Hello,
I'm new here on diyaudio. I recently buy my first better headphones Sennheiser HD 598. I use it to listen music and movies on my PC or TV. But for music it is not loud enough. I'm not an audiophile but I enjoy good quality audio. My music is 192kbps or better so the quality is ok. So I need a amplifier. I found some amplifiers online (low budget) and I like to hear some opinions:
- SMSL Sapii PRO TPA6120A2 BIG Power High Fidelity Stereo Headphone Amplifier | eBay
- Pro-Ject Head Box S schwarz Kopfhörerverstärker | NEU | eBay
- Kopfhörerverstärker Dynavox CSM-112, Schwarz, Kopfhörer Verstärker, Amp | eBay
I know this is nothing special but still what could be ok? I noticed that the SMSL SapII 2 Pro uses some same and better OPAMPS than in the Fiio E09k. On the SMSL I can improve quality by putting better capacitors. It is also an option that I build my own amplifier but I don't know where to start (what kind of amplifier do I build and that is OK and tested). My budget is in the range of 120€ (approx. 140USD).
Thank you for all the help.
Best regards, Žiga
I'm new here on diyaudio. I recently buy my first better headphones Sennheiser HD 598. I use it to listen music and movies on my PC or TV. But for music it is not loud enough. I'm not an audiophile but I enjoy good quality audio. My music is 192kbps or better so the quality is ok. So I need a amplifier. I found some amplifiers online (low budget) and I like to hear some opinions:
- SMSL Sapii PRO TPA6120A2 BIG Power High Fidelity Stereo Headphone Amplifier | eBay
- Pro-Ject Head Box S schwarz Kopfhörerverstärker | NEU | eBay
- Kopfhörerverstärker Dynavox CSM-112, Schwarz, Kopfhörer Verstärker, Amp | eBay
I know this is nothing special but still what could be ok? I noticed that the SMSL SapII 2 Pro uses some same and better OPAMPS than in the Fiio E09k. On the SMSL I can improve quality by putting better capacitors. It is also an option that I build my own amplifier but I don't know where to start (what kind of amplifier do I build and that is OK and tested). My budget is in the range of 120€ (approx. 140USD).
Thank you for all the help.
Best regards, Žiga
The spreadsheet below shows what your headphone amp should be able to do to hit a 120dB musical peak. Your HD598's are listed as 50 ohm and 112dB/volt. From the spreadsheet you will need an amp that can output at least 2.5Vrms at 50mA. The 2.5Vrms isn't hard, but the 50mA is more than most single op-amps can do. That rules out most single chip CMOY's.
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So that rules out all those three amplifiers...
Is here on the diyaudio forum any suitable schematics that I can use to build my amplifier? Something in approx. my budged area? I was looking at some amplifiers but I don't really know which would be the best choice.
My source is motherboard from my PC: Gigabyte H81M-Hd3 with audio codec Realtek ALC892.
Is here on the diyaudio forum any suitable schematics that I can use to build my amplifier? Something in approx. my budged area? I was looking at some amplifiers but I don't really know which would be the best choice.
My source is motherboard from my PC: Gigabyte H81M-Hd3 with audio codec Realtek ALC892.
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http://www.ti.com/general/docs/lit/getliterature.tsp?genericPartNumber=lme49600&fileType=pdf
I built a circuit somewhat similar to figure 1 in the datasheet. You can scale the voltage gain with the feedback resistors. The circuit works fine off of 12-30 volts (+/-6 to +/- 15 volts). Mine runs off 15 volts, but you could go higher. I'd recommend a voltage gain of 2.5 for your application, for a theoretical max spl of 120 dB with 1 volt RMS input.
I believe that the "Wire" thread discusses variants of this circuit. The 49600 is very good and makes for a simple, high performance circuit. Most popular audio op amps should work without Miller compensation, because the 49600 has a very wide bandwidth. Mine sounds great with a humble 5532 front end.
I built a circuit somewhat similar to figure 1 in the datasheet. You can scale the voltage gain with the feedback resistors. The circuit works fine off of 12-30 volts (+/-6 to +/- 15 volts). Mine runs off 15 volts, but you could go higher. I'd recommend a voltage gain of 2.5 for your application, for a theoretical max spl of 120 dB with 1 volt RMS input.
I believe that the "Wire" thread discusses variants of this circuit. The 49600 is very good and makes for a simple, high performance circuit. Most popular audio op amps should work without Miller compensation, because the 49600 has a very wide bandwidth. Mine sounds great with a humble 5532 front end.
No, at least two of them are probably OK. The TPA6120 chip it rated at 700mA. It should easily be able to power your headphones if that amplifer has the chip properly heatsinked. The TPA6120 is not a typical op-amp of the kind used in CMOY headphone amps. It is a special purpose headphone amplifier chip with current buffers built in. For the third amp I can't read the words but I see "1000mW" listed. If that is the output power, you only need (0.05A)^2 * 50R = 125mW.
The best thing to do on any commercial amp, if the specifications are not clearly listed, is send them an email and just ask if the amp can swing up to 2.5Vrms into a 50 ohm headphone load (per channel), and at what THD+N (distortion and noise) numbers.
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By the looks of the figure 1 in the datasheet it seems very small and simple circuit build. I don't know that's better, to buy or build my own amplifier. I don't want to be disappointing. Is it better to build an amplifier with op amps or tube? I don't want to get too expensive on my project. Is there an option to build some good quality tube amplifier suitable for my headphones and in my budget (approx. 150USD or so)? Is there necessary to have an DAC? A tube amplifier would be a very nice project...
OK I will ask them for these info. And than we will see. The second link is probably not enough power 330mW for 30ohm and 60mW for 300ohm. The first one is very interesting and for that low price, but i'm a little in doubt because it's a Chinese brand...
i listen to the HD-595 phones, which are very similar.
i currently (and very happily) use dick marsh's discrete headphone preamp discussed here.
it was designed for driving low impedance headphones and has very low distortion while doing so.
although you need the Linear Audio article article to really understand the design, the basic schematic can be found in the blowtorch thread (sorry, i don't know the link).
mlloyd1
i currently (and very happily) use dick marsh's discrete headphone preamp discussed here.
it was designed for driving low impedance headphones and has very low distortion while doing so.
although you need the Linear Audio article article to really understand the design, the basic schematic can be found in the blowtorch thread (sorry, i don't know the link).
mlloyd1
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I've seen some headphone amps that looked good for less than 200 USD. I have not verified if they are as good as they look on paper.
The datasheet circuit will work as-is. You can configure it for different applications. But a headphone amplifier will require a very quiet power supply to perform its best. I used LC filters and elaborate local bypassing in my amplifier. I also used Vishay-Dale CMF55 metal film resistors in the audio path, which may be overkill. But my amplifier is simple, super clean and clear, and dead quiet even with super efficient headphones.
DAC or no DAC depends on your application. I took a USB DAC board out of a Sony "5.1" surround receiver and put it in the same case as my headphone amplifier. There are many DAC solutions.
Tubes are OK too, but will most likely not be a simple or economical solution for you.
No tube headphone amplifier will ever be as precise and low distortion as that datasheet circuit.
No tube headphone amplifier will ever be as precise and low distortion as that datasheet circuit.
I cannot shake the bad feeling for buying Chinese aplications. I don't trust them. This 49600 seems very good and interesting. But the figure 1 is not finished schematics for amplifier? I never designed something like that so I will need some help please. I'm even thinking for adding some DAC. That I will have clear input from my PC. Any suggestions?
Once I had a PC program for designing circuits. Do anyone have such a program (reliable)?
I also own HD598's and use OPC's wire headphone amp. I added a bit of gain because of some low output sources. many have been built with great results and very happy builders.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/head...igh-performance-headphone-amplifier-pcbs.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/head...igh-performance-headphone-amplifier-pcbs.html
I would add local bypassing for the chips and an RF filter on the input. Keep the 0.1 uF bypass caps and add 10-50 uF caps in parallel.
I'm going to order some "os-con" capacitors to use for local chip bypass. They look very promising, with their very high resonance. Tantalum capacitors have enjoyed popularity in this application but I have had bad experiences with them.
You will want a volume control too.
Of course you will need a power supply. It will have to be a very quiet power supply.
Look at embedded solutions for DAC, or do like me and lift one from a digital receiver.
I agree with you about the Chinese offerings. I don't understand how they can do it so cheap. I couldn't do it that cheap, even discounting labor. I've been tempted to take a chance and see what it's all about.
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Ok I will draw a schematics and post it here. Then we will se if I'm on the right track. 🙂
I have just one question. When I'm listening my Sennheisers on PC the sound is ok but when I go pass 70% of the PC volume the lower end of the frequency spectrum (mostly bass) get distortion... Is this a problem with my headphones? They are few days old. Today I have tested them on the older Yamaha amplifier and it was the same. I took some older headphones and even cheaper in-ear headphones, and no problem with them on higher volume. 😕
Thank you for all the answers.
I have just one question. When I'm listening my Sennheisers on PC the sound is ok but when I go pass 70% of the PC volume the lower end of the frequency spectrum (mostly bass) get distortion... Is this a problem with my headphones? They are few days old. Today I have tested them on the older Yamaha amplifier and it was the same. I took some older headphones and even cheaper in-ear headphones, and no problem with them on higher volume. 😕
Thank you for all the answers.
The Sennheisers are probably a poor choice for both vintage amplifiers and computer use. Older hi fi equipment is usually configured to drive 600 ohm cans. Furthermore, they employ a series resistor that can greatly affect frequency response of headphones - especially low impedance headphones. Finally, they lack the sensitivity required for use with low output devices like computers and modern portable devices. The big headphone jack should serve as a tip off to that. 😉
Just from reading your user description, I am getting the idea that these are low efficiency headphones with a less than even impedance vs frequency curve. Headphones like these typically work best with a higher output power, low impedance source - like a modern headphone amp. 🙂 The less than ideal impedance curve will not affect frequency response nearly as much when driven with a lower impedance source - it might hardly affect the frequency response at all.
So in summary, you will probably get better performance out of your Sennheisers with the right headphone amp. It could also be the case that you will end up not liking your headphones even after jumping through every last hoop. 😡 (I hope you end up liking them.)
Maybe you did not realize that these headphones, while they might be very good, are not that versatile. When choosing headphones to use with a computer sound card or portable device, the most important specification by far is efficiency. And don't be fooled by specification format either; dB per milliwatt is not the same as dB per volt. 100 dB per mW is way more efficient than 100 dB per volt! 100 dB/mW is plenty efficient for portable use (although higher is always better, all things being equal); 100 dB/V is headphone amp territory for 32 ohm cans.
Just from reading your user description, I am getting the idea that these are low efficiency headphones with a less than even impedance vs frequency curve. Headphones like these typically work best with a higher output power, low impedance source - like a modern headphone amp. 🙂 The less than ideal impedance curve will not affect frequency response nearly as much when driven with a lower impedance source - it might hardly affect the frequency response at all.
So in summary, you will probably get better performance out of your Sennheisers with the right headphone amp. It could also be the case that you will end up not liking your headphones even after jumping through every last hoop. 😡 (I hope you end up liking them.)
Maybe you did not realize that these headphones, while they might be very good, are not that versatile. When choosing headphones to use with a computer sound card or portable device, the most important specification by far is efficiency. And don't be fooled by specification format either; dB per milliwatt is not the same as dB per volt. 100 dB per mW is way more efficient than 100 dB per volt! 100 dB/mW is plenty efficient for portable use (although higher is always better, all things being equal); 100 dB/V is headphone amp territory for 32 ohm cans.
Complicated... I very much like the sound of my Sennheisers. I hope it can be solved with DAC and amplifier. Is this 49600 chip ok for my Sennheiser headphones? Somehow I will have to modifi this amp to be the best option for my headphones. Now I have the program of National Instruments Multisim where I can design and test the amplifier. I need to do it properly, because I don't want to end up with disappointment. 😕
Today I have tested a few headphones:
Source: Gigabyte H81M-HD3 with Realtek ALC892 through Creative Inspire T6100.
Headphones:
- Sony MDR-XD150 (32ohm/1kHz, 12-22,000 Hz, 100 dB/mW, Dynamic and closed type),
- Sony MDR-CD470 (40ohm/1kHz, 10-25,000 Hz, 104 dB/mW, Dynamic and closed type),
- Sony MDR-SA1000 (70ohm, 8-80,000 Hz, 100 dB/mW, Dynamic and open type),
- Sennheiser HD 598 (50ohm, 12-38,500 Hz, 112 dB/1kHz/1Vrms, THD <0,1%(1kHz/100dB SPL, Dynamic and open type).
But the Sennheiser were the loudest, best sounded (even in the low freq. spectrum). So I guess that they are not faulty... I have to give them good source and right amplifier (I hope that this is the answer for my problem).
Today I have tested a few headphones:
Source: Gigabyte H81M-HD3 with Realtek ALC892 through Creative Inspire T6100.
Headphones:
- Sony MDR-XD150 (32ohm/1kHz, 12-22,000 Hz, 100 dB/mW, Dynamic and closed type),
- Sony MDR-CD470 (40ohm/1kHz, 10-25,000 Hz, 104 dB/mW, Dynamic and closed type),
- Sony MDR-SA1000 (70ohm, 8-80,000 Hz, 100 dB/mW, Dynamic and open type),
- Sennheiser HD 598 (50ohm, 12-38,500 Hz, 112 dB/1kHz/1Vrms, THD <0,1%(1kHz/100dB SPL, Dynamic and open type).
But the Sennheiser were the loudest, best sounded (even in the low freq. spectrum). So I guess that they are not faulty... I have to give them good source and right amplifier (I hope that this is the answer for my problem).
Attachments
Hi,
I use Pellerano's Zen style amplifier with my HD-595. I also have Chu Moy with OPA2134 and an op amp virtual ground. My Chu Moy needed a coupling cap because of the low impedance of the cans. The biggest flaw of the Chu Moy is that it is too bright (at least with these cans). Zen sounds better: more body, better control of the low end. None of them runs out of steam. Zen need lots of capacitance in the power supply as these headphones are very efficient.
Greg
I use Pellerano's Zen style amplifier with my HD-595. I also have Chu Moy with OPA2134 and an op amp virtual ground. My Chu Moy needed a coupling cap because of the low impedance of the cans. The biggest flaw of the Chu Moy is that it is too bright (at least with these cans). Zen sounds better: more body, better control of the low end. None of them runs out of steam. Zen need lots of capacitance in the power supply as these headphones are very efficient.
Greg
It sounds very promising. Is this link that Zen amplifier?
The Zen Headphone Amplifier | HeadWize
Now I have plenty of options. But which one to build? Now I'm going to try and draw the schematics with 49600... I'm also thinking to build some DAC for connecting to my PC (usb or optical cable).
Edit: It seems that I don't have the correct program for this project.
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A 49600 based amplifier with a 20-30 volt supply will be more than adequate to drive these cans.
The Zen amplifier is completely different. It is a buffer with voltage gain of 1. It employs no global feedback. It is an optimization of a circuit that has been very popular with DIYers because it is simple to build and easy to make work. It is basically the ultimate source follower buffer. And it will almost certainly do a better job of driving your headphones, although modest voltage gain would help your cause.
So it's up to you, what you're comfortable with. If you have basic troubleshooting skills, you should be able to build either amplifier.
With efficiency of 112 dB/V and 50 ohm nominal, the headphones draw 20 mW for 112 dB. I shoot for 120 dB max with a headphone amp, but that's up to you.
These headphones would be rated around 99 dB/mW, which is moderately efficient. I did the calculation in my head 😀 so it's approximate.
The Zen amplifier is completely different. It is a buffer with voltage gain of 1. It employs no global feedback. It is an optimization of a circuit that has been very popular with DIYers because it is simple to build and easy to make work. It is basically the ultimate source follower buffer. And it will almost certainly do a better job of driving your headphones, although modest voltage gain would help your cause.
So it's up to you, what you're comfortable with. If you have basic troubleshooting skills, you should be able to build either amplifier.
With efficiency of 112 dB/V and 50 ohm nominal, the headphones draw 20 mW for 112 dB. I shoot for 120 dB max with a headphone amp, but that's up to you.
These headphones would be rated around 99 dB/mW, which is moderately efficient. I did the calculation in my head 😀 so it's approximate.
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