NAP-140 Clone Amp Kit on eBay

[traderbam]

Good day
Dear Traderbam what you think about:
What happens when DIYers make of clone Naim amps and not have naim sound when work is done ?
I think your story is same with working stories diyers naim,s clones )

Many things in naim amps make for sound
And when you DIY your naim clone your not have of all naim fabric experience and methods and others
Simple amp and schematic but not simple building …

Hi Oleg.
Good question.
One explanation is that people clone the schematic diagram but the diagram is an incomplete specification. The missing specifications include PCB layout, wiring, capacitor types and how to select the transistors.

Another explanation is that people modify the original design based on incomplete understanding of the system. The typical mods are output coils and simple psu decoupling. In isolation these things are beneficial but in a system they can cause bad side-effects.

The original Naim design looks simple on paper but it is far from simple. I see 5 main innovations that are either not understood or are overlooked by most people. They are not explained in any documents I have come across.

 

[traderbam]

It doesn't surprise me that the Nait 5i sounds dull. That's predictable from the circuit design. What does surprise me is that Naim made this circuit. Did the recipe get lost when Sells was put in charge? Weird.

 

[Oleg Turbin]

I think you right
Because up to 2000y JV change all design by him philosophy and correct anything for getting excellent sound (Naim sound)
After 2000y engineers have a free watching by all design.
This happens some like American Space program (Verner Fon Broun) and Soviet Union space program (Sergei Korolyov). Head chiefs is gone and all stopping …

 

[Oleg Turbin]

It doesn't surprise me that the Nait 5i sounds dull. That's predictable from the circuit design. What does surprise me is that Naim made this circuit. Did the recipe get lost when Sells was put in charge? Weird.

Schematic the Nait5i more different with Nait3 and Nait5

Nait5i/5si/super/Xs have a different input and output design.
Output is not quasi )

About Steve design...
“i'm an artist i see it that way..”

 

[Ian Finch]

Hi Oleg. Do you have a link or copy on your hard disk, of the Nait5 schematic? I'd appreciate seeing it for reference in the discussion.

 

[mdardeniz]

nait5 schematic (I believe

 

[Ian Finch]

Yes, the above schematic in #4526 is the 5i design (2003) - same as referred to earlier. The missing schematics are the earlier Nait5 (2000), and Nait5si (2013) which I haven't found on the internet yet. Perhaps the Nait 5 was a work in progress at the time and the new management team wanted to start afresh - leaving the product as JV intended.

It seems the Nait5 had problems from the start, which at least the new management team must have realised, with 2 significantly improved versions already. So the question I'm actually asking here is; what were those "improvements"? Just more power, standard RCA connectors and complementary output stages? I think that the beefier XS integrated amplifier also went through 2 revisions or "i=improved" versions at about the same time, maybe that's also relevant.

 

[Oleg Turbin]

My friend JPK checked for me Supernait inputs voltages
And 31v-G-31v AC Is very HI power output to speakers


I think the Supernait2 have a same voltage but I not sure. Maybe Supernait2 have more power.

 

[mdardeniz]

Yes, the above schematic in #4526 is the 5i design (2003) - same as referred to earlier. The missing schematics are the earlier Nait5 (2000), and Nait5si (2013) which I haven't found on the internet yet. Perhaps the Nait 5 was a work in progress at the time and the new management team wanted to start afresh - leaving the product as JV intended.

My schematic has named as Nait5ii / 2012.

 

[Ian Finch]

I may have missed something but the 5i and 5ii amplifiers seem to be very similar if not the same design, at least as far as the power amplifier sections are concerned. Apparently, the original Nait 5 was rated at 30W/channel/8R though a couple of reviewers believe it is more capable than that. The Supernait is rated 80W/8R and Nait5 ("i" and "ii" versions) are 60W/8R). I guess those differences are mostly due the sizes of the power transformers.

There are also some differences between models in the mix of Din V RCA connectors. This is likely about making enough connections to legacy Naim gear, such as Snaps power supplies, Stageline phono preamps etc. where Naim were probably the only hifi manufacturers still using them.

 

[Oleg Turbin]

NAP140 DIY
Better than China clone
I draw this from original NAP140 boards

I wait aluminium profile for building this boards to chassis

 

[Oleg Turbin]

China board left on photo
Have a different design

 

[mdardeniz]

If you want to make great experience, you can try to make a DIY Naim stuff. It's really difficult to find real naim sound. Perhaps, you can find real values and material and you can finish with very good sound. But, like me if it's difficult to find real Naim material like transistors, capacitors.. you have to try many different materials and may be spend too much money and time NAP140's material can be found and like me you can get real sound after perhaps one year after after trying many power transistors and capacitors, diagrams. But, if you don't want to spend much time for this. It's easy to find a second hand Naim. You can renew some capacitors and use it. Very very simple and perhaps cheaper. Also, note that at least Naim has 5-6 kg toroidal transformer Also, note that if you make a naim diagram you will get an amplificator, not difficult.

 

[huggygood]

Oleg create clones from the original naim devices, and makes his own PCB and selects the components properly by comparing it to the originals, it's hard to do better.

 

[mdardeniz]

My writings are not for him, it's my general approach.

 

[huggygood]

My writings are not for him, it's my general approach.

so I agree with you, it is simple to make a Naim clone work but you will only get the sound of the original Naims by trying to fully understand the original schématics.

 

[Oleg Turbin]

Dear huggygood
Gold words!!!
Absolutely correct


P.s we work with Julian and 🎧 …

 

[Oleg Turbin]

Dear mdardeniz
In attachment my former Naim CB system
And headline2

 

[Oleg Turbin]

And this

 

[mdardeniz]

Why don't you use your original ones? for example why do you make a new pcb?