Hi ! first of all if this topic has been already discussed please forgive me and redirect to the relevant thread.
If you have to design a 3 ways speaker which xover point between the bass and the midrange would you choose ?
This is my most recurrent nightmare .... i know that there must be an optimum choice but i really do not know which is it.
Looking around i see the crossover point ranging from 120Hz up to 1kHz
They are all equally good ? i am doubtful. There must be a best choice.
As i said at the beginning if the topic has been already debated please redirect me to the relevant thread.
Kind regards, gino
If you have to design a 3 ways speaker which xover point between the bass and the midrange would you choose ?
This is my most recurrent nightmare .... i know that there must be an optimum choice but i really do not know which is it.
Looking around i see the crossover point ranging from 120Hz up to 1kHz
They are all equally good ? i am doubtful. There must be a best choice.
As i said at the beginning if the topic has been already debated please redirect me to the relevant thread.
Kind regards, gino
Hi!
is there a construct for it already or are you just figuring out a 3 way system?
If its already build then measure and simulate, listen and iterate.
If you are just figuring it all out, then few questions that relate:
is there a construct for it already or are you just figuring out a 3 way system?
If its already build then measure and simulate, listen and iterate.
If you are just figuring it all out, then few questions that relate:
- what kind of SPL the system is required to play?
- what kind of bandwidth the system is required to play?
- do you already have the drivers or is it open concept still?
- what about crossover, is it passive speaker or active with DSP or is this also open question?
- for what application is it, does it have to be one construct or can it be multiple "boxes"?
- how about manufacturing skills/possibilities?
- looks?
Hi thank you for the kind reply. Let me explain a little better my situation.
I have finally found a carpenter friend who could assist me in the cabinet construction. He is also very passionate in high Fi and has already made two little towers 2 ways very very nice and heavy He has to change a woofer but i am sure that they must sound quite good.
I have currently at hands some decent drivers taken from commercial speakers. For domes i have two 2" from Dynaudio D52 and ITT lpkm/105/37/120
Midrange many 5 to 6" ... but of course i could buy other better suited for a specific project
But my question is very general
Looking around i see in the forums and in the market speakers using cone midranges and other dome midranges
Let's take WIlson Audio ... their mids are all cones
ATC instead they have their famous dome mid
I do not understand which are the drawbacks of one or the other solution.
I tend to like better the Wilson choice. In a 3 ways with a dome the woofer must reproduce a pipe organ and a good part of a female voice at the same time
I made a little test sometime ago ... i had a 2 ways pair ... i cut with an electronic xover all the frequencies below 120 Hz ... no more deep bass at all (of course) but much cleaner midrange A lot cleaner
The idea with the carpenter is to end with a satellite above a bass box one per side
But i have to decide what midrange to put in the satellites ... cone or dome. I have seen satellites with both solution. I am stuck on this doubt now.
Thanks again and kind regards, gino
Hi ! nothing ready Only drivers available Both cones and domes midrange But i could buy better onesHi!
is there a construct for it already or are you just figuring out a 3 way system?
If its already build then measure and simulate, listen and iterate.
If you are just figuring it all out, then few questions that relate:
Gazillion things, basically trying to ask what is the status of the project? Believe or not crossover is one of the trivial parts of any loudspeaker system, just measure and simulate and implement, its just a task and some money thrown at it although result can be good or bad one just have to iterate with it. Coming up with a construct that is suitable for application is the difficult part
- what kind of SPL the system is required to play?
- what kind of bandwidth the system is required to play?
- do you already have the drivers or is it open concept still?
- what about crossover, is it passive speaker or active with DSP or is this also open question?
- for what application is it, does it have to be one construct or can it be multiple "boxes"?
- how about manufacturing skills/possibilities?
- looks?
I would make a kind of definitive speaker
My room is 4.5x6 meters ... i listened at 2.5 meters from the speakers
From what i understand i cannot get very low bass in a room this size ... i do not know how low i can go Maybe 50Hz ? less ?
Hi ! i have already a pair of D28 and D21 that i could use
But my doubt is really about the midrange There is a saying around ... get the midrange right and you have done 90% of the job
Then you have just to add some bass and some high
Yes i understand that
However i see also two ways with 8" woofers crossed at 2Khz ... like some Tannoy DC i have at hands
Personally i have the feeling that the best solution is a cone midrange taking from 120 to 2000 more or less
I really like the idea to separate the very low bass and the lower midrange I do not like the ATC solution completely
I would use another midcone belove the dome
But i would like to get advice before starting the construction
And of course the woofer to midrange xover cut frequency choice will dictate the midrange type and size choice
It's usually better to cross low, but as you go lower than around 700Hz there will be more signal to push the cone, and less benefit from going lower.
Still, I can understand you wanting to go as low as this allows. Since you have a range to choose from, it can be open to experimenting.
Still, I can understand you wanting to go as low as this allows. Since you have a range to choose from, it can be open to experimenting.
The size of your room has no relationship to the lowest note you can reproduce. To the contrary. A small room is more efficient for low frequencies. This effect is called room gain.
Your room is not really huge, so for your design, I would go for a sealed enclosure. The natural roll off on the low end of this setup will be compensated by increasing room gain.
Your room is not really huge, so for your design, I would go for a sealed enclosure. The natural roll off on the low end of this setup will be compensated by increasing room gain.
Hi thanks a lot. This i did not know and it is very important. Very good news. I was resigned to live without the very low bass Very good to know.
Agreed ! but still my original question is open What would you use in a 3 ways ... a cone or a dome midrange ?
I think this is a very preliminary design choice Then the drivers selection follows
That sounds like 2-way plus subwoofer to me.
You need midbass driver with lower Fs and bigger Xmax compared to a proper midrange.
Classic 3-way has first x-over frequency around 800hz. I believe thats beacuse human hearing has low sensitivity to location of sound from 800-1200Hz, so better "melt" of two drivers are possible.
Midrange is 2-3in dome or 4-5in cone, the choice is matter of preference. In both cases, moving mass is low and Xmax is small.
Such dedicated midrange drivers allows that second x-over frequency is pushed to 4-5kHz to move it out of vocal range, also giving a better "melt".
For the sake of truth, both ways skilfully executed will perform extraordinary. I am inclined a little more to the dome midrange route. This was the classic solution style of the past, nowadays not so often anymore. This way you shift the x/o point more to the right side of the spectrum which helps in simplifying x/o network, not having to worry about complex impedance and their compensation circuits and preventing from dipping down where amplifier might become overstressed. Also a dome midrange can play higher frequencies easily, releaving the tweeter from distorting at higher listening volume.
I like speakers to produce large wavelengths in comparison to the internal enclosure dimensions. This calls for low crossover points. The reason is that if all the dimensions of the enclosure are smaller than half a wave length, standing waves cannot form.
Faital 6RS140 is a very nice mid driver that can be crossed low and needs a small enclosure in view of its low Qts, so it can keep up to fairly high frequencies within this same philosophy.
You may not need any damping for the bass driver if you cross low and steep enough.
Faital 6RS140 is a very nice mid driver that can be crossed low and needs a small enclosure in view of its low Qts, so it can keep up to fairly high frequencies within this same philosophy.
You may not need any damping for the bass driver if you cross low and steep enough.
I would say the classic 3-way has crossovers of approximately 300 Hz and 3 kHz.... really anything from 250-500 Hz and 2k-4k would be "classic".
Hi yes ! that is indeed my idea I had the opportunity to listen to quite a few satellite + sub systems and i prefer them to a single cabinet tower design as an example
I think that a lot of information is available for sub woofers a very important component in HT system The woofer in the end is the driver that excites more the cabinet sides for its big moving mass I like the idea to keep it in a separate and suitable enclosure The satellite could be decoupled easier from the sub but i do not know the best way I will study about this
Define classic
Many one box speakers have 4" mids crossed also at 4-500Hz Like the vintage JBL monitor bookshelves for instanceAR10 pi-greco i read 525 e 5000 Hz
For instance i was looking at Wilson Audio 3-way models as an example and they indeed propose different 3 ways with first cut from 120Hz to around 200Hz depending on the specific model. They used even 7" midwoofers. As you say a 2-way plus sub solution.
AudioXpress review is good but did you see the big amount of harmonic H3 peak around 900 hz !
18thSounds 6MB430 has very low THD, not sure about the Klippel though !
I wisch I saw a the SB Audience 6.1/4" Rosso MW test too!