So, I have gorged much and digested some of the mind-numbing multitude of threads contained herein of deep knowledge, analyses and quibbles on varied DIY audio subject matter.
In doing so, I've realized that, on this forum, getting a simple answer without a dense paragraph of caveats or without a pre-ambled sound measurement hypothesis - is as difficult as understanding why some people don't like anything Star Trek or why others actually like to eat candied fruit cake.
Nevertheless, I will pose a simple question, hoping for a few reasonably simple answers to help with my first speaker build, and ultimately to achieve enlightenment within this realm.
Q: For those who have experienced and believe that a good compression driver & horn/waveguide combo delivers an overall more dynamic midrange-to-high frequency sound experience (vs. dome tweeter or dome tweeter & midrange cone), what is your vote for a specific model of horn/waveguide that delivers the least 'sound colouration'? I ask this because I have been reading many conflicting opinions about which horns do or don't add colouration. And nevermind discussing other variables like room acoustics, audio gear, on/off axis directivity, crossover design, etc., which really shouldn't affect horn colouration.
Thanks, music lovers.
In doing so, I've realized that, on this forum, getting a simple answer without a dense paragraph of caveats or without a pre-ambled sound measurement hypothesis - is as difficult as understanding why some people don't like anything Star Trek or why others actually like to eat candied fruit cake.
Nevertheless, I will pose a simple question, hoping for a few reasonably simple answers to help with my first speaker build, and ultimately to achieve enlightenment within this realm.
Q: For those who have experienced and believe that a good compression driver & horn/waveguide combo delivers an overall more dynamic midrange-to-high frequency sound experience (vs. dome tweeter or dome tweeter & midrange cone), what is your vote for a specific model of horn/waveguide that delivers the least 'sound colouration'? I ask this because I have been reading many conflicting opinions about which horns do or don't add colouration. And nevermind discussing other variables like room acoustics, audio gear, on/off axis directivity, crossover design, etc., which really shouldn't affect horn colouration.
Thanks, music lovers.
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Ouch redSLED, tell me what's the best car to buy, don't ask me questions and it has to be correct.
Ok then, axisymmetrical OS.
Ok then, axisymmetrical OS.
When you say least "sound colouration" do you mean flattest response?
And if you're not worried about on/off axis directivity, why not just look at spec sheets? Bang you're done! lol
And if you're not worried about on/off axis directivity, why not just look at spec sheets? Bang you're done! lol
I have experience only with the Eighteen Sound XT120 elliptical horn and not hearing any unwanted "horn coloration".
I don't really know what that bad coloration might be, but I've read that diffraction horns, for example, can cause that with their sharp corners.
I don't really know what that bad coloration might be, but I've read that diffraction horns, for example, can cause that with their sharp corners.
I suppose in audio layman's terms, 'horn colouration' = any audible hint of 'horn honk' as I understand it.
If someone could verify that 'no horn colouration' (subjective, by ear listening) is synonomous with 'flat response' (equipment measured) - that would help move this discussion along.
By my online audio forum and blog readings, the JBL M2 waveguide and JBL JRX waveguide/clones (used in the Econowave speakers) consistently gather the most references of having no horn sound colouration (aside from outstanding constant directivity) vs. other horns/waveguides. Or are these references purely blog writers gushing about JBL? And if there are so many sharp-cornered horns that are not putting out neutral, 'uncoloured sound', why do they keep selling, or rather why do speaker builders buy them?
Still, I'm just trying to see people's top choices of neutral, 'no colouration' midrange horns - to compile a shortlist of preferred/popular makes and models that fit this criterion, if possible.
Probably splitting hairs here. I mean, compared to reference monitors, most if not all 'audiophile' speakers will sound 'coloured' or 'boosted' in the lows and highs, or balanced differently.
Just simply concerned (or temporarily obsessed) with getting horn-lovers' feedback on their choice of most neutral 'uncoloured sounding' horns/waveguides - makes and models.
Just simply concerned (or temporarily obsessed) with getting horn-lovers' feedback on their choice of most neutral 'uncoloured sounding' horns/waveguides - makes and models.
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The story is on this site. Once money got involved, the ideals got corrupted. Except for those that understand horns.redSLED said:
Mm, I should add, that I don't care for measurements and graphs in this case - I would prefer to know horn lovers' 'most neutral horn/waveguide' choices/experience based on their subjective listening of more than a few horns.
You see, I saw an ad of a guy selling his expensive German-made tractrix round horns, so he could upgrade/change to some other 'better sounding' horns. Yes, alot of other factors could be at play there re. his perceived sound of his tractrix horns. But - I don't want to be that guy, changing and upgrading needlessly, until I become a cranky old audiophile searching for perfection, thousands of dollars later. So I thought I'd start with eliminating any horn choices that have 'sound colouration' or any hint of 'horn honk'. I'm sure flaws abound in this thought process - please point any of them out as you see fit - I am here to learn and unlearn along the way.
You see, I saw an ad of a guy selling his expensive German-made tractrix round horns, so he could upgrade/change to some other 'better sounding' horns. Yes, alot of other factors could be at play there re. his perceived sound of his tractrix horns. But - I don't want to be that guy, changing and upgrading needlessly, until I become a cranky old audiophile searching for perfection, thousands of dollars later. So I thought I'd start with eliminating any horn choices that have 'sound colouration' or any hint of 'horn honk'. I'm sure flaws abound in this thought process - please point any of them out as you see fit - I am here to learn and unlearn along the way.
You would need something pretty good to better than the JBL Studio 590 arrangement.Despite them being very affordable.Worth buying those speakers just for the tweeter and matching wave guide.And I hate to say it but they measure extremely well too.Designed by Greg Timbers.
Very few companies have the experience and resources to match that sort of performance.
Very few companies have the experience and resources to match that sort of performance.
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Well yes and no. If you get the crossover wrong you could easily make a "good" horn sound colored. That is just one example. Stick to the more modern waveguides and be prepared to have to use a HF compensation circuit to smooth the response.
Rob 🙂
And sometimes it's not the horn. Cross over to the woofer (or mid) at the wrong frequency and the directivity discontinuity will make the horn/CD seem to sound bad. I think that this is one of the things that Dr. Geddes (Gedlee on this forum) got right with his designs.