I'm jaded enough to still want local, decent quality copies of the music that I particularly like. But it seems time to start looking at downloads - instead of physical disks being bought and posted for just a single use (when being ripped). For me, that means legal but DRM-free downloads (where the artist sees some return), in at least CD-quality lossless formats. However, as far as I can tell, the world isn't swamped with options, since most online stuff is about streaming or casting.
The best I've so far found that I 'believe' fits the bill is Qobuz, where you can download in CD quality, at about normal CD prices. They also offer higher-resolution versions of many, which I don't need or especially want but could find attractive if they had less awful compression than the standard CD has.
So, just wondering how people have got on with the Qobuz downloads, whether the hi-res versions are better produced, or if there are other alternatives that I should consider?
Thanks!
The best I've so far found that I 'believe' fits the bill is Qobuz, where you can download in CD quality, at about normal CD prices. They also offer higher-resolution versions of many, which I don't need or especially want but could find attractive if they had less awful compression than the standard CD has.
So, just wondering how people have got on with the Qobuz downloads, whether the hi-res versions are better produced, or if there are other alternatives that I should consider?
Thanks!
Well I took out a 'sublime' subscription and so far am fairly pleased; lest I forget, my initial impressions are as follows: It mostly seems to work through a browser, which as a linux user is handy; some competitors do have linux apps but from past experience they don't always get the best support, and many services don't even aknowledge linux (frustrating when their app is needed for proper functionality). I've also had issues with some other services via browsers due to buggy DRM compatibility; no problems with qobuz.
It is a pity that only hi-res downloads seem to be discounted, as I don't especially need higher than cd-quality and in some cases they don't actually have hi-res versions of albums. However there is usually still a small saving over the CD price, whic should more than pay for itself over the year (and it'll be nice to avoid having to rip disks). I'm also surprised to find myself using their streaming more than expected, so that adds significantly to the value. It is a relief to avoid all those annoying, repetitive adverts of the free streaming services I've used before, and even better to hear the music free from audible added loudness/compression and other artefacts, which some add. I genuinely struggle with many radio services (online or terrestrial) for example, which make everything wearingly loud and compressed. Though I think other services (like spotify) might be better for music discovery; I'll probably still use bandcamp and other sources for that in any case though.
Though I still need to re-tag the downloaded files, if I want them consistent and as I'd wish. I suppose I could re-tag my existing library instead, if I take to Qobuz seriously. And when streaming, I've yet to find a way to normalise the volume across tracks - this option might exist but I can't immediately find it; maybe for the best when listening seriously, since some methods of doing that are better than others, but it would be handy to have/find for when just playing background music.
It is a pity that only hi-res downloads seem to be discounted, as I don't especially need higher than cd-quality and in some cases they don't actually have hi-res versions of albums. However there is usually still a small saving over the CD price, whic should more than pay for itself over the year (and it'll be nice to avoid having to rip disks). I'm also surprised to find myself using their streaming more than expected, so that adds significantly to the value. It is a relief to avoid all those annoying, repetitive adverts of the free streaming services I've used before, and even better to hear the music free from audible added loudness/compression and other artefacts, which some add. I genuinely struggle with many radio services (online or terrestrial) for example, which make everything wearingly loud and compressed. Though I think other services (like spotify) might be better for music discovery; I'll probably still use bandcamp and other sources for that in any case though.
Though I still need to re-tag the downloaded files, if I want them consistent and as I'd wish. I suppose I could re-tag my existing library instead, if I take to Qobuz seriously. And when streaming, I've yet to find a way to normalise the volume across tracks - this option might exist but I can't immediately find it; maybe for the best when listening seriously, since some methods of doing that are better than others, but it would be handy to have/find for when just playing background music.
I use qobuz sublime on windows and find it pretty good. You can download without buying, but can only play via the app in that case as it is a flac in a qobuz package file so can't be played natively, even though windows now has full flac support.
Remasters are a mixed bag. Some are dire (Brothers in arms) and some are excellent (REM - Monster 25th anniversary remix) but that is more down to the record companies than qobuz AFAIK.
For me there are some tracks that seem to sound a little better in hi res, but at everyday listening levels rather than slightly higher levels you might use to catch some of the more subtle details that you may miss at lower levels, there isn't much in it and CD is good enough.
Qobuz doesn't always make the hi-res versions available.
I ripped all my cds to wma lossless back when I was using windows media centre, sadly NLA. I now use the new Windows Media Player and JRiver now that Groove has been retired alongside qobuz.
HTH 😊
Remasters are a mixed bag. Some are dire (Brothers in arms) and some are excellent (REM - Monster 25th anniversary remix) but that is more down to the record companies than qobuz AFAIK.
For me there are some tracks that seem to sound a little better in hi res, but at everyday listening levels rather than slightly higher levels you might use to catch some of the more subtle details that you may miss at lower levels, there isn't much in it and CD is good enough.
Qobuz doesn't always make the hi-res versions available.
I ripped all my cds to wma lossless back when I was using windows media centre, sadly NLA. I now use the new Windows Media Player and JRiver now that Groove has been retired alongside qobuz.
HTH 😊
Thanks, that is quite similar to my experience so far too. Though I wasn't aware of the offline option with the app, that could certainly be a limitation for those who can't use it. Happily, I only want to either stream online or buy; so for me personally the browser seems to work adequately. Possibly there would also be a better streaming experience with the app, but it isn't available for linux so I can't say.
Yes, I've learned to view remasters with suspicion; some are much worse than the original. It isn't a qobuz thing, I agree, in fact sometimes they have both versions which helps to compare.
I'm yet to decide about their Hi-Res versions. I don't really need hi-res, but it could be a mild advantage if all else were equal, and with membership is also cheaper (where available), so it seems good. But (as with remasters) I presume the hi-res version could potentially be better or worse than the CD-quality version, in terms of production. So far, those I've heard have been good; but I don't know if that is always so.
Yes, I've learned to view remasters with suspicion; some are much worse than the original. It isn't a qobuz thing, I agree, in fact sometimes they have both versions which helps to compare.
I'm yet to decide about their Hi-Res versions. I don't really need hi-res, but it could be a mild advantage if all else were equal, and with membership is also cheaper (where available), so it seems good. But (as with remasters) I presume the hi-res version could potentially be better or worse than the CD-quality version, in terms of production. So far, those I've heard have been good; but I don't know if that is always so.
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Though.. as I spend more time with their catalogue, I'm a bit surprised by how many albums (even some quite classic and well regarded ones) aren't available in their original format; available 'only' in a remastered version. Which can go both ways in terms of audio quality, but if you have any sentimental attachment to the true original release then it is not good at all.
I wonder if this is a result of their hi-res aspirations; originals not being available to them in hi-res, perhaps. Which can be unfortunate as I'd like the original as an option, even if it was only available in CD quality. Especially where the remaster is worse.
Kev06:
As off-topic as this is, I wanted to thank you. Your problem finding redbook-level decent quality downloadable music at a reasonable price is something I (and undoubtedly many others) struggle with as well. I'd looked at Qobuz in the past and wasn't willing to spend the money on a music streaming service; I want to possess the music I care about, not lease it. My CD collection was ripped to my NAS some time ago and I've ripped my way through several friends' collections as well. The library system in my area has a reasonably vast selection of CDs which I've also plundered to nice effect and I've downloaded a ton of music from Bandcamp (a wonderful service). In general, I'm frustrated by the download prices for much of the music I covet -- often the download price is about the same as (if not more than) the price of simply buying the corresponding CD, which makes absolutely no sense. Honestly, there ought to be a better solution that rewards the artists at a reasonable price to the consumer.
But here's the thing: sometimes there's a remarkable bargain lurking out in the wild. For example, in 2021 Cherry Records released a 15 CD set of seven concerts Be Bop Deluxe played in the Spring of 1977. The band released Live! In the Air Age, a recording of one of those seven concerts and one of my favorite albums of all time (46 years and counting) soon afterwards. I didn't buy Cherry Records' 15 CD set because of the expense (in excess of 150 USD) and until now was terribly conflicted by that choice. Your post caused me to look at Qobuz again and I discovered they were offering the entire 15 CD set for under 10 USD. That was a no-brainer for me. Absent your lament I would have missed this opportunity, so thank you, thank you, thank you!
Please forgive the off-topic rant, and I hope you enjoy Qobuz. More importantly, good luck with your quest!
Regards,
Scott
As off-topic as this is, I wanted to thank you. Your problem finding redbook-level decent quality downloadable music at a reasonable price is something I (and undoubtedly many others) struggle with as well. I'd looked at Qobuz in the past and wasn't willing to spend the money on a music streaming service; I want to possess the music I care about, not lease it. My CD collection was ripped to my NAS some time ago and I've ripped my way through several friends' collections as well. The library system in my area has a reasonably vast selection of CDs which I've also plundered to nice effect and I've downloaded a ton of music from Bandcamp (a wonderful service). In general, I'm frustrated by the download prices for much of the music I covet -- often the download price is about the same as (if not more than) the price of simply buying the corresponding CD, which makes absolutely no sense. Honestly, there ought to be a better solution that rewards the artists at a reasonable price to the consumer.
But here's the thing: sometimes there's a remarkable bargain lurking out in the wild. For example, in 2021 Cherry Records released a 15 CD set of seven concerts Be Bop Deluxe played in the Spring of 1977. The band released Live! In the Air Age, a recording of one of those seven concerts and one of my favorite albums of all time (46 years and counting) soon afterwards. I didn't buy Cherry Records' 15 CD set because of the expense (in excess of 150 USD) and until now was terribly conflicted by that choice. Your post caused me to look at Qobuz again and I discovered they were offering the entire 15 CD set for under 10 USD. That was a no-brainer for me. Absent your lament I would have missed this opportunity, so thank you, thank you, thank you!
Please forgive the off-topic rant, and I hope you enjoy Qobuz. More importantly, good luck with your quest!
Regards,
Scott
Besides Qobuz, I have used a couple of different download sites:
https://www.hdtracks.com/
https://www.prestomusic.com
Presto Music has had specific versions of classical albums I was looking for that Qobuz did not.
The CSO has started offering downloads direct on their site: https://symphonystore.com/collections/cso-resound
Also, Paul McGowan of PSAudio started a hi-res label called Octave and sells via their website: https://www.psaudio.com/collections/octave-records
This is all original recordings at the PSAudio studio with an attention to making the highest accurate recordings they can make.
https://www.hdtracks.com/
https://www.prestomusic.com
Presto Music has had specific versions of classical albums I was looking for that Qobuz did not.
The CSO has started offering downloads direct on their site: https://symphonystore.com/collections/cso-resound
Also, Paul McGowan of PSAudio started a hi-res label called Octave and sells via their website: https://www.psaudio.com/collections/octave-records
This is all original recordings at the PSAudio studio with an attention to making the highest accurate recordings they can make.
Thank you, I shall look at those! Some services are region/country-specific so I'll also have to check that too.
It is curious how the search for decent quality is inadvertently widening my music horizons. It can take me into genres that I might not have previously been big on, just because they don't (e.g.) over-compress the life out of it. Classical is certainly one of those, in many cases.
It is curious how the search for decent quality is inadvertently widening my music horizons. It can take me into genres that I might not have previously been big on, just because they don't (e.g.) over-compress the life out of it. Classical is certainly one of those, in many cases.
Not at all, we seem to be on a similar kind of journey.
Qobuz sometimes has the answer, and can be very good. The download you get is properly usable - neither degraded/lossy or restricted in how you can use it (DRM etc), so I can play it on any of my devices. Just as IMO one should be fully entitled to, having paid to use the thing.
I'm a bit disappointed by how many qobuz albums are 'only' available as remasters though, which can be good but aren't necessarily. Maybe my subscription was a little hasty; it looks like I'll still need to shop elsewhere when I don't like their remaster, and similarly I'll still be spending time on bandcamp etc. so qobuz won't be a one-stop shop. Probably I'll buy the back-log of albums on my wish-list in the first year, and then consider whether to renew or not for next year.
Yes, I've noticed one or two bargains too. Though in general, buying and posting physical CDs seems to be no more expensive, and is often cheaper. That seems odd to me, but I guess many people just rent and stream the music, making the market for actual downloads relatively small.
In fact it concerns me that not many services offer them by this point; I hope it lasts and I want to support it. I don't think CDs will be a long term answer, as there are starting to be some releases I want that are soft-copy only. And I'm too jaded to rely on renting/streaming music, for anything other than ephemeral purposes.
Sorry for also straying a little bit off of the OP's original topic. FWIW, I've used Qobuz since 2017 (I had an overseas account). Over time, and more rapidly as of late; Qobuz has also started to move much more toward the Hi-Res offerings only for streaming. I assume this is to drive people toward their higher cost subscriptions... in my opinion needlessly.
As an example, just this very morning, the original mastering of Jackson Browne's Saturate Before Using is now gone... replaced now by the "Hi-Res" 2022 mastering. Now, in fairness, I have not listened to or analyzed the 2022 mastering compared to the original, but I have to think that they will have done the typical "magic" of stomping the dynamic range to a pancake.
So... get those old masters (while you can) downloaded or ripped and preserve the music...
As an example, just this very morning, the original mastering of Jackson Browne's Saturate Before Using is now gone... replaced now by the "Hi-Res" 2022 mastering. Now, in fairness, I have not listened to or analyzed the 2022 mastering compared to the original, but I have to think that they will have done the typical "magic" of stomping the dynamic range to a pancake.
So... get those old masters (while you can) downloaded or ripped and preserve the music...
Interesting to hear, thanks. I may have joined it a little too late, then. But in any case, if this is an ongoing trend it may not be the answer for the future that I was hoping. Thankfully not all re-masters are bad, so definitely worth checking, but they can be quite disappointing on occasion.
Perhaps it is time to buy existing albums of everything I particularly want. Then it would be just future releases of concern, and those can be evaluated as and when they appear; wearingly over-compressed music just won't make it to my collection, or even be streamed.
Perhaps it is time to buy existing albums of everything I particularly want. Then it would be just future releases of concern, and those can be evaluated as and when they appear; wearingly over-compressed music just won't make it to my collection, or even be streamed.
Like you pointed out, CDs (at least used) are relatively cheap as folks are dumping/cycling them. I had a period where I hit up Amazon, Goodwill and other markets to buy and burn. Been playing with the hi-res stuff lately so haven't been exercising that strategy. Never did find a place I could buy in bulk to save on shipping costs.
Yes, I've done the used CD thing before, too. It works well, provided the disk is in decent condition, and makes a lot of financial sense for a single use. Just seems a bit old fashioned by this point, and I'm not actually averse to higher res even though red-book quality is fine, so it seemed worth exploring soft-copy downloads.
They aren't turning out to be all that I wished, so probably I'll do both; download the hi-res where the remaster is reasonable, but when not then I'll buy the CD.
They aren't turning out to be all that I wished, so probably I'll do both; download the hi-res where the remaster is reasonable, but when not then I'll buy the CD.