Hi everyone !
I am planning to build a high output three way speaker using fullrange drivers for the midrange. Why not just midrange drivers ? Two things. From personal experience I have noticed that many fullrange drivers have cleaner, less distorted mids than a lot of said-to-be "good" mid drivers at the same or even at a lower price tag. Second thing, I will only be using first order crossovers for this project, so the mid drivers will have to reproduce a non-negligible part of the high frequency content of the signal, hence the need for the wide dispersion characteristics that come with good fullrange drivers.
So, what are your suggestions ? I am not able to listen to enough drivers to find the most appropriate one all by myself, that's why I'm asking.
Thanks in advance
I am planning to build a high output three way speaker using fullrange drivers for the midrange. Why not just midrange drivers ? Two things. From personal experience I have noticed that many fullrange drivers have cleaner, less distorted mids than a lot of said-to-be "good" mid drivers at the same or even at a lower price tag. Second thing, I will only be using first order crossovers for this project, so the mid drivers will have to reproduce a non-negligible part of the high frequency content of the signal, hence the need for the wide dispersion characteristics that come with good fullrange drivers.
So, what are your suggestions ? I am not able to listen to enough drivers to find the most appropriate one all by myself, that's why I'm asking.
Thanks in advance
You can check out the Scanspeak 10F/8424G or 10F/4424G - these are actually labeled as midrange drivers by the manufacturer, but have been used in successful WAW (Wide-band Assisted by Woofer) projects as a mid-tweeter.
Good driver, but the price has now become quite high...
Good driver, but the price has now become quite high...
No affiliation…I often end up on Joe Crowe’s site when I’m brainstorming ideas. He’s come up with a lot of cool stuff.
I’m not planning a build like this, but noticed this recently.
https://josephcrowe.com/products/speaker-no-1630-plans
I’m sure there are tons of options.
Good luck!
Edit: Joe considers this a nearfield design for moderate listening levels
I’m not planning a build like this, but noticed this recently.
https://josephcrowe.com/products/speaker-no-1630-plans
I’m sure there are tons of options.
Good luck!
Edit: Joe considers this a nearfield design for moderate listening levels
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Thanks zman01 and chromenuts ! The 130$ of the scanspeak should still fit in the budget and I could try to find two second-hand pairs for a lower price. Joseph Crowe's website looks like a gold mine. The limitations of his design in terms of sound intensity won't be a problem with mine as each speaker will have a pair of mid drivers in a mid-tweeter-mid configuration and a high output 12 inch bass driver.
I forgot to mention the Vifa TC9FD...
And here's an example of a compact 3 way where Wolf_teeth has used a wideband driver (Dayton Audio PC83-4):
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-way-with-concussive-tendencies.386164/page-3
Two 3 way designs that uses wideband drivers in W-M-T-M-W configuration:
http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements.html
http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statement_II_1.html
And here's an example of a compact 3 way where Wolf_teeth has used a wideband driver (Dayton Audio PC83-4):
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-way-with-concussive-tendencies.386164/page-3
Two 3 way designs that uses wideband drivers in W-M-T-M-W configuration:
http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements.html
http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statement_II_1.html
For a high output speaker a look at pro-audio drivers might be a good idea. Drivers from 6"-10" that could handle your passband. Member GM likes an Eminence 6" mid base flat from 200-5k. And they are cheap.
Alpair 7.3 has been my favourite, but for high output the Alpair 10p likely a better choice, with a tweeter the “vintage” top end should just make the
XO easier. It is only 90 dB thou.
This with the A7, but there is a midTweeter box for the A10s. It does point ourt that XOing a tweeter in can sometimes make things worse.
dave
The first really an extended midrange, the other more FR, but neither, as well as the TC9 have sufficient output for a “high output” loudspeaker.
And in my opion the TC9 is not worth what it costs (i thinj they suck).
dave
That should be plenty as there will be 4 of them in total. Maybe even the 7.3 would be enough in that configuration..?
Thank you for the plans and recommandations.
Opposite is true, fullrange will have always higher distortion than dedicated mid.
When it comes to crossover, you are wrong again. Properly designed mid will require no crossover, while fullrange will have to be tamed with steep crossover to get rid of breakups.
But you seems to have your believes and prejudices, so no matter of reality, keep on trucking.
My believes are of no use to me when designing and building speakers and what appears to be prejudices to you are in fact just deductions from my (incomplete in essence) personal experience. I love to be proven wrong as it is a way to learn and to get better at things, and I would appreciate some practical examples of such midrange drivers.
A good choice could be this Fostex series:
https://fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/FF-WKSeries.shtml
https://fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/PSeries.shtml
PHL's 900 series could be also of interest:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...who-have-heard-this-new-devices.273788/page-2
My favorite is this (not perfect in high frequency concerning extension) full range driver: Fane Studio 5M
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...e-by-which-commercial-studio-monitors.194798/
Only available in used condition - mostly with fault surround - OTOH there are a lot of companies who can replace.
The most helpful benefit is the fact, that one can realize two modes with the same 3-way project (and using two different crossover networks):
1) Two way mode (without tweeter) due use of midrange with full range character
2) Three-way mode (with tweeter)
6db (first order) high pass filter will not work in the right manner for the tweeter, because the tweeter itself already represents a second order high pass filter. Check out the details in this book (download for free) - go to
http://www.einklang-audio.com/buch/dichtung_und_wahrheit.pdf
or
http://www.hornlautsprecher.de/download_dichtung.htm
For me best solution is a LR-IV or BU-III - both for low and high pass filters.
I have posted my best cleanest lowest distortion mids many times...vifa, peerless, dayton refference...in many previous threads, my post and my blog.
Here is just one or two.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...hoice-in-a-3-ways-speaker.392650/post-7255678
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/current-best-5-midrange-driver.378212/post-6815971
Here are real data, see fr response and waterfalls for full range drivers.
If you assume that all that resonating breakups can be easily removed by one coil you are delusional.
On the contrary, well designed mid will have no severe breakups.
Breakups are in time domain resonances which are not in the recording, its a speaker generated smearing and distortion. If you like it, fine, but its not hifi.
Btw, best mid is likely dome ATC, but its no longer available to public. Volt is an alternative. Assuming crossed correctly.
Prejudices is not a bad thing, because they are just your tastes after all. The important thing is to understand why you come to have such a conclusion. Unless you can clearly "quantify" why you feel the full range is better, I don't think you will be able to complete a speaker that satisfies you.
I haven't got a lot of listening experiences in terms of speaker diversity, not enough to clearly identify what my tastes are in my opinion. I have listened to more fullrange drivers than 3 way speakers and I couldn't always do direct comparative listening. Maybe I found the mids to be better in fullrange drivers because the lows and highs were worse in comparison ? I don't know. If that is not the way to go for high(est possible) fidelity then I will do what is objectively better/best.