Hey Guys I've been lurking here for awhile now but have yet to get around to building my first speaker. I've been pouring over designs and specs and measurements for the last month and can't decide exactly which kit I should go for.
I listen to quite a bit of old badly mastered classic rock and modern indie rock/pop/folk etc, anything from TOOL to the Beatles. I tend to have a little bit of upper mid and treble sensitivity. I find many commercial designs tend to have a little too much treble/mid emphasis. I don't listen too loudly, the highest would be about 80db and that quite seldomly. My ideal sound would land somewhere between a the Sennheiser HD650 and HD600, I can turn the volume up without wincing!
So I am looking for a slightly forgiving and not forward speaker that's not too far off neutral, to be used without a sub. I prefer a solid tight bass, with clean smooth mids (not missing low mids), and prefer a less hard treble. The hard leading edge on guitar plucks is unnecessary.
I also have a thing for large 3 way standmounts, they just appeal to my aesthetic/psycho acoustic preferences. Plus I like the flexibility of placement they give me. I'm not interested in a 2 way or tower speakers. I have a moderate sized space, hardwood floors with a rug and coffee table. It's fairly reflective and unfortunately I can't do too much about it... it's open concept with a descending staircase next to one speaker and the other speaker is in a corner. I really need to move. Either way a smooth descending off axis is important to me.
Really I'm looking for more experienced people to chime in about the designs and maybe give me an opinion? The big one is the 3.5/4" vs 5.25" mid driver differences vs dispersion in reflective environment. I always worry that much of my listening fatique is more due to off axis peaks through the mids. Also, with the two Troels speaekers will i see any bass below 40hz with room gain?
1. Selah Vigore - this one has been called slightly forgiving from the small amount of impressions out there
2. ScanSpeak 3-Way Discovery
3. SEAS 3-Way Classic, mkII
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
I listen to quite a bit of old badly mastered classic rock and modern indie rock/pop/folk etc, anything from TOOL to the Beatles. I tend to have a little bit of upper mid and treble sensitivity. I find many commercial designs tend to have a little too much treble/mid emphasis. I don't listen too loudly, the highest would be about 80db and that quite seldomly. My ideal sound would land somewhere between a the Sennheiser HD650 and HD600, I can turn the volume up without wincing!
So I am looking for a slightly forgiving and not forward speaker that's not too far off neutral, to be used without a sub. I prefer a solid tight bass, with clean smooth mids (not missing low mids), and prefer a less hard treble. The hard leading edge on guitar plucks is unnecessary.
I also have a thing for large 3 way standmounts, they just appeal to my aesthetic/psycho acoustic preferences. Plus I like the flexibility of placement they give me. I'm not interested in a 2 way or tower speakers. I have a moderate sized space, hardwood floors with a rug and coffee table. It's fairly reflective and unfortunately I can't do too much about it... it's open concept with a descending staircase next to one speaker and the other speaker is in a corner. I really need to move. Either way a smooth descending off axis is important to me.
Really I'm looking for more experienced people to chime in about the designs and maybe give me an opinion? The big one is the 3.5/4" vs 5.25" mid driver differences vs dispersion in reflective environment. I always worry that much of my listening fatique is more due to off axis peaks through the mids. Also, with the two Troels speaekers will i see any bass below 40hz with room gain?
1. Selah Vigore - this one has been called slightly forgiving from the small amount of impressions out there
2. ScanSpeak 3-Way Discovery
3. SEAS 3-Way Classic, mkII
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
You may want to add the Speaker Design Works Statement Monitor I’d better still the Finalist to the list.
Statements_Monitor
Speaker Design Works
Statements_Monitor
Speaker Design Works
Hey Ugg, I've looked at those and decided against because of the rising treble response. I really wish it had some off axis data. Either way, I have a speaker with a raal tweeter and I don't think ribbons are for me. Thanks
They look interesting but I would prefer a speaker I can place upright, just for space requirements.
Hmmmm....
It seems there is a significant desire out in the DIY world for a basic, simple, reasonabe build cost, state of the art 3 way DIY design channeling the old, and not that bad by modern standards, AR3A.
So... just for sh*ts and giggles, I am foolish enough, (bored maybe?) to put forward a proposed design using bang for the buck, well known, off the shelf drivers, based on a sealed 2.2 cu. ft. internal volume or so Monkey Coffin. Will add mucho stuffing of course. Working a half space F3 of 42 Hz or a bit lower if it can be done. True target efficiency of 88 dbw or so from 45 Hz to 15 Khz. Usable output in a typical residential environment from 32 Hz assuming a 12"-24" distance from the rear of the enclosure to the rear wall and a woofer center distance of around 20" off the floor.
12" woofer, 2" dome mid, basic 1" silk dome tweeter. As simple of passive Xover that channels Butterworth and or LR 2nd order acoustic. Will require Zobels and traps Oh My too!
So out there in "you will find many faults with the above" universe, what do you think?
It seems there is a significant desire out in the DIY world for a basic, simple, reasonabe build cost, state of the art 3 way DIY design channeling the old, and not that bad by modern standards, AR3A.
So... just for sh*ts and giggles, I am foolish enough, (bored maybe?) to put forward a proposed design using bang for the buck, well known, off the shelf drivers, based on a sealed 2.2 cu. ft. internal volume or so Monkey Coffin. Will add mucho stuffing of course. Working a half space F3 of 42 Hz or a bit lower if it can be done. True target efficiency of 88 dbw or so from 45 Hz to 15 Khz. Usable output in a typical residential environment from 32 Hz assuming a 12"-24" distance from the rear of the enclosure to the rear wall and a woofer center distance of around 20" off the floor.
12" woofer, 2" dome mid, basic 1" silk dome tweeter. As simple of passive Xover that channels Butterworth and or LR 2nd order acoustic. Will require Zobels and traps Oh My too!
So out there in "you will find many faults with the above" universe, what do you think?
John Many years ago I proposed a DIY Audio Reference 3-Way as a way of comparing designs and as an adjunct to rabbitz classic posts on the DIY reference 2-way and it never got off the ground.
I like the idea very much but with the mid being 4" rather than a 2" dome.
I think I proposed the El-Cheapo Peerless 12" stamped frame woofer, but in a Q=0.8 sealed box but it was quite a while ago and my Old Timers disease has kicked in
I like the idea very much but with the mid being 4" rather than a 2" dome.
I think I proposed the El-Cheapo Peerless 12" stamped frame woofer, but in a Q=0.8 sealed box but it was quite a while ago and my Old Timers disease has kicked in
I built the Statement monitors .. and they are not what the OP is looking for. I did not like the mids at all. The Statement II might be a better option .. but I have not heard them.
Yeah I kind of figured that the statements weren't for me. I was considering the the Jim holtz finalists, but I couldn't find any impressions that specifically mentioned them being forgiving. I've noticed that many people out there have very different auditory priorities. One guys rock speaker means big bass and sizzling treble... Wheras for me, I want to be able to crank up the music a little and without fatigue, and still maintain coherency when electric guitars are wailing away. I've come close with a few speakers, but it seems many builds with high end drivers get used to make an accurate forward sounds. I want some low distortion speakers with a slight warmth.
Sound like you have some interesting ideas. Those ar3rs look quite sexy. What do you guys think of the builds I linked in my original post?
John I rather like what that cheap Peerless could in a 60 litre sealed box according to my program.
10 watts is About 100dB at 60Hz and the -10dB point is a decent 30Hz and the top end might be smooth enough to mate with a small dome around 500Hz
I'll be very interested to see what you come up with even if I never build it
10 watts is About 100dB at 60Hz and the -10dB point is a decent 30Hz and the top end might be smooth enough to mate with a small dome around 500Hz
I'll be very interested to see what you come up with even if I never build it
Haha yeah, loved the book when I last read it, and used it as an online name. Kinda just stuck. I haven't read the book in years though. Good catch!
It's not that I want a subdued high end, I just prefer one that isn't etched or hard. Too defined or piercing. The area that bothers me more is the upper mid/low treble. I primarily only buy neutral speakers. I have the JBL LSR305 on my desktop and they sound balanced top to bottom and pretty much my entire music collection sounds right. I had a pair of Revel F206 and even though it measures great in a listening window, the horizontal off axis doesn't really descend that smoothly, and it maintains an elevated response in the 2-3khz region. On much of my music is sounded fine, but the odd bad recording almost had a resonant quality in that region, kinda makes me the think the woofer or treble was going into breakup.
I definitely wan't a 3way, as finding room for subs in the future is questionable at best and I want full range sound.
I definitely wan't a 3way, as finding room for subs in the future is questionable at best and I want full range sound.
One of my better builds was actually a great big 2.5.
The cost of the large low resistant coil to make it work was quite high tho. I started out making the Audio Reference 2-Way and got sidetracked
Vifa P-13 + Vifa D-27
Then I decided to add the Vifa P-26 I had on the shelf.
One coil and one capacitor and as long as it isn't pushed to hard the sound was really very good.
They are now Bi-Amped and they handle more power and still sound good. Good sound doesn't have to be complicated in the XO. I can't remember who helped be with the box simulation tho.
The cost of the large low resistant coil to make it work was quite high tho. I started out making the Audio Reference 2-Way and got sidetracked
Vifa P-13 + Vifa D-27
Then I decided to add the Vifa P-26 I had on the shelf.
One coil and one capacitor and as long as it isn't pushed to hard the sound was really very good.
They are now Bi-Amped and they handle more power and still sound good. Good sound doesn't have to be complicated in the XO. I can't remember who helped be with the box simulation tho.
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