So - what are you doing? There are a few ways to get an optimal setup.
Using delays is the basic principle of every double bass array but can also help with multi sub setups. You can simulate and play around in REW with that and it's a good starting point for further measurements.
4 subs can give already great distribution - horizontally! When you can use 8 subs and stack 2 of them vertically like you do in an array (1/4 of room height) you also fighted the first vertical modes.
I use single arrays in 2 of my rooms and you only have to deal with the length room modes any more. Get a good listening postion and some EQ and it sounds really good and precise (down to 20Hz).
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Delay is different for a double bass array, since it is used in the strict sense. Conventional multi-subs work in a space which is folded on itself. Delay is most interesting for it's phase variation. Once you have even sound around the room, the steady state flat response indicates flat phase will be the result.
Interesting subject.
For me stereo subs are good, mono or multiple subs degrade the stereo image. I’m talking about for a serious listening system. For a desktop satellite + sub system mono sub is fine.
Many large venue recordings have significant LF stereo content that conveys a great sense of the actual space where the music was recorded - and I enjoy that. Good LF stereo is needed for that realistic sense of space.
For me stereo subs are good, mono or multiple subs degrade the stereo image. I’m talking about for a serious listening system. For a desktop satellite + sub system mono sub is fine.
Many large venue recordings have significant LF stereo content that conveys a great sense of the actual space where the music was recorded - and I enjoy that. Good LF stereo is needed for that realistic sense of space.
Concussive/impact is mid bass…..this shouldn’t come from subs…….you’re hearing the volume shelf from 100-200hz which is likely 3-6db down from 100hz on downI've tried several different multiple sub setups, and with pretty good results as far as getting a smoother response and over a wider area....with more steady state type tones, etc. Ao an improvement.
But concussive transients get diminished, which I don't like.
So overall I'm not a fan of multiple subs.
The guy, Paul Hale, has a story about multiples, and quote that I feel sympatico with...."get the kick drum out of my butt"
BTW, he is 100% Toole/Olive, and makes much more sense about home audio than usually encountered...my2c.
This is where distance and decay matter….,1w 1 meter and such…..and the reason why flat measuring speakers sound like a$$. Use PeQ and manually boost 100-180hz….kick and snare live here.
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I have not met an engineer yet who mixes down bass below 100hz to stereo or even mid-side……your predisposition is messing with you……sorry.Interesting subject.
For me stereo subs are good, mono or multiple subs degrade the stereo image. I’m talking about for a serious listening system. For a desktop satellite + sub system mono sub is fine.
Many large venue recordings have significant LF stereo content that conveys a great sense of the actual space where the music was recorded - and I enjoy that. Good LF stereo is needed for that realistic sense of space.
Can you please tell us a few of these recordings? Would like to check it out on my system cause it's not common to do so!
Not quite sure what you mean here. Do you mean that all recordings are mono below 100 Hz? That is certainly not what I have found and I proved that years ago in a long lost thread about bass. (Maybe I can find it) Even Geddes had to agree. That’s why I like stereo all the way down, it’s in almost all stereo recordings.
However, by my testing, not everyone is very sensitive to the direction of bass, so multiple subs might not confuse LF imaging for some people.
For sure not! Cause of that I was asking about the recordings where you actually have "Stereo" low frequencies, would like to listen to the difference.
For sure it is! I’m trying to find that darn thread where I showed it. Thought I had bookmarked it, but noooo…. 
As far as I could determine, that old “all bass is mono” is either an old wives tale or a leftover of a long time ago.
I wish that I had a list of great stereo bass recordings for you, but I never made such a list. Just take any good classical orchestral recording and have a listen. The LF stereo room fingerprint can most easily be heard on large venue recordings like that.
I’ll post a link if I can find it, or start a new thread showing anyone how to test for stereo bass.
As far as I could determine, that old “all bass is mono” is either an old wives tale or a leftover of a long time ago.
I wish that I had a list of great stereo bass recordings for you, but I never made such a list. Just take any good classical orchestral recording and have a listen. The LF stereo room fingerprint can most easily be heard on large venue recordings like that.
I’ll post a link if I can find it, or start a new thread showing anyone how to test for stereo bass.
It's not this post, is it? - (EDIT: Better use the link in the next post.) https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-ear-really-localize-bass.247583/post-3750702
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This one is a good place to start
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-ear-really-localize-bass.247583/post-3748187
I don’t want to drag this thread OT, so I should take this to the old thread or another one.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-ear-really-localize-bass.247583/post-3748187
I don’t want to drag this thread OT, so I should take this to the old thread or another one.
It's been 11 years since I did those tests, so I need to revisit them and try some new things. Earl Geddes made a good point, how much difference does it take to make stereo. 1 or 2 dB isn't really of note. I need to look at that again and figure it out. And I was wrong about "all or most" recordings having stereo bass, a fair number do not have stereo bass. But many do, so that means that the "all bass is mono" idea has to be wrong.
I think it’s important to consider the individual source within the recording AND while a track in a multi track might be a stereo track, if it’s not panned to a degree left or right..….it’s neither mono no stereo…….it just is.
Recordings that can contain strong separation of SEPARATE low frequency content while exist, are the rare exception instead of the rule.
That and this being said……4 subs in question?…….feed a 2x4 DSP unit with a stereo pre out there you have it…issue resolved.
Recordings that can contain strong separation of SEPARATE low frequency content while exist, are the rare exception instead of the rule.
That and this being said……4 subs in question?…….feed a 2x4 DSP unit with a stereo pre out there you have it…issue resolved.
Genre dependent, perhaps. Certainly stereo classical recordings do contain strong LF separation. 1980s pop-rock, maybe not.
But if you can't hear it, then it doesn't matter to you.
I completely agree and I have tried it both ways for long time periods. I would never go back to mono subs on my serious listening system. Now I consider mixing L+R for a mono sub a form of "distortion" because the original signals have been changed in a way that was not intended by the artist/producer.... just my opinion based real experience. Your mileage may vary.Not quite sure what you mean here. Do you mean that all recordings are mono below 100 Hz? That is certainly not what I have found and I proved that years ago in a long lost thread about bass. (Maybe I can find it) Even Geddes had to agree. That’s why I like stereo all the way down, it’s in almost all stereo recordings.
However, by my testing, not everyone is very sensitive to the direction of bass, so multiple subs might not confuse LF imaging for some people.
Another benefit of having multiple subs is that some can be elevated on a stand while others can be on the floor. This helps to even out the vertical distribution. I have the two front subs on the floor and the two rear subs on 16" stands, which has made the bass levels very similar for both those who are sitting and standing. Not my idea but I tried it and it did make a nice improvement.
I have to strongly disagree with that.
Yes, mid bass helps define the hit by giving it an edge,
.......but the power of the hit most definitely comes from the sub.
As I'm involved in recording and mixing it matters for me also when nobody would hear itGenre dependent, perhaps. Certainly stereo classical recordings do contain strong LF separation. 1980s pop-rock, maybe not.
But if you can't hear it, then it doesn't matter to you.
With modern multitrack production you pan kick and bass center. 99,9%. And/or you make low frequencies mono, many mastering EQs have this option. It simply makes sense to do so.
Stereo recording techniques loose their directivity at low frequencies! XY, ORTF and many others have their mics pretty close together. Main mics for orchester recordings have some distance to the orchester, low frequency waves are long ... there should not be a significant level difference at the mics.
And time differences (AB technique) will also don't work any more at low frequencies. Maybe big AB ...
You will still localise your lower tuned instruments perfectly (cause all the higher frequencies of these instruments are perfectly shown in the stereo panorama) frequencies <80Hz ...
But I'm by far no expert in classical recording, only did a few during university and at live jobs. So I'm really interested if there is more spread at low frequencies as I thought and how much from it they left in recordings out there.