Hi
I currently use 2x 15" bass bin with my horn midrange (50hz-500hz, sealed, Q=0.5)
Just ordered 4 more of the same 15" to upgrade to 4x 15" per side.
I intend to use sealed again of about the same Q
I know that for subwoofer use (80hz and below), using push pull arrangement will reduce distortion by about 6db.
Using push pull in the 100hz-500hz range, is it beneficial still?
I'm pretty sure that I'll lose efficiency from the backward driver. (+ diffraction issue)
Is the distortion reduction in the lower frequency worth the drawback ?
Most pro-audio company do use 4x15" forward facing driver.
Klipsch do use "diamond pattern" arrangement
On the other side,TAD is the only one using push pull arrangement. (see pic)
They also match the cone distance thru baffle offset ( I can replicate this)
Any opinion? anybody tried that already for my intended frequency range?
Would diamond or square pattern offer any advantage over each other?
I currently use 2x 15" bass bin with my horn midrange (50hz-500hz, sealed, Q=0.5)
Just ordered 4 more of the same 15" to upgrade to 4x 15" per side.
I intend to use sealed again of about the same Q
I know that for subwoofer use (80hz and below), using push pull arrangement will reduce distortion by about 6db.
Using push pull in the 100hz-500hz range, is it beneficial still?
I'm pretty sure that I'll lose efficiency from the backward driver. (+ diffraction issue)
Is the distortion reduction in the lower frequency worth the drawback ?
Most pro-audio company do use 4x15" forward facing driver.
Klipsch do use "diamond pattern" arrangement
On the other side,TAD is the only one using push pull arrangement. (see pic)
They also match the cone distance thru baffle offset ( I can replicate this)
Any opinion? anybody tried that already for my intended frequency range?
Would diamond or square pattern offer any advantage over each other?
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My experience has been that push-pull works the very best, in only the bass. matter of fact, push-pull, slot-load is superb.
From 100Hz/and/up, I would only use conventional mount, but pay very close attention to the construction of the baffle board and enclosure walls. The range between 350-700hz, is where almost all cabinets revealed their nasty colourations.
From 100Hz/and/up, I would only use conventional mount, but pay very close attention to the construction of the baffle board and enclosure walls. The range between 350-700hz, is where almost all cabinets revealed their nasty colourations.
Hi, etalon
I use push / pull in my 4 way horn system, but only for the subwoofers. I agree with Scott L. about the possible problems with nearly all boxes in the critical midbass. I use a pair of Altec 515b's in parallel in a 70hz. front loaded horn to cover 60hz. (in my room) to 450hz. There is no substitute for a PROPER midbass horn IMHO !!! I use a pair (per channel) in push / pull of TC Sounds LMS 5400's 18" drivers in a sealed 9.5 cu foot sealed cabinet. For power, I use a pair of Crown I-Tech 5000HD amplifiers strapped to mono blocks. These amps have built in crossover, DSP, and MANY other software features a true pro amplifier needs. This saves me a seperate crossover, DSP, cables etc. The result, is my subwoofers are flat from 12hz. to 60hz. and roll off at 48db per octave and is well over 100++ spl at 12hz. I looked at all the options and this worked out the best. My low mids are field coil Classic Audio 2" beryllium drivers in
Sierra Brooks solid wood 250hz. tractrix horn which cover 450hz. to 5.5khz. The upper mids are covered by a Jeffrey Jackson 1.5" beryllium field coil driver in a 600hz. wood tractrix horn that I made which covers 5.5khz. to 10khz. The 10khz. and up are covered by a TAD ET-703 tweeter in a custom horn that I made. All crossovers are 6db. passive from low mids and up. After 40+ years of many different audio systems, I reached a happy place !!!
I use push / pull in my 4 way horn system, but only for the subwoofers. I agree with Scott L. about the possible problems with nearly all boxes in the critical midbass. I use a pair of Altec 515b's in parallel in a 70hz. front loaded horn to cover 60hz. (in my room) to 450hz. There is no substitute for a PROPER midbass horn IMHO !!! I use a pair (per channel) in push / pull of TC Sounds LMS 5400's 18" drivers in a sealed 9.5 cu foot sealed cabinet. For power, I use a pair of Crown I-Tech 5000HD amplifiers strapped to mono blocks. These amps have built in crossover, DSP, and MANY other software features a true pro amplifier needs. This saves me a seperate crossover, DSP, cables etc. The result, is my subwoofers are flat from 12hz. to 60hz. and roll off at 48db per octave and is well over 100++ spl at 12hz. I looked at all the options and this worked out the best. My low mids are field coil Classic Audio 2" beryllium drivers in
Sierra Brooks solid wood 250hz. tractrix horn which cover 450hz. to 5.5khz. The upper mids are covered by a Jeffrey Jackson 1.5" beryllium field coil driver in a 600hz. wood tractrix horn that I made which covers 5.5khz. to 10khz. The 10khz. and up are covered by a TAD ET-703 tweeter in a custom horn that I made. All crossovers are 6db. passive from low mids and up. After 40+ years of many different audio systems, I reached a happy place !!!
hottatoo,
Sound like a great system you have, I would love to go experience it.
I find surprising the 5.5k-10k range for an upper mid CD, seem under-used to me. I understand that most 2" exit compression driver have issue above 7khz and cutting at ~5.5-6khz is usually the best option. (I do to, I have Radian 950PB) But it seem like a odd choice of crossover for the upper-mid, is the ET-703 not able to play cleanly down to 5.5khz?
I know my Beyma CP22 can do down to 6khz very well.
-----------------------
Back to original subject.
I've really considered horns but they seem very compromised for doing such 50-500hz range without truncated mouth or 90degree fold. (my multiple 18" could go to 65hz if needed) but the horn required is still very big.
My last simulation lead to dual 12" similar to Volvotreter conical 77hz mid-bass front horn. I was thinking of the B&C 12PE32. dual 15" was struggling to reach 500hz.
I think I would need to hear mid bass horn before jumping to the bandwagon. I heard Altec VOTT at a friend place but with original crossover(and original caps inside...), without any surprise, it failed to impress me.
Do have a pair of precision device PD154 sitting around but simulation aren't exciting. I could give a try to the Quarter pie here, easy weekend build.
Build a Quarter Pie Bass Horn (easy) - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
My 4 new 15" are already ordered so I'm committed to the 4x15" in the short term.
Because of multiple floor bounce, diamond pattern seem like the optimal solution as it spread the arrival time and create a smoother response.
Sound like a great system you have, I would love to go experience it.
I find surprising the 5.5k-10k range for an upper mid CD, seem under-used to me. I understand that most 2" exit compression driver have issue above 7khz and cutting at ~5.5-6khz is usually the best option. (I do to, I have Radian 950PB) But it seem like a odd choice of crossover for the upper-mid, is the ET-703 not able to play cleanly down to 5.5khz?
I know my Beyma CP22 can do down to 6khz very well.
-----------------------
Back to original subject.
I've really considered horns but they seem very compromised for doing such 50-500hz range without truncated mouth or 90degree fold. (my multiple 18" could go to 65hz if needed) but the horn required is still very big.
My last simulation lead to dual 12" similar to Volvotreter conical 77hz mid-bass front horn. I was thinking of the B&C 12PE32. dual 15" was struggling to reach 500hz.
I think I would need to hear mid bass horn before jumping to the bandwagon. I heard Altec VOTT at a friend place but with original crossover(and original caps inside...), without any surprise, it failed to impress me.
Do have a pair of precision device PD154 sitting around but simulation aren't exciting. I could give a try to the Quarter pie here, easy weekend build.
Build a Quarter Pie Bass Horn (easy) - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
My 4 new 15" are already ordered so I'm committed to the 4x15" in the short term.
Because of multiple floor bounce, diamond pattern seem like the optimal solution as it spread the arrival time and create a smoother response.
done and playing!
~260 pounds per cabinet.
-90 pounds 1/4" thick metal plate on top cover, double thickness on bottom.
-double front and rear baffle. Plywood.
-plenty of internal bracing
-serial/parallel wiring arrangement (8ohm, 105db efficiency)
-Sealed, of course
-initial crossover actively set at 50hz-500hz (as per previous dual 15")
WOW, subjectively much better than the previous dual 15" version I had.
bass doesn't "seem to trail the compression driver" like it did. It just does dynamic effortlessly with assurance, drums are the most realistic I ever archived in my years in the hobby.
I remembered from single to dual 15, the step in perceived dynamic was important, going quad bring it up more step, almost tempted to go octal
Will need to tweak DSP and will eventually post measurement on my website.
Thanks all for your reply.
~260 pounds per cabinet.
-90 pounds 1/4" thick metal plate on top cover, double thickness on bottom.
-double front and rear baffle. Plywood.
-plenty of internal bracing
-serial/parallel wiring arrangement (8ohm, 105db efficiency)
-Sealed, of course
-initial crossover actively set at 50hz-500hz (as per previous dual 15")
WOW, subjectively much better than the previous dual 15" version I had.
bass doesn't "seem to trail the compression driver" like it did. It just does dynamic effortlessly with assurance, drums are the most realistic I ever archived in my years in the hobby.
I remembered from single to dual 15, the step in perceived dynamic was important, going quad bring it up more step, almost tempted to go octal
Will need to tweak DSP and will eventually post measurement on my website.
Thanks all for your reply.
It shows on my browser.
That is strange, not sure what to do here.
here a quick link
new quad 15" bass bin - Fane 15XS colossus prime (4x15")
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