter.
Even very large speakers, typically still only use a single 1" Dome Tweeter. The output of Tweeters is typically so much higher than other Mid/Low speakers, that it doesn't take a lot of them to get the job done.
Take these Canton Reference 1K speakers with TWO 12" bass drivers each -
https://www.canton.de/en/reference-k/reference-1-k
Despite having TWO 12" bass drivers it only has a -
Tweeter: 1 x 25 mm (1''), aluminum ceramic oxyd
So, now the question that needs be asked is - What is your design goal? What advantage do you hope to gain by using multiple Tweeters?
We can't say that you are wrong in your desire, but to assist you, it would help if we knew the purpose and the goal, and we could help you determine if your plan achieves your goal.
The real question isn't - Can you do it? Because you can do just about anything you can dream up. The real question is - Should you do it? We can help you make that decision on the assumption that we understand your purpose and goal.
Steve/bluewizard
Audio Artistry CBT36K Line Array Speaker Pair Kit
SLA-TLAH ? Custom Built Home Theater and PA Line Array Speakers | Ground Pound Audio
There are speakers that have Tweeter arrays or clusters. For example, the XTZ Cinema M6 -
XTZ Cinema M6 compact speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance
But, these do not all crossover at the same frequency. As the frequency goes up, more tweeters drop out, until at the highest frequency, only 1 tweeter is active.
Even the very high end Sony speakers use two tweeters, but they do so in a specific configuration and for a specific purpose -
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-ss-na5es-speaker-system#XQpOQ4IFvEfUd7Mx.97
http://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-ss-na2es-loudspeaker#M2wop5dD2GA8MdDS.97
But these are speakers with specific design goals, they are not simply using a lot of tweeters to use a lot of tweeter.
Even very large speakers, typically still only use a single 1" Dome Tweeter. The output of Tweeters is typically so much higher than other Mid/Low speakers, that it doesn't take a lot of them to get the job done.
Take these Canton Reference 1K speakers with TWO 12" bass drivers each -
https://www.canton.de/en/reference-k/reference-1-k
Despite having TWO 12" bass drivers it only has a -
Tweeter: 1 x 25 mm (1''), aluminum ceramic oxyd
So, now the question that needs be asked is - What is your design goal? What advantage do you hope to gain by using multiple Tweeters?
We can't say that you are wrong in your desire, but to assist you, it would help if we knew the purpose and the goal, and we could help you determine if your plan achieves your goal.
The real question isn't - Can you do it? Because you can do just about anything you can dream up. The real question is - Should you do it? We can help you make that decision on the assumption that we understand your purpose and goal.
Steve/bluewizard
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Sony "design goal": Use shiny spider eye array to seduce naive customer into $20 grand worth of domes and cones in a monkey coffin. Don't argue with nature!
Attachments
That's not all....
Reading a quote like this:
Doesn't really "ring" well for me... 😀Stereophile said:
Certainly not the first to try and "incorporate" musical instrument elements into speakers. Anyone like your music all spiced up? 😱
Things can be complicated.
Cant be bothered with crossovers so I just use full range drivers.
My main box has 2 Fane 12-250TC drivers.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
ME 180
Another interesting example. Coaxial mount divergent mini array.
That is very interesting. Can some one tell me how this avoids comb filtering? Would there be any benefit setting up three small full rangers like this?
MTOC started this thread, but hasn't bothered to respond to any of our comments.
We have established that some speakers do have multiple tweeters, but we have also established that very large speakers (2x12") get by with a single tweeter.
At this point, further discussion is pointless (though keep on if you wish) until the Original Poster gives us some sense of the purpose and design goals he has in mind.
Without that, this simply becomes a long list of speakers with multiple tweeters.
I think the Original Poster needs to explain his design, or design concept, in detail and tell us what he hopes to achieve, then instead of answering an essentially pointless question, rather we can help him determine what specifically will help him achieve his ultimate goal
If he is going to use THREE Tweeters, then I have to ask - Why Three? Why not Two; why not four? The number THREE actually complicates the design. Are you going to wire them in Series, which makes for a very high impedance? Are you going to wire them in Parallel, which makes for a very difficult low impedance? Three Tweeters or Three of any driver, does not lend itself well to a Series/Parallel arrangement; at least not if you want balanced output from the Tweeters.
And you certainly don't want to use Large Face Tweeters like the Scan. I would suggest either a truncated model, or a very small dome tweeter similar to those shown below -
Dayton Audio ND20FA-6 3/4" Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter
Dayton Audio ND16FA-6 5/8" Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter
You can put these small body tweeters into a very tight cluster which will help minimize Comb Filtering.
Alternately you can stack Truncated Tweeters into a very tight line, again minimizing Comb Filtering.
Peerless by Tymphany BC25SC55-04 1" Square Frame Tweeter
Dayton Audio DC28FT-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Truncated Tweeter
But tweeters with a large faceplate can NOT be combined into tight lines or tight clusters.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ator-d3004/6600-aircirc-tweeter-textile-dome/
Given that the SCAN D3004/6600 are $200 EACH, this might be a nice time to consider what your BUDGET is, and give that you plan to spend $1200 on Tweeters, information about the overall design becomes somewhat critical.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ator-d3004/6600-aircirc-tweeter-textile-dome/
You don't want to dump $7200 into drivers plus cabinets and finish, only to come out with a marginal speaker.
There are plenty of existing WMTMW designs out there to create a fantasy design with no foundation in reality. Now your design might be well conceived ...or not,... we simply can not know, and therefore can not help in any meaningful way.
If you simply want high output, then move to a Horn Tweeter. If this is some type of dispersion scheme, then we need to know what it is.
In all honesty, and with apologies, the fact that you would ask such a question without context implies that you are not ready to sink $10,000 into a pair of DIY self-designed speakers.
Anything can be done ...if... you know how to do it.
The Original Poster needs to respond.
Steve/bluewizard
We have established that some speakers do have multiple tweeters, but we have also established that very large speakers (2x12") get by with a single tweeter.
At this point, further discussion is pointless (though keep on if you wish) until the Original Poster gives us some sense of the purpose and design goals he has in mind.
Without that, this simply becomes a long list of speakers with multiple tweeters.
I think the Original Poster needs to explain his design, or design concept, in detail and tell us what he hopes to achieve, then instead of answering an essentially pointless question, rather we can help him determine what specifically will help him achieve his ultimate goal
If he is going to use THREE Tweeters, then I have to ask - Why Three? Why not Two; why not four? The number THREE actually complicates the design. Are you going to wire them in Series, which makes for a very high impedance? Are you going to wire them in Parallel, which makes for a very difficult low impedance? Three Tweeters or Three of any driver, does not lend itself well to a Series/Parallel arrangement; at least not if you want balanced output from the Tweeters.
And you certainly don't want to use Large Face Tweeters like the Scan. I would suggest either a truncated model, or a very small dome tweeter similar to those shown below -
Dayton Audio ND20FA-6 3/4" Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter
Dayton Audio ND16FA-6 5/8" Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter
You can put these small body tweeters into a very tight cluster which will help minimize Comb Filtering.
Alternately you can stack Truncated Tweeters into a very tight line, again minimizing Comb Filtering.
Peerless by Tymphany BC25SC55-04 1" Square Frame Tweeter
Dayton Audio DC28FT-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Truncated Tweeter
But tweeters with a large faceplate can NOT be combined into tight lines or tight clusters.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ator-d3004/6600-aircirc-tweeter-textile-dome/
Given that the SCAN D3004/6600 are $200 EACH, this might be a nice time to consider what your BUDGET is, and give that you plan to spend $1200 on Tweeters, information about the overall design becomes somewhat critical.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ator-d3004/6600-aircirc-tweeter-textile-dome/
You don't want to dump $7200 into drivers plus cabinets and finish, only to come out with a marginal speaker.
There are plenty of existing WMTMW designs out there to create a fantasy design with no foundation in reality. Now your design might be well conceived ...or not,... we simply can not know, and therefore can not help in any meaningful way.
If you simply want high output, then move to a Horn Tweeter. If this is some type of dispersion scheme, then we need to know what it is.
In all honesty, and with apologies, the fact that you would ask such a question without context implies that you are not ready to sink $10,000 into a pair of DIY self-designed speakers.
Anything can be done ...if... you know how to do it.
The Original Poster needs to respond.
Steve/bluewizard
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These would be a better choice due to the small face plate and rising response to combat the cancellation that will occur. But as Blue Wizard stated, we need to know why first.
For directivity matching, plus a little bit extra efficiency and power handling, the SEOS 8 waveguide could be considered.
For directivity matching, plus a little bit extra efficiency and power handling, the SEOS 8 waveguide could be considered.