Hello,
I was thinking to purchase a Lenco 75 or Thorens 160 as a new turntable, but I am also thinking, why not build a new turntable from scratch ?
1- My resources:
- I am a wood and metal worker. I have plenty of old machines, including a lathe and a mill. So, I should be able to make most of the parts.
- A friend of mine is electronician, so I might also get some help, if necessary.
Unfortunately, I am new in this areas, and I will need some help...
2- What I can do easily:
I would like to make something simple.
- I would purchase the tonearm (in the future, I might try to make one, but at least, in the first step, I will use a ready made one).
- I can make the plinth in wood .
- I can make the platter in aluminium with my lathe.
- I would like to have the motor individualised from the turntable with a belt drive, in order to minimise vibrations. I can make a heavy box for this motor and i can make the pulleys.
3- My questions:
- Which kind of motor would be best ? Any brand or reference which would be highly advised ?
- As for the speed controller, are there any ready made thing, or is it necessary to build it ?
- What about the central axis for the platter ? What would be a simple and efficient design ?
I apologize if my questions seem to be to simple. May be I did not really understand the complexity of such building. That's why I need your help...
Many thanks in advance.
I was thinking to purchase a Lenco 75 or Thorens 160 as a new turntable, but I am also thinking, why not build a new turntable from scratch ?
1- My resources:
- I am a wood and metal worker. I have plenty of old machines, including a lathe and a mill. So, I should be able to make most of the parts.
- A friend of mine is electronician, so I might also get some help, if necessary.
Unfortunately, I am new in this areas, and I will need some help...
2- What I can do easily:
I would like to make something simple.
- I would purchase the tonearm (in the future, I might try to make one, but at least, in the first step, I will use a ready made one).
- I can make the plinth in wood .
- I can make the platter in aluminium with my lathe.
- I would like to have the motor individualised from the turntable with a belt drive, in order to minimise vibrations. I can make a heavy box for this motor and i can make the pulleys.
3- My questions:
- Which kind of motor would be best ? Any brand or reference which would be highly advised ?
- As for the speed controller, are there any ready made thing, or is it necessary to build it ?
- What about the central axis for the platter ? What would be a simple and efficient design ?
I apologize if my questions seem to be to simple. May be I did not really understand the complexity of such building. That's why I need your help...
Many thanks in advance.
IMHO to start out, it would be easier to repair an old turntable, then find out what it's deficiencies are and make improvements. After you have a working arm & motor, you can customize the appearance with parts you make. My BIC940 looks extremely cheap; they went bankrupt very fast despite excellent performance. You could also possibly improve shock resistance. My AR turntable, the needle would bounce if I walked across the floor. I sold it. My BIC940 is superb against this problem.
What country are you in? In this country old electronic goods show up in charity resale shops like Salvation Army, Goodwill, St Vincent de Paul.
Problems with old turntables include bad electrolytic capacitors in the electronics ie motor drive, and bad rubber belts. Electrolytic capacitors, the consumer grade ones, are sealed with rubber and deteriorate running or sitting on the shelf.
Rubber belts can be made from flat stock from industrial supplies, plus some sanding of a mitred gluing surface, plus the glue. Cyanoacrylic is usual I believe.
My turntable, a 1979 BIC940, had a turned tonearm from the factory. I leveled the cartridge with washers. Perhaps you'll find something similar. With your eye for detail and experience you should be able to spot any cartridge alighnment problems. Getting alignment right has a lot to do with how the records sound.
All the turntables I've bought at the resale shop had the cheapest of spherical stylus cartridges. Buy something more upgrade like a Shure M97 before allowing a needle to touch any but the most wiped out of records. If you get a good elipical diamond stylus cartridge, inspect the needle with great magnification. I had some needles drop chunks of diamond off over the years. The shure M97 has been fine since 1979.
Have fun with the listening to LP's hobby. I have shelves of about 60 feet of them now they are $.75 or $.50 each. The classical ones usually sound good used, but the rock & roll ones are usually wiped out by cheapo record players. They often charge $1-5 for R&R LP's so I usually just buy CD's of those.
What country are you in? In this country old electronic goods show up in charity resale shops like Salvation Army, Goodwill, St Vincent de Paul.
Problems with old turntables include bad electrolytic capacitors in the electronics ie motor drive, and bad rubber belts. Electrolytic capacitors, the consumer grade ones, are sealed with rubber and deteriorate running or sitting on the shelf.
Rubber belts can be made from flat stock from industrial supplies, plus some sanding of a mitred gluing surface, plus the glue. Cyanoacrylic is usual I believe.
My turntable, a 1979 BIC940, had a turned tonearm from the factory. I leveled the cartridge with washers. Perhaps you'll find something similar. With your eye for detail and experience you should be able to spot any cartridge alighnment problems. Getting alignment right has a lot to do with how the records sound.
All the turntables I've bought at the resale shop had the cheapest of spherical stylus cartridges. Buy something more upgrade like a Shure M97 before allowing a needle to touch any but the most wiped out of records. If you get a good elipical diamond stylus cartridge, inspect the needle with great magnification. I had some needles drop chunks of diamond off over the years. The shure M97 has been fine since 1979.
Have fun with the listening to LP's hobby. I have shelves of about 60 feet of them now they are $.75 or $.50 each. The classical ones usually sound good used, but the rock & roll ones are usually wiped out by cheapo record players. They often charge $1-5 for R&R LP's so I usually just buy CD's of those.
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You are right. I could purchase a vintage Lenco 75 or Thorens 160 / 166, make a nice plinth and change the tonearm. This might be the most efficient solution and this is one of the options... We can find them in France at around 200 € (the price increased a lot those last years).
But I would like to pursue the possibility of building one from scratch, although there is a high probability that it will cost more than 200 € with a lesser quality at the end of the day... But that's for the fun...
But I would like to pursue the possibility of building one from scratch, although there is a high probability that it will cost more than 200 € with a lesser quality at the end of the day... But that's for the fun...
Hello,
the Linn Basik is nice to rebuild too, and if you like, you can easy grade up with LP12 parts, or Hercules Motor controller ...
the Linn Basik is nice to rebuild too, and if you like, you can easy grade up with LP12 parts, or Hercules Motor controller ...
Perhaps have a look at what this person did.
DIY Turntable - Hi-Fi Phono Record Player
Regards John L.
I would go for a Lenco L70\75\78 and refurbish it. There is a TON of possible upgrades you can give that table, to the point where its practicaly building one from (almost) scratch.
The truth is, with a Lenco L70\75\78, all you need to keep is the motor, the bearing, the platter and the idler wheele, everything else can be fabricated (and you can even get a new bearing if you really want).
check out my personal Lenco projects:
My first build: https://goo.gl/photos/6swCHtfnEtXnS5uFA
My second build: https://goo.gl/photos/5at6YyGUEah19m1Y7
My third build: https://goo.gl/photos/xBXACYe1kFnJeTUp6
MY fourth build: https://goo.gl/photos/E1KbJZmGWnBDHMk19
The truth is, with a Lenco L70\75\78, all you need to keep is the motor, the bearing, the platter and the idler wheele, everything else can be fabricated (and you can even get a new bearing if you really want).
check out my personal Lenco projects:
My first build: https://goo.gl/photos/6swCHtfnEtXnS5uFA
My second build: https://goo.gl/photos/5at6YyGUEah19m1Y7
My third build: https://goo.gl/photos/xBXACYe1kFnJeTUp6
MY fourth build: https://goo.gl/photos/E1KbJZmGWnBDHMk19
I made the platter bearing from a VHS video drum. Great bearings. High quality parts.
Had to modify it a tiny bit.
Had to modify it a tiny bit.
Many thanks for all the advices! Tankpopper, I like your fourth build, where you put almost everything out...
Kentaro, indeed in my fourth build I implemented everything I learned in the first few builds, and went "all out".
Glad to help.
Glad to help.
Tankpopper,
How was the result, after the "all out", compared with the previous versions ? Did you get an improvement ?
How was the result, after the "all out", compared with the previous versions ? Did you get an improvement ?
mk1 was very basic, it sounded only a little better than a stock lenco.
Mk2 sounded phenomenal. endless dynamics and incredibaly musical
mk3 sounded much more open, airy and detailed, but didnt have the musicality of mk2
MK4 was the best so far. Incredibly dynamic, musical, very clear and detailed.
2 friends of mine had a try with both my mk2 and my mk3, and they both kept the mk2 in the end, saying it was more fun to listen to.
Mk2 sounded phenomenal. endless dynamics and incredibaly musical
mk3 sounded much more open, airy and detailed, but didnt have the musicality of mk2
MK4 was the best so far. Incredibly dynamic, musical, very clear and detailed.
2 friends of mine had a try with both my mk2 and my mk3, and they both kept the mk2 in the end, saying it was more fun to listen to.
So, it means that this is very sensitive... Do you think the very good result of MK4 is due to the choice of bamboo wood ?
Did you think about using no metal plates at all and fix the motor directly in wood plates ?
An other question: What about the "arm" of the idler ? originally, it was more or less "fixed" by a piece of white plastic. After the modifications, the arm is free ?
Did you think about using no metal plates at all and fix the motor directly in wood plates ?
An other question: What about the "arm" of the idler ? originally, it was more or less "fixed" by a piece of white plastic. After the modifications, the arm is free ?
Yes, it is the metarial you choose for the plinth will have a big impact on the result.
MK2 was Birch plywood, MK3 was MDF, MK4 was Bamboo. Weight is also an issue, and it played a role especialy in MK2 where i coverd the entire top and bottom of the TT with 3mm stainless steel.
I have not tried to fix things directly to the Plinth, and off the top of my hat im not sure its really possible.. but maybe i should look into it.
as for the idler arm.. its connected exactly the same, but the mechanism that moves it is different.
MK2 was Birch plywood, MK3 was MDF, MK4 was Bamboo. Weight is also an issue, and it played a role especialy in MK2 where i coverd the entire top and bottom of the TT with 3mm stainless steel.
I have not tried to fix things directly to the Plinth, and off the top of my hat im not sure its really possible.. but maybe i should look into it.
as for the idler arm.. its connected exactly the same, but the mechanism that moves it is different.
Thank you very much for the link! This article is incredibly interesting... It seems so easy to make a magnetic bearing...
Takpopper, what you did looks similar to the PTP system. Are there any difference ?
Thinking out of the box, I was thinking to go a little further... Put the motor and idler on an independant and very heavy pod.
In this case, we can move the pod slightly, in order to move the idler under the platter, and therefore, find the right speed.
In this case, we do not need any more the idler "arm" and its mechanism.
What do you think ? Am I going to far ?
Thinking out of the box, I was thinking to go a little further... Put the motor and idler on an independant and very heavy pod.
In this case, we can move the pod slightly, in order to move the idler under the platter, and therefore, find the right speed.
In this case, we do not need any more the idler "arm" and its mechanism.
What do you think ? Am I going to far ?
My design was heavily influenced by the PTP, no doubt.
As for moving the motor and idler out.. im with you, but only half way. the speed Is determined not by the positing of the idler against the platter alone, but rather by the position of the idler against the cone of the motor. There for, you cant lock the idler in postion in regards to the motor.
I will tell you this, making sub chassie for the motor alone might very well be possible - but it wont be very simple. the motor sits very close to the spindle and disconencting the motor from the main chassie might (again, might) effect the support the platter gets.
later i will open SolidWorks and see whats what, mabe this could be figured out quickly! but in any scenario, i dont think we can remove the idler arm altogether.
As for moving the motor and idler out.. im with you, but only half way. the speed Is determined not by the positing of the idler against the platter alone, but rather by the position of the idler against the cone of the motor. There for, you cant lock the idler in postion in regards to the motor.
I will tell you this, making sub chassie for the motor alone might very well be possible - but it wont be very simple. the motor sits very close to the spindle and disconencting the motor from the main chassie might (again, might) effect the support the platter gets.
later i will open SolidWorks and see whats what, mabe this could be figured out quickly! but in any scenario, i dont think we can remove the idler arm altogether.
Thanks for your reply. You are right, there is not a lot of space available between the bearing and the motor. Therefore, the plinth might be weak at that point, just around the bearing. I changed the design, and "enveloped" the motor pod by the plinth. This should give move strength to the main plinth.
As for the idler arm, I was thinking on a vernier based system, with an ajusting knob outisde:
As for the idler arm, I was thinking on a vernier based system, with an ajusting knob outisde:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
ok, this makes more sense, but still not there.
First of all, the idler armo place an importent role - its a damper. im not sure why you a so kin on getting rid of it.
Second, the position of the motor was not decided upon by chance - the idler touches the plater on the farthest point possible from where the tonearm touches the record. This also plays an important role in eliminating noise.
First of all, the idler armo place an importent role - its a damper. im not sure why you a so kin on getting rid of it.
Second, the position of the motor was not decided upon by chance - the idler touches the plater on the farthest point possible from where the tonearm touches the record. This also plays an important role in eliminating noise.
ok, I understand, so the motor pod should be place on a diagonal, on the upper corner.
Concerning the idler arm, I am not trying to get rid of it, but I would like to fix it on the moving pod instead of the main plinth and make a simple but fine adjustment mecanism.
I will think a little more...
Concerning the idler arm, I am not trying to get rid of it, but I would like to fix it on the moving pod instead of the main plinth and make a simple but fine adjustment mecanism.
I will think a little more...
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