And happy to answer any questions or lend any support, just reach out. It was a fun project, and the speakers are fantastic.
I really like how people are making this design their own, with thoughtful variations and excellent craftsmanship.
There is not a reason in the world why you can't do this, other than a low ceiling.
Thanks Poseidon!
I also think it's neat how this design lends itself to small variations. Balthazarp's version looks quite different than yours, and mine is another version all based on the same base design. I still have my reservations about the minidsp unit possessing hardware that is good enough to do these speakers justice, but it's extremely cool that you can just make alterations to the active crossover to account for these design changes. My version will also have some removable wings that will fit in the open areas of the bass drivers to see what kind of bass extension I can get. I'm also toying around with the idea of making a single detachable side wing for the coaxial driver to see if having one wing will have a positive effect.
I should be getting a lot of work done on mine over the next few days. I might have a pair of working speakers by Monday or Tuesday. I'll need to familiarize myself with the MiniDSP software. Unfortunately, right after that I leave on Wednesday and will be out of town for 2 weeks.
To heck with the speakers, look at that amazing shop!!
Ok, so the speakers are looking pretty damn sweet as well.
Were the baffle angle variations driven by aesthetic preference or by a hoped for performance gain?Thanks dayneger! Yes, my shop is my "happy place".
So the baffle angles are an adaptation of the original bitches brew design that, as far as I know, was originally done by balthazarp on this forum. He has a picture of his speakers posted over on the Ultimate open baffle gallery on page 211. I took inspiration from the original design and balthazarp's adaption and mixed in some of my own design ideas to come up with the version you're seeing. As far as the baffle angles are concerned, first, I just think it looks cool. But second, I'm very sensitive to vertical off axis changes in the tweeter. The original design had the tweeter tilted back at 10 degrees (Perry has since said he would recommend a 5 degree tilt instead of the original 10) and the center of that coaxial driver is about 42". By angling the bottom 2 drivers as well as reducing the spacing between drivers to an absolute minimum I shave off about 1.25" off the tweeter height. But probably more importantly for me, the tweeter is now facing straight ahead instead of tilted back. I've never heard the original design so I have no idea if this is any kind of an improvement. Maybe it's worse. But for me it was worth it to try this for the potential benefit - plus I just like the aesthetic as I said.
I also built removable crossover boards which will house some Neutrik Speakon chassis mount connectors for the speaker cables.
The baffles are super rough from the drum sander in these photos. They will look quite different once they are all sanded up and finish is applied.
So the baffle angles are an adaptation of the original bitches brew design that, as far as I know, was originally done by balthazarp on this forum. He has a picture of his speakers posted over on the Ultimate open baffle gallery on page 211. I took inspiration from the original design and balthazarp's adaption and mixed in some of my own design ideas to come up with the version you're seeing. As far as the baffle angles are concerned, first, I just think it looks cool. But second, I'm very sensitive to vertical off axis changes in the tweeter. The original design had the tweeter tilted back at 10 degrees (Perry has since said he would recommend a 5 degree tilt instead of the original 10) and the center of that coaxial driver is about 42". By angling the bottom 2 drivers as well as reducing the spacing between drivers to an absolute minimum I shave off about 1.25" off the tweeter height. But probably more importantly for me, the tweeter is now facing straight ahead instead of tilted back. I've never heard the original design so I have no idea if this is any kind of an improvement. Maybe it's worse. But for me it was worth it to try this for the potential benefit - plus I just like the aesthetic as I said.
I also built removable crossover boards which will house some Neutrik Speakon chassis mount connectors for the speaker cables.
The baffles are super rough from the drum sander in these photos. They will look quite different once they are all sanded up and finish is applied.
Excellent! Following with interest. Lots of nice ideas in that thread. Looks like I’m accidentally incorporating some of the ideas.
Beautiful! Inspiring!
How dare you anticipate my next question? I feel as though part of my unique agency as an individual has been untimely stripped!!
Jk, of course. Feel free to ignore my feeble attempts at humor.I do wonder whether the 10" Radian 5210 would blend better overall, or end up not be as great in the midrange as the 8" 5208... at least when paired with something like the SB 150B350, which seems to represent amazing value for an OB mid/woofer.
One of the aspects I enjoy about your project descriptions is designing around constraints. I've developed physical products (but not audio gear) professionally for more than 25 years and deeply appreciate the duality of inspiration and PIA inherent in said constraints.
A complex constraint system for a future project could be:
1. Assume monopole bass below around 50 Hz via 2-4 sealed servo subwoofers
2. Allow the power and cost of DSP to enable a vector toward the highest possible performance
3. Target a (relatively) modest initiation cost that can be upgraded for higher performance over time, if needed
4. Design for a more ephemeral, confidently there but visually lighter/less "line of sight-dominant" aesthetic than rectangularish slabs afford
5. Retain the Constant Directivity aspiration to the extent reasonable given 1-4
We'll just state right now that I have absolutely zero personal interest in the above product requirements document whatsoever!
Perry, thank you for all this great info on these speakers. Using a Flex 8 and tri-amping looks like a nice way to go. Learning how to use IIR and FIR filters seems straight-forward with a few sites providing tutorials.
Two questions:
1) I did a preliminary search in a local slab supplier and found a beautiful pair of kiln-dried walnut slabs, but they may be a little short. The ends are rough and have a couple of splits, but the manager said he or I could fill the splits with epoxy. Just how low can the center-line of the Radian coaxials be and still give great sound?
2) The Radian coaxial Be do cost quite a bit to get a pair of speakers built. I noticed Radian recently added a line of coaxials with ribbon planar tweeters here. They seem like they may have an excellent smooth sound, but I cannot find anyone who has used them yet to verify. The 10 inch LF only cost about $50 more per driver, so the 10 inch coaxial seems the way to go. Your thoughts?
Two questions:
1) I did a preliminary search in a local slab supplier and found a beautiful pair of kiln-dried walnut slabs, but they may be a little short. The ends are rough and have a couple of splits, but the manager said he or I could fill the splits with epoxy. Just how low can the center-line of the Radian coaxials be and still give great sound?
2) The Radian coaxial Be do cost quite a bit to get a pair of speakers built. I noticed Radian recently added a line of coaxials with ribbon planar tweeters here. They seem like they may have an excellent smooth sound, but I cannot find anyone who has used them yet to verify. The 10 inch LF only cost about $50 more per driver, so the 10 inch coaxial seems the way to go. Your thoughts?
1) If you stick to the design as drawn you could move the center of the coax down to about 28" off the floor, making the front baffle ~35" high. I wouldn't make it much shorter than that.
2) The coaxials with ribbon planars are probably great drivers, the caution that I have from looking at the specs is that the off-axis dispersion above 10KHz is not nearly as good as the compression drivers. Seems to fall rapidly beyond 15 degrees off axis.
3) The Radian 5210 is a great way to go. Obviously will require some tweaking of the crossover.
2) The coaxials with ribbon planars are probably great drivers, the caution that I have from looking at the specs is that the off-axis dispersion above 10KHz is not nearly as good as the compression drivers. Seems to fall rapidly beyond 15 degrees off axis.
3) The Radian 5210 is a great way to go. Obviously will require some tweaking of the crossover.
I think a 5210 on a baffle that becomes narrower at the top (with corresponding EQ boost 150-500Hz) will blend very well with the 15OB350 and handle the EQ boost better than the 5208, and be more visually to your liking.
Ok, it's Tuesday... waiting impatiently for your update before you leave town!
And still lusting after your shop.
Haha, thanks dayneger! I spent all day yesterday sanding . Both speakers are almost done, but not quite! I won't be home until Christmas and then there's... Christmas. So I'll probably be able to finish them the week of Christmas. I'm bringing the crossover boards with me while I'm away and will be working on soldering up the crossover networks to be making SOME kind of progress while I'm gone.
As an aside - looking at these B&C drivers, they use the spring loaded connectors. That seems an odd choice for a high end driver. I'd like to be able to solder to them, especially since my hook up wire is solid core. Anybody ever disassembled the spring loaded connector before and somehow soldered to it?
. Both speakers are almost done, but not quite! I won't be home until Christmas and then there's... Christmas. So I'll probably be able to finish them the week of Christmas. I'm bringing the crossover boards with me while I'm away and will be working on soldering up the crossover networks to be making SOME kind of progress while I'm gone.As an aside - looking at these B&C drivers, they use the spring loaded connectors. That seems an odd choice for a high end driver. I'd like to be able to solder to them, especially since my hook up wire is solid core. Anybody ever disassembled the spring loaded connector before and somehow soldered to it?