With all the hair splitting in this hobby is amazes me people buy expensive cable and then put brass connectors on it. Brass is like 30% as conductive as copper. I am surprised they even use it for electrical connectors. You also see phosphor bronze and its even worse. I don't get it..
> Brass is like 30% as conductive as copper.
So? It is typically twice the diameter and 1% of the length of the wire it connects. So even at 30% (of arbitrary Copper) it is a very-very small fraction of total line loss.
And why should we care about losses? This isn't 1915. We have amplifiers. While it is conventional (because affordable) to get 90+% power delivery through wires, in the end we have a LOUDSPEAKER with 1% efficiency. 99% lost heat.
So? It is typically twice the diameter and 1% of the length of the wire it connects. So even at 30% (of arbitrary Copper) it is a very-very small fraction of total line loss.
And why should we care about losses? This isn't 1915. We have amplifiers. While it is conventional (because affordable) to get 90+% power delivery through wires, in the end we have a LOUDSPEAKER with 1% efficiency. 99% lost heat.
Most removable connectors in audio (and most electrical equipment meant for high current connections) depend on the better spring action of brass. Copper being a soft metal tends to form into shape very quickly whereas brass retains spring action over multiple reconnections.
Electrical resistance is not the only important factor in connectors. Contact pressure is a pretty big part of the equation, and copper tends to lose contact pressure over time faster than brass.
Again, there multiple factors at play here, and it's been proven time and again that conductivity per se isn't the most important feature when it comes to materials for connectors.
The advantage with copper is that you need much less of it for the same conductivity. There are plenty of options for copper connectors, but after using Cardas posts and spades I tend to prefer their eutectic brass over pure copper posts. The copper posts are designed to not need tightening, but that means they tend to literally weld together. This makes changing connections troublesome (at best).
Electrical resistance is not the only important factor in connectors. Contact pressure is a pretty big part of the equation, and copper tends to lose contact pressure over time faster than brass.
Again, there multiple factors at play here, and it's been proven time and again that conductivity per se isn't the most important feature when it comes to materials for connectors.
The advantage with copper is that you need much less of it for the same conductivity. There are plenty of options for copper connectors, but after using Cardas posts and spades I tend to prefer their eutectic brass over pure copper posts. The copper posts are designed to not need tightening, but that means they tend to literally weld together. This makes changing connections troublesome (at best).
Copper oxidizes badly, brass remains attractive for some time
Stainless steel is better for long term appearance, but is a very poor conductor
Stainless steel is better for long term appearance, but is a very poor conductor
We solder in components with tin and lead, some what less conductive than brass. Signal passes via silicon and often through capacitor dielectric. But still the magic flows at my speakers.
As said above, connection pressure and functionality is the engineering concern. Reliable connection.
When the electronics/speakers are good, matched to each other, matched to what you like to hear and matched to the room a system will sound good. Cables and connectors then make a small difference.
Use what ever look good enough to make your brain believe your ears are hearing the magic.
As said above, connection pressure and functionality is the engineering concern. Reliable connection.
When the electronics/speakers are good, matched to each other, matched to what you like to hear and matched to the room a system will sound good. Cables and connectors then make a small difference.
Use what ever look good enough to make your brain believe your ears are hearing the magic.
I have noticed a very notable increase in the price of good sounding connectors over the last few years. Per example the first time i bought Vampire CM2F/CB they were about $16 a pair, today the same sell for $54. The 800CB were $24 for a pair and today they are $82. Perhaps i am just too old or there is also a reduction in the number of deaf people in the hobby.
$40 for a pair of anything that is good sounding is an incredible deal even for RCA connectors. What materials? Would you share the source?
Those fancy looking, hyped ultra high end, ultra high priced connectors unfortunately are NOT the best sounding connectors.
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I didn't say I thought they were "good sounding".I meant the person selling them says they are "good sounding" and make a huge differece.I personally do not believe a 2" long piece of anything can make a huge difference.I don't want to name names.You can look up "tube connectors" online and get a good idea.
Beryllium copper has just as good of spring force as brass, actually better.. It just seem odd that people debate the most insignificant of details yet will put brass on their $250 cable. But you all gave some good answers. I wasn't debating the affect it had, just the acceptance by people that can get hung up on seemingly small details.
Beryllium copper has properties more like spring steel than copper, but is a much better electrical conductor than spring steel and doesn't rust away in humid conditions.
The properties needed for a connector are mechanical stability and strength, formability & machineability, and of course corrosion resistance. The contacts need springs to exert a large and constant force between the mating surfaces.
Electrical copper is utterly hopeless for all of this (but the corrosion resistance), being soft as butter and almost impossible to machine. Brass, phosphor bronze and BeCu machine well and are hard and durable and the natural choice as they are low-resistivity alloys (compared to steel). They also are less likely than other metals to show electolytic degradation when in contact with copper wire.
BeCu is not typically used for connector bodies due to its toxicity, but is commonly used for spring contacts inside connectors. Phosphor bronze is an alternative to BeCu as I understand it, not quite as good for springs, but good enough.
If cost was no problem silver would be quite a good choice for connectors, and indeed for RF connectors silver-plating is everywhere to reduce resistance (RF only travels through a thin skin at the surface of a conductor), but the basic mechanical components are a cheaper metal.
The properties needed for a connector are mechanical stability and strength, formability & machineability, and of course corrosion resistance. The contacts need springs to exert a large and constant force between the mating surfaces.
Electrical copper is utterly hopeless for all of this (but the corrosion resistance), being soft as butter and almost impossible to machine. Brass, phosphor bronze and BeCu machine well and are hard and durable and the natural choice as they are low-resistivity alloys (compared to steel). They also are less likely than other metals to show electolytic degradation when in contact with copper wire.
BeCu is not typically used for connector bodies due to its toxicity, but is commonly used for spring contacts inside connectors. Phosphor bronze is an alternative to BeCu as I understand it, not quite as good for springs, but good enough.
If cost was no problem silver would be quite a good choice for connectors, and indeed for RF connectors silver-plating is everywhere to reduce resistance (RF only travels through a thin skin at the surface of a conductor), but the basic mechanical components are a cheaper metal.
To clarify: once alloyed as Beryllium copper, the stuff is safe. But the workers who smelt, distill, and alloy the Beryllium, and the now tiny market for Beryllium, mean:
It has no good excuse as an audio connector. Other metals have quite fine mechanical (spring) properties. Connector conductivity is almost never an issue around long wires, but if it were then a fatter chunk of a cheaper metal will ferry the electrons just as good.
Someone said Stainless Steel. Aside from a modestly poor conductivity, the surface oxide (what makes it stainless) is a bad to awful conductor, and tough, so a terrible contact material. (I once worked on a SS contact scheme, and I think more metallurgy would have helped, but it's not a good path.)
The highest resistance in a connector pair is the contact, not the (usually copper based) metal.
And solder is a much poorer conductor than brass.
Cheers,
Patrick
And solder is a much poorer conductor than brass.
Cheers,
Patrick
Some information on RF connector plating from Huber and Suhner. The body material is brass.
HUBER+SUHNER Radio frequency—Page 50
Gold is avoided in connectors as apart from cost, it makes solder brittle.
HUBER+SUHNER Radio frequency—Page 50
Gold is avoided in connectors as apart from cost, it makes solder brittle.
??
It’s trivially easy to not have gold on your solder pads/cups if you don’t want it there. Gold on the actual contacts is typically very beneficial though
It’s trivially easy to not have gold on your solder pads/cups if you don’t want it there. Gold on the actual contacts is typically very beneficial though
Have you signed an NDA to not mention names? 😀 No idea what any of this vagueness actually means.
I agree it's unacceptable but what are the choices? Assuming a 1:10 profit ratio on materials including the dealer's margin how much is actually left for connectors in a $250 cable?
Depends on where you look for BeCu, if in some snake oil websites it will be expensive. Pomona (guys who make the Fluke probes) make BeCu binding posts of very fine quality with one minor issue - they`re not well done for thicker panels (flat part that prevents rotation). Epoxy fixes this 😀
In my opinion this "hyper cable" thing is lots of turd. Why would you put it when the copper tracks/wiring inside the amp will be at least 2m and they`re usually 35u? Then on the woofer/midrange crossover you`d mostly go through a long solid core wire. Still see people buy $40 midwoofers and $300 cable these days...
In my opinion this "hyper cable" thing is lots of turd. Why would you put it when the copper tracks/wiring inside the amp will be at least 2m and they`re usually 35u? Then on the woofer/midrange crossover you`d mostly go through a long solid core wire. Still see people buy $40 midwoofers and $300 cable these days...