You're not giving us a lot to go on. You seem to want us to provide you an answer without facts.
How did you make payment, and what was agreed with the seller?
For gear like that, if I received it in that condition, it would be a full return / refund assuming I did not buy it for parts.
Ideas -
I recently received some gear that was likely damaged prior to shipping. The gear was described as like new condition, and the damage was not disclosed. I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt and assumed they didn't even know that it was damaged. I brought it to their attention. Had the seller not been exceptionally polite and offered a partial (I consider it very fair) refund even before I had determined whether I could fix it, I'd have likely returned the unit for a refund. It turned out I was able to fix it.
I think all there is to be said has been said, IMO.
If you paid using F&F or another method without direct recourse, consider it an expensive lesson. We can't force the person to give you your money back even if they're watching this thread (and they probably are). They clearly see no guilt/fault... what a shame.
How did you make payment, and what was agreed with the seller?
For gear like that, if I received it in that condition, it would be a full return / refund assuming I did not buy it for parts.
Ideas -
- Full refund and ship it back at their expense if they want it back to sell to someone else as parts.
- Agree with the seller that you will charge X amount per hour or a fixed amount + parts as required to repair it? If they agree, and you are not able to repair it, then that's on you.
I recently received some gear that was likely damaged prior to shipping. The gear was described as like new condition, and the damage was not disclosed. I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt and assumed they didn't even know that it was damaged. I brought it to their attention. Had the seller not been exceptionally polite and offered a partial (I consider it very fair) refund even before I had determined whether I could fix it, I'd have likely returned the unit for a refund. It turned out I was able to fix it.
I think all there is to be said has been said, IMO.
If you paid using F&F or another method without direct recourse, consider it an expensive lesson. We can't force the person to give you your money back even if they're watching this thread (and they probably are). They clearly see no guilt/fault... what a shame.
Yes I agree,seller can make mistake!!!and if you make one just be than fair guy and take the unit back and give the full refund or make some partial refund if the buyer agree to this.But than again I sell some stuff over the world even some 20kg tube pre shipped to Brasil and it arrived in perfect condition,becose FIRST zhe unit must be build to some verry good standard to be safe in shipping and SECOND if you are the seller you must take care of verry good packing.And BECOSE the shipping box in this case was not demadged it is only verry bad build that couse this problem.All hifi companys of this world shipp their stuff with shipping companys and I truly can believe that so many transformers get loose or that some pcb boards flying arround😉
Payment was with PayPal, using F&F. The seller was active in a good way here on diyAudio and that led me to think that F&F is okay. You are welcome to yell at me that this was not a good idea, but that won't help much now.
Not sure what you specific agreements you are referring to. The overall agreement was that I buy the DAC from the seller as advertised. I also payed his expenses for shipping.
My experience with situations like this is to take it as a lesson and cut your losses and by that I mean not only financial but also energetic. Don't waste your time fretting or arguing with a stone wall and increasing your upset while bringing no benefit.
It's diy after all so just fix it. Fix your bargaineer's pride too, if that was injured. As for the transaction , if anyone ever asks if you'd recommend the seller, without embellishment tell the truth.
It's diy after all so just fix it. Fix your bargaineer's pride too, if that was injured. As for the transaction , if anyone ever asks if you'd recommend the seller, without embellishment tell the truth.
Examples -
- If you agreed (and have it in documented communication) for insured shipping.
- If there was any discussion at all re: packing / shipping
- Since you paid with F&F, what to do in case of a dispute
It seems you have a few options... that you likely knew already; if continuing to appeal to their good faith does not work.
- Shame them publicly. They're likely watching this.
- Suck it up and move on. Cut your losses.
- Take them to court
None of them are appealing options, but again... you knew that.
I empathize. Definitely not yelling at you. It stinks, and that gear costs a decent amount. I truly hope they see some reason, and that they may see some reason in some of the posts in reply.
FWIW... They're at fault, IMO. It's just a matter of you having very little "true" leverage to get them to understand.
I agree with you about the situation which is really frustrating to say the least, but looking into the pictures, there does not seem to be major damage, especially with a large transformer loose like this, you're in luck in your bad luck. Looks quite easy to fix though if nothing is broken.
Best of luck !
Do
Best of luck !
Do
Seems pretty normal. Even "free" shipping is not free...
So the issue is that the item didn't arrive in the condition it was advertised. Given the build quality seen in the pictures I'm not exactly surprised. Few build their DIY kits so they can survive shipping. Even fewer seem to know how to pack things so they can survive shipping.
With PayPal F&F there's no option to start a complaint with PayPal, so your only options are to either reach an agreement with the seller or to repair the DAC and move on. Sounds like you've failed to reach an agreement with the seller and you say you like the DAC topology, so why not just repair it and move on? It doesn't look like the damage is too severe. Straighten the pins on those oscillators gently and connect everything back up. Sure. it's frustrating and you shouldn't have to. But such is life. Live and learn.
Lesson learned: Use regular PayPal and offer to pay the fee.
Regardless of the amount of cushioning, etc. there's just no way to guarantee that a package will arrive intact. I do my best and use boxes rated 100 kg crush proof. They take some abuse sometimes, but it's only happened once in the past 14 years that a package arrived damaged. That's a pretty tolerable error rate. It's happened a small handful of times that a package has disappeared in the mail and no amount of cushioning will prevent that. Similarly, no amount of double boxing or cushioning will prevent damage if the shipper drives a forklift into the package. Mistakes happen and it sucks when you're at the receiving end of this.
And don't bother paying extra for gentle handling. "Oh... That one said FRAGILE on it..." (after a 2-meter drop).
Interesting options. I have some experience with these. Insurance is generally not worth the money. With the shippers I use the insurance seems to cost about 10% of the value of the contents, so if you can ship 10 packages without damage you're ahead already. Secondly, insurance rarely covers. If the box is completely mangled or pierced by forklift forks you might have a chance. But if the item is damaged without damage to the box, the insurance company will deny your claim due to insufficient packaging. Insurance really only covers if the package is lost and that's actually fairly unlikely these days as long as you use a tracked shipping service.
If you paid PayPal with a credit card, you could open a dispute with your credit card company. However, PayPal will (correctly) say that you sent money to a friend or family member, so that claim will go nowhere and it could open you up to fraud charges. PayPal could also decide that you violated their policies as you used F&F to pay for a product or service and refuse to do business with you. Especially the fraud aspect makes this a rather undesirable option.
You could do that. But that also reflects on you, right? At least I like to think that the seller acted in good faith. At least I see no indications that they didn't. Most people are honest.
That's a very long and expensive process. Not to mention that there's no guarantee of success. Some jurisdictions have a small claims court that could be used for this sort of stuff. The filing fee will likely be a good chunk of the value of the DAC. What if you lose and the seller then sues you to recover their legal costs? I'm pretty sure only the lawyers will win that one.
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner.
Tom
^ Not sure why it was necessary to go point by point. I specifically said they weren't wonderful options. It comes down to selecting the least worst. 
You've pointed out WHY they're not good options, necessarily, and I agree. Sucking it up, learning, and moving on would be my option, but... everyone has their own path.
It doesn't apply to the situation at hand (I don't think) b/c the shipper/seller did not purchase insurance. However, I only very slightly disagree with one point above, and it's case-specific.
Since the shipper/seller is claiming mishandling vs. poor packaging / poor construction / poor anything that they did wrong, IF the shipper/seller had insured the package then the OP could simply say, "FINE, then file a claim with the shipping company, I'd like my money back, please."
I've received goods from you. I agree wholeheartedly that insurance likely isn't worth it to you, because all evidence points to the fact that you pack things VERY well, and as you said... since the packaging in this case showed little damage, the shipper/seller would likely not recover the cost, but at least the OP would potentially be free from the hassle.
You've pointed out WHY they're not good options, necessarily, and I agree. Sucking it up, learning, and moving on would be my option, but... everyone has their own path.It doesn't apply to the situation at hand (I don't think) b/c the shipper/seller did not purchase insurance. However, I only very slightly disagree with one point above, and it's case-specific.
Since the shipper/seller is claiming mishandling vs. poor packaging / poor construction / poor anything that they did wrong, IF the shipper/seller had insured the package then the OP could simply say, "FINE, then file a claim with the shipping company, I'd like my money back, please."
I've received goods from you. I agree wholeheartedly that insurance likely isn't worth it to you, because all evidence points to the fact that you pack things VERY well, and as you said... since the packaging in this case showed little damage, the shipper/seller would likely not recover the cost, but at least the OP would potentially be free from the hassle.
Last edited:
First and foremost,
I am very sad that this happened! It wasn't in my most horrible dream that this could happen.
I am a long time member here, I sell some stuff on eBay also with 100% feedback and I am not here to cheat on anyone. That beeing said ...
I offered Matthias to pay as HE wants ...
1. He choose Paypal Friends because it is cheaper
2. If offered standard shipping (not insured) and DHL - he choose standard (cheaper option)
3. I packed the DDDAC in double cardboxes with Styrofoam around the box
4. He also purchased 8x 10y tubes from me that were not damaged and were packed in the same box
5. Box was declared as fragile with big fragile mark on the box and marked TOP of the box
6. Everything was very tight, how it is possible that the front cover screws got loose and transformer screw (nothing else)?
7. Accusilicon clocks on IAN Canada modules work only on three legs --> I never imagined they would fall off, not in my wildest dream
8. I offered to help to assemble it with advices since I built it and if something will be faulty we can make a deal (this is his third DDDAC so even he knows everything about them)
9. When I settled down from the first shock, DDDAC doesn't look so bad, maybe two hours of labor at most
10. He insists on a partial refund without even wanting to see if something is broken or not (maybe clocks, but I have the original ones somewhere, I can send them free of charge so he can debug the problem if there will be one)
This is DIY forum and I know that we can't always agree on our opinions who is to blame ... I did my best to pack the DAC. Enclosure if from Modus Shop. How the postman or how to call him handled the packet I do not know, but what can I do? I am not happy about this and he isn't either. He doesn't want my help (obviously). I gave him a big discount with the DDDAC and tubes, sent as he wanted to, declared as HE wanted to ... and now I am the only one to blame.
I am open to help him and he are typing on Whatsapp from the first day ... but all he wants is a partial refund (for what, how much)? Seller is the only one to blame, right?
I think that we should avoid this kind of typing because it will not solve anything. I am still open minded and willing to help him if HE wants to accept it. For now, it only looks like to me that he wants to shake more money from me ...
Regards and have a good weekend you all.
Tomislav from Croatia
I am very sad that this happened! It wasn't in my most horrible dream that this could happen.
I am a long time member here, I sell some stuff on eBay also with 100% feedback and I am not here to cheat on anyone. That beeing said ...
I offered Matthias to pay as HE wants ...
1. He choose Paypal Friends because it is cheaper
2. If offered standard shipping (not insured) and DHL - he choose standard (cheaper option)
3. I packed the DDDAC in double cardboxes with Styrofoam around the box
4. He also purchased 8x 10y tubes from me that were not damaged and were packed in the same box
5. Box was declared as fragile with big fragile mark on the box and marked TOP of the box
6. Everything was very tight, how it is possible that the front cover screws got loose and transformer screw (nothing else)?
7. Accusilicon clocks on IAN Canada modules work only on three legs --> I never imagined they would fall off, not in my wildest dream
8. I offered to help to assemble it with advices since I built it and if something will be faulty we can make a deal (this is his third DDDAC so even he knows everything about them)
9. When I settled down from the first shock, DDDAC doesn't look so bad, maybe two hours of labor at most
10. He insists on a partial refund without even wanting to see if something is broken or not (maybe clocks, but I have the original ones somewhere, I can send them free of charge so he can debug the problem if there will be one)
This is DIY forum and I know that we can't always agree on our opinions who is to blame ... I did my best to pack the DAC. Enclosure if from Modus Shop. How the postman or how to call him handled the packet I do not know, but what can I do? I am not happy about this and he isn't either. He doesn't want my help (obviously). I gave him a big discount with the DDDAC and tubes, sent as he wanted to, declared as HE wanted to ... and now I am the only one to blame.
I am open to help him and he are typing on Whatsapp from the first day ... but all he wants is a partial refund (for what, how much)? Seller is the only one to blame, right?
I think that we should avoid this kind of typing because it will not solve anything. I am still open minded and willing to help him if HE wants to accept it. For now, it only looks like to me that he wants to shake more money from me ...
Regards and have a good weekend you all.
Tomislav from Croatia
Attachments
Last edited by a moderator:
To the builder:
- Did you use a self locking nut for the bigger transformer?
If not, I think you owe him money as it wasn't built to any form of basic mechanical standard... and as such, not fit for shipping.
To the buyer:
- Accept the offer for support and make it play music. Decide from there...
//
- Did you use a self locking nut for the bigger transformer?
If not, I think you owe him money as it wasn't built to any form of basic mechanical standard... and as such, not fit for shipping.
To the buyer:
- Accept the offer for support and make it play music. Decide from there...
//
- Status
- Not open for further replies.