I think I have this correct in my mind but would appreciate someone confirming.
My mixer (Peavey -PV14 USB) has XLR outputs from the mains. My powered speakers are 1/4" mono inputs.
I believe the correct wiring configuration is:
XLR Pin 2 = Tip
XLR Pin 1 and Pin 3 = Sleeve (ground).
Some references I looked at indicate Pin 3 as no connection.
Others make reference to connecting Pin 3=Sleeve only on "cross-coupled outputs".
Sound right?
Thanks!
My mixer (Peavey -PV14 USB) has XLR outputs from the mains. My powered speakers are 1/4" mono inputs.
I believe the correct wiring configuration is:
XLR Pin 2 = Tip
XLR Pin 1 and Pin 3 = Sleeve (ground).
Some references I looked at indicate Pin 3 as no connection.
Others make reference to connecting Pin 3=Sleeve only on "cross-coupled outputs".
Sound right?
Thanks!
I believe you're looking for this:
How to Wire an XLR to a 1/4" Jack
This is, of course, assuming that Peavey uses the standard XLR-pinout conventions (1=GND, 2=HOT, 3=COLD).
So yes: 2 goes to the tip.
How to Wire an XLR to a 1/4" Jack
This is, of course, assuming that Peavey uses the standard XLR-pinout conventions (1=GND, 2=HOT, 3=COLD).
So yes: 2 goes to the tip.
Thanks! Your link shows:
XLR Pins 1 & 3 to 1/4" mono sleeve
XLR Pin 2 to 1/4" mono tip
Some other references say that when the XLR (balanced) is the OUTPUT that Pin 3 should be connected to the cable shield but NOT to the 1/4" mono sleeve.
Any thoughts?
XLR Pins 1 & 3 to 1/4" mono sleeve
XLR Pin 2 to 1/4" mono tip
Some other references say that when the XLR (balanced) is the OUTPUT that Pin 3 should be connected to the cable shield but NOT to the 1/4" mono sleeve.
Any thoughts?
The speaker input will be balanced! It is best practice to keep it balanced.
The lead should be TRS
Pin2 Hot/tip
Pin3 Cold/ring
Pin 1 Ground/sleeve
The lead should be TRS
Pin2 Hot/tip
Pin3 Cold/ring
Pin 1 Ground/sleeve
Thanks. Keeping it balanced would of course be best but the powered amp/speaker only has mono (unbalanced) input.
So the options are only:
XLR Pin 2 to 1/4" mono tip
XLR Pin 1 to 1/4" mono sleeve
XLR Pin 3 to cable shield and 1/4" mono sleeve
OR
XLR Pin 2 to 1/4" mono tip
XLR Pin 1 to 1/4" mono sleeve
XLR Pin 3 to cable shield (no connection to 1/4" mono sleeve)
So the options are only:
XLR Pin 2 to 1/4" mono tip
XLR Pin 1 to 1/4" mono sleeve
XLR Pin 3 to cable shield and 1/4" mono sleeve
OR
XLR Pin 2 to 1/4" mono tip
XLR Pin 1 to 1/4" mono sleeve
XLR Pin 3 to cable shield (no connection to 1/4" mono sleeve)
Both will probably work fine. Some would argue that option 2 is best (not connecting XLR pin 3, but keep it connected at the mixer side).
When the receiver is unbalanced and the source is balanced, you must consult the source operator's manual to find the recommended way to wire up a bal to unbal connector lead.
Rane and Jensen gives lots of advice on these converter leads.
Some sources will adjust their output voltage to suit the way the pins are wired.
Others will not adjust the output voltage.
Many sources will allow the unused balanced output to be shorted to the receivers signal ground, while others will be damaged by operating long term into a shorted input.
A balanced XLR is:
Pin 1 = Chassis, Pin 2 = Hot, Pin 3 = Cold
A balanced TRS is :
Tip = Hot, Ring = Cold, Sleeve = Chassis
An unbalanced TS (no ring) is:
Tip = Hot, Sleeve = Return/Signal Ground
Rane and Jensen gives lots of advice on these converter leads.
Some sources will adjust their output voltage to suit the way the pins are wired.
Others will not adjust the output voltage.
Many sources will allow the unused balanced output to be shorted to the receivers signal ground, while others will be damaged by operating long term into a shorted input.
A balanced XLR is:
Pin 1 = Chassis, Pin 2 = Hot, Pin 3 = Cold
A balanced TRS is :
Tip = Hot, Ring = Cold, Sleeve = Chassis
An unbalanced TS (no ring) is:
Tip = Hot, Sleeve = Return/Signal Ground
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It's a Peavey. The output will be from a pair of op amps through 100 ohm resistors. So if you connect pin 3 to shield which will also be common or ground all you get is a shorted output on one op amp. So in this case you would leave pin 3 open.
If it were a transformer balanced output then leaving pin 3 open would give you almost no signal except for a bit of high end that would manage to leak through stray capacitances.
There are some op amp based line drivers that try to act like a transformer and will change gain if hooked up incorrectly. You don't have that here.
If it were a transformer balanced output then leaving pin 3 open would give you almost no signal except for a bit of high end that would manage to leak through stray capacitances.
There are some op amp based line drivers that try to act like a transformer and will change gain if hooked up incorrectly. You don't have that here.
if your powered speakers are equipped with grounded AC cords and your mixer is grounded you may want to wire your XLR to 1/4 adapter as pin2 to tip,pin3 to sleeve and leave shield unterminated at the 1/4(destination)end.
i my experience not terminating one half of a balanced line output results in a loss of gain.
if this configuration results in high frequency noise terminating the shield at the destination end through an .047 mfd might be required.
p.s.:what brand of powered speaker do you have?
i my experience not terminating one half of a balanced line output results in a loss of gain.
if this configuration results in high frequency noise terminating the shield at the destination end through an .047 mfd might be required.
p.s.:what brand of powered speaker do you have?
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Thanks turk. I was given 4 of these new labelled "J-15A". (long story). They are what I believe are a Chinese copy of a major brand. I've been using all 4 with my band. They have a 15" cone speaker and a horn in the typical polycarb one piece enclosure.
Attached is a pic of the amp controls. The inputs were labelled "Main Left CH" and "Right CH". There is also a Neutrix speaker level output for an extension speaker. (we use the neutrix to drive spot monitors).
The two inputs have never made sense to me and plugging a signal into the Right CH does not produce any output. The "Balance" pot only serves to cut all volume (kinda like a counterclockwise vol pot).
So I did a few "experiments" (I only know enough to be dangerous!). I came to the conclusion that I could rewire the two input jacks as parallel "Balanced" jacks.so that I can take a balanced(TRS) or unbal(TS) signal into the "Main Left CH" and daisy chain to another J15A Main Left CH input.
Seems to work without hum, dist, etc.
One thing seems strange to me however; taking a XLR output from the mixer to TRS (with XLR Pin 3 connected to TRS -R) produces slightly LESS volume than taking XLR output to TP (with XLR Pin 3 connected to TR-S along with Pin 1).
Based on the great advice from you and others at diyaudio I'm going to try lifting Pin 3 from the TRS and TS and see if that makes a difference or at least could be easier on the mixer op-amps.
PS - the "white" labels in the pics were added by me when I rewire the inputs.
Attached is a pic of the amp controls. The inputs were labelled "Main Left CH" and "Right CH". There is also a Neutrix speaker level output for an extension speaker. (we use the neutrix to drive spot monitors).
The two inputs have never made sense to me and plugging a signal into the Right CH does not produce any output. The "Balance" pot only serves to cut all volume (kinda like a counterclockwise vol pot).
So I did a few "experiments" (I only know enough to be dangerous!). I came to the conclusion that I could rewire the two input jacks as parallel "Balanced" jacks.so that I can take a balanced(TRS) or unbal(TS) signal into the "Main Left CH" and daisy chain to another J15A Main Left CH input.
Seems to work without hum, dist, etc.
One thing seems strange to me however; taking a XLR output from the mixer to TRS (with XLR Pin 3 connected to TRS -R) produces slightly LESS volume than taking XLR output to TP (with XLR Pin 3 connected to TR-S along with Pin 1).
Based on the great advice from you and others at diyaudio I'm going to try lifting Pin 3 from the TRS and TS and see if that makes a difference or at least could be easier on the mixer op-amps.
PS - the "white" labels in the pics were added by me when I rewire the inputs.
Attachments
the balanced impedance output is usually arranged with two voltages in the signal cable.
One phase gives a nominal voltage.
The other phase gives the same nominal voltage, but is 180degress out of phase.
The difference between these two signals gives the balanced output and is +6dB ref the nominal voltage. It is this DIFFERENCE voltage that is quoted as the output voltage of the Source. The nominal voltage on one pole is -6dB ref this Balanced output.
If you plug that two phase signal into a channel that uses only one of the signal poles you get the lower voltage. The other pole is shorted to signal ground.
If the XLR source is wired such that it recognises the short to signal ground of the unused pole it changes the gain in the source to DOUBLE the output voltage on the used signal pole.
But many balanced outputs do not change the gain when the unused pole is earthed.
Some balanced outputs do not tolerate long term shorting of the signal to earth. For these it is better to shunt the unused signal using a dummy load resistor to signal ground with a value similar to the nominal input impedance of the operational input.
If you use this dummy resistor with a balanced input that changes gain to suit used/unused pole implementation, the output does not change gain. It stays at the lower level.
One phase gives a nominal voltage.
The other phase gives the same nominal voltage, but is 180degress out of phase.
The difference between these two signals gives the balanced output and is +6dB ref the nominal voltage. It is this DIFFERENCE voltage that is quoted as the output voltage of the Source. The nominal voltage on one pole is -6dB ref this Balanced output.
If you plug that two phase signal into a channel that uses only one of the signal poles you get the lower voltage. The other pole is shorted to signal ground.
If the XLR source is wired such that it recognises the short to signal ground of the unused pole it changes the gain in the source to DOUBLE the output voltage on the used signal pole.
But many balanced outputs do not change the gain when the unused pole is earthed.
Some balanced outputs do not tolerate long term shorting of the signal to earth. For these it is better to shunt the unused signal using a dummy load resistor to signal ground with a value similar to the nominal input impedance of the operational input.
If you use this dummy resistor with a balanced input that changes gain to suit used/unused pole implementation, the output does not change gain. It stays at the lower level.
is probably you hearing the -6dB level.
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Thank you Andrew. I wish I had more education so I could better understand your detailed explanation.
I recognize that without actual schematics and values that coming to an confident configuration recommendation is impossible, but can you please tell me how I should configure the input (1/4" TRS or TS input) to the amp that minimizes risk of damage to both the mixer output and the amp?
Scenario A - XLR Output to TRS Input (balanced)
Pin 1= ?
Pin 2= ?
Pin 3= ?
Scenario B - XLR Output to TR Input (unbalanced)
Pin 1= ?
Pin 2= ?
Pin 3= ?
Scenario C - TR (unbalanced) Output to TR Input (unbalanced)
T = ?
S = ?
Thanks again!
I recognize that without actual schematics and values that coming to an confident configuration recommendation is impossible, but can you please tell me how I should configure the input (1/4" TRS or TS input) to the amp that minimizes risk of damage to both the mixer output and the amp?
Scenario A - XLR Output to TRS Input (balanced)
Pin 1= ?
Pin 2= ?
Pin 3= ?
Scenario B - XLR Output to TR Input (unbalanced)
Pin 1= ?
Pin 2= ?
Pin 3= ?
Scenario C - TR (unbalanced) Output to TR Input (unbalanced)
T = ?
S = ?
Thanks again!
Some good pages on balanced interconnects:
"Design of High-Performance Balanced Audio Interfaces"
Bill Whitlock - Jensen Transformers, Inc. (Edited By Rod Elliott)
Balanced Interfaces
Balanced Interfaces
*************************************
The Doug Self Balanced Line Technology paper:
"Balanced Line Technology"
Balanced Line Technology
***************************************
RaneNote
"Sound System Interconnection"
Sound System Interconnection
"Design of High-Performance Balanced Audio Interfaces"
Bill Whitlock - Jensen Transformers, Inc. (Edited By Rod Elliott)
Balanced Interfaces
Balanced Interfaces
*************************************
The Doug Self Balanced Line Technology paper:
"Balanced Line Technology"
Balanced Line Technology
***************************************
RaneNote
"Sound System Interconnection"
Sound System Interconnection
Thanks. Very rich reference. Unfortunately I'm a mechanical engineer and barely made it through electronics 101!
The easy decision is made for you.
Pin 1 goes to Chassis.
Sleeve goes to Chassis.
This next part is conventional.
Pin 2 is Signal Hot.
It goes to Signal Input.
This is where it becomes complicated.
Pin 3 is Signal Cold.
It should be safe to take this to Signal Ground.
Because Signal Ground is isolated from Chassis, Pin 3 does not see a short. It does not get damaged, provided your Receiver has Signal Ground isolated from Chassis.
Pin 1 goes to Chassis.
Sleeve goes to Chassis.
This next part is conventional.
Pin 2 is Signal Hot.
It goes to Signal Input.
This is where it becomes complicated.
Pin 3 is Signal Cold.
It should be safe to take this to Signal Ground.
Because Signal Ground is isolated from Chassis, Pin 3 does not see a short. It does not get damaged, provided your Receiver has Signal Ground isolated from Chassis.
Thanks Andrew. I appreciate your ability to make it clear to those of us with only basic understanding. I'll confirm that my "receiver" (amp) does not have signal ground connected to chassis ground. With plastic 1/4" jacks I suspect that is the case.
after looking at your picture of the patch plate of your speaker and remembering that you mentioned no output on one input i am wondering if in fact these powered speakers have stereo or 2 channel amps in them! the speakon pinning (it is a 4 pin connector) states that left is across the 1+ and1- and right is across 2+ and 2- i'd wire a speakon connector and run the "right"(2+ 2-) to a passive to see if that works. if it does it gives you some flexibility perhaps to drive subs or monitors...
Excellent point turk. I've known the speakons have 4 separate contact points but always assumed that was for reliability purposes. I'll try your suggestion and see if indeed the amp can output 2 channels (stereo).
for your edification the speakon series connectors come in two flavours 4 pin (biamp) 8 pin (4 way)
in your application they are allowing stereo across a quad cable so with the right splays you can drive other passive speakers but be wary of amp loading!(and double check pin phasing nothing worse than making cables that unintentionally put the other speakers out of phase!)
don't forget the "balance" control!!
in your application they are allowing stereo across a quad cable so with the right splays you can drive other passive speakers but be wary of amp loading!(and double check pin phasing nothing worse than making cables that unintentionally put the other speakers out of phase!)
don't forget the "balance" control!!
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