I'm new(ish) to using digital streaming. I had been successfully using Ropieee through a Raspberry Pi over the last 3 years or so. I used various DAC hats or USB outputs to various DACs.
I've now expanded my horizons, and I'm trying out some new things that I desperately do not wish to screw up.
After assembling some of the Ian Canada parts into a very basic setup, I have the Gentoo Player on the Raspberry Pi configured for USB output to a DAC. I set it up as a Roon Bridge, and it seems to be working quite well.
Now, I want to try out the other "fancy" Ian Canada parts to output the signal to the DAC properly over the various interface options.
A few (okay a lot of) questions:
First the I2S
In the manual for the Topping, it shows the following for phase:
It would seem that I would need to reverse the phase with the D90 (or just remember to do it in Roon, I think) - no big deal.
What's odd (to me) is that it shows the following for DSD:
If I'm interpreting this correctly (highly suspect) the two (Ian's board and the D90 with DSD) cannot match. I can either have the phase reversed or the channels reversed, correct? I don't play a lot of DSD, but I'd like to have it set up properly.
It seems like it may be easiest to change the DSD to DSDR Data to get the channels correct. I can leave the phase alone. It would be inverted for both types. Then, I can just leave the phase inverted in Roon, if I actually care at all about absolute phase... which... I don't really, but...
OR
Are those settings independent of each other? i.e. if I swap the phase in the preceding step, it ALSO applies to the DSD?
I can test all of this, but it would be nice to not need to fool with testing phase.
So, if anyone knows, I'd be grateful.
-------------------------------------------
Next the AES
Onto the one that I really don't have a clue about... Gentoo Player with the TransportPiAES.
Do I still leave the "DAC" in Gentoo Player as generic I2S when I swap over to that?
Also, does anyone know how to use the Ian Canada I2S and the AES boards in a stacked configuration? I'd love to have both options permanently mounted, so I don't have to swap back and forth. However, the Masterclock from the Fifopi can only go to one thing, I think. Any advice is appreciated.
Just getting the Gentoo Player set up and running was a monumental task. In hindsight, it's easy as Pi
It just had a steep learning curve for me. It's playing now, and it hasn't glitched, so... I'm leaving it alone... until I may need to change it for the AES board...
Edited to insert thumbnails vs. have the massive pics.
I've now expanded my horizons, and I'm trying out some new things that I desperately do not wish to screw up.
After assembling some of the Ian Canada parts into a very basic setup, I have the Gentoo Player on the Raspberry Pi configured for USB output to a DAC. I set it up as a Roon Bridge, and it seems to be working quite well.
Now, I want to try out the other "fancy" Ian Canada parts to output the signal to the DAC properly over the various interface options.
A few (okay a lot of) questions:
First the I2S
- I assume in Gentoo player one would select the "DAC" as Generic I2S, correct?
- Then, as but one example, I have a few DACs. One is a Topping D90. I noticed that the pinout for the Ian Canada board is:
In the manual for the Topping, it shows the following for phase:
It would seem that I would need to reverse the phase with the D90 (or just remember to do it in Roon, I think) - no big deal.
What's odd (to me) is that it shows the following for DSD:
If I'm interpreting this correctly (highly suspect) the two (Ian's board and the D90 with DSD) cannot match. I can either have the phase reversed or the channels reversed, correct? I don't play a lot of DSD, but I'd like to have it set up properly.
It seems like it may be easiest to change the DSD to DSDR Data to get the channels correct. I can leave the phase alone. It would be inverted for both types. Then, I can just leave the phase inverted in Roon, if I actually care at all about absolute phase... which... I don't really, but...
OR
Are those settings independent of each other? i.e. if I swap the phase in the preceding step, it ALSO applies to the DSD?
I can test all of this, but it would be nice to not need to fool with testing phase.
So, if anyone knows, I'd be grateful.
-------------------------------------------
Next the AES
Onto the one that I really don't have a clue about... Gentoo Player with the TransportPiAES.
Do I still leave the "DAC" in Gentoo Player as generic I2S when I swap over to that?
Also, does anyone know how to use the Ian Canada I2S and the AES boards in a stacked configuration? I'd love to have both options permanently mounted, so I don't have to swap back and forth. However, the Masterclock from the Fifopi can only go to one thing, I think. Any advice is appreciated.
Just getting the Gentoo Player set up and running was a monumental task. In hindsight, it's easy as Pi
It just had a steep learning curve for me. It's playing now, and it hasn't glitched, so... I'm leaving it alone... until I may need to change it for the AES board...Edited to insert thumbnails vs. have the massive pics.
^ I like what you've done! I recall it sounding incredible before. Can't wait to hear it again. Yours is what inspired me to give it a try. I'll have to chat with you about how to house mine and/or some more creative ways to stack everything.
Do you have the FifoPi Q7 or Q7MKII? Asking b/c I don't see J14 and J15 (for the MKII) on the bottom of the board, and I see you've got what looks to be J14 connected to your PurePi for sync. I didn't think that function worked with the Q7. If it does, that's fantastic! I have an MKII that I'm going to hook up instead of the Q7 for this system just in case b/c I was not sure.
On my end, I am waiting on one more set of the caps for the UcConditioner 5V side, and the batteries for the PurePower should be here today. At the moment, I am still running it digital out through USB from the RPi until I get the 3V3 side going with the batteries.
Do you have the FifoPi Q7 or Q7MKII? Asking b/c I don't see J14 and J15 (for the MKII) on the bottom of the board, and I see you've got what looks to be J14 connected to your PurePi for sync. I didn't think that function worked with the Q7. If it does, that's fantastic! I have an MKII that I'm going to hook up instead of the Q7 for this system just in case b/c I was not sure.
On my end, I am waiting on one more set of the caps for the UcConditioner 5V side, and the batteries for the PurePower should be here today. At the moment, I am still running it digital out through USB from the RPi until I get the 3V3 side going with the batteries.
I am reading and re-reading the manuals for all of this...
It seems I can have my cake and eat it too...
From the Transport AES manual (attached), it shows in example 3 (page 9):
3. Flagship AES/EBU, S/PDIF and I2S/DSD over HDMI transport
This seems really close to what I have / want, and I found the additional MCLK connection (J11) on the bottom of the FifoPi.
Now all I should need to do is figure out the proper phase / channels for I2S over HDMI and get the rest of the PSU built when the parts come.
Hi Patrick,
Great to hear you've sorted it out. I've just bought a D90 dac to compare with my Ackodac geared with Ian's MCFifo.
I am having couple of questions:
1. Is it worth adding Ian's' boards to feed the D90? Any audible difference vs the USB interface in the DAC?
2. Could you please share the I2S interface settings?
Thanks!
Great to hear you've sorted it out. I've just bought a D90 dac to compare with my Ackodac geared with Ian's MCFifo.
I am having couple of questions:
1. Is it worth adding Ian's' boards to feed the D90? Any audible difference vs the USB interface in the DAC?
2. Could you please share the I2S interface settings?
Thanks!
^
It's been working well for the past few weeks with no issues.
1) Worth? I think at original retail cost, Ian's gear would have been ~$1000 USD. It replaced something that cost me <$50 USD. Do I THINK I hear a difference, yes. Could it be confirmation bias after spending ~20X for something that serves the same purpose, yes.
2) Set the D90 to invert phase (or your software). I haven't tried DSD yet. I think I have maybe 3 DSD tracks in my library. I got them as a sampler with an old iFi DAC, I think. I think my main player (Roon) converts DSD to PCM. Either way, based on the pinouts posted in the D90 and Ian's manuals, I think the D90 should be set to DSDR Data. If you don't care about DSD, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Hope you enjoy it if you go that route.
It's been working well for the past few weeks with no issues.
1) Worth? I think at original retail cost, Ian's gear would have been ~$1000 USD. It replaced something that cost me <$50 USD. Do I THINK I hear a difference, yes. Could it be confirmation bias after spending ~20X for something that serves the same purpose, yes.
2) Set the D90 to invert phase (or your software). I haven't tried DSD yet. I think I have maybe 3 DSD tracks in my library. I got them as a sampler with an old iFi DAC, I think. I think my main player (Roon) converts DSD to PCM. Either way, based on the pinouts posted in the D90 and Ian's manuals, I think the D90 should be set to DSDR Data. If you don't care about DSD, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Hope you enjoy it if you go that route.
Try HQ Player or some other app that converts PCM to DSD. There is a free trial version of HQ Player that runs with full features for 30 minutes at time. Once it times out you can always restart it without limit. It doesn't expire, it only has the 30-minutes-at-a-time limitation. Many people find the sound of DSD more to their liking as opposed to PCM. For myself, I play all my ripped 16/44 CDs in DSD format because it sounds better to me.
^ I have a full license to HQ Player. It integrates nicely with Roon. It can eat up some serious CPU cycles though.
(One of) My (many) downfall(s) is that I went waaaaaaaaaay too far down the rabbit hole with filters. One week I'd swear to all that was holy that filter X was the end-all-be-all... then the following week... it was another.
I just have to give it up and admit that I really have a tin ear... and that while fun... most of the benefit that I "hear" with lots of things is likely confirmation bias / random. I doesn't keep me from enjoying the hobby. I have a blast just piddling around. If I ever find something that satisfies my own semi-scientific / mostly nonsense litmus tests for "better"... I'll certainly say so, but my impressions /opinions should be taken with a heapin' helpin' of NaCl.
I will, certainly, give HQ Player another run at PCM => DSD. Then... of course... it will be the DSD DAC showdown again. I think that was 2018 or so when I last did it.
Great to hear from you.
(One of) My (many) downfall(s) is that I went waaaaaaaaaay too far down the rabbit hole with filters. One week I'd swear to all that was holy that filter X was the end-all-be-all... then the following week... it was another.
I just have to give it up and admit that I really have a tin ear... and that while fun... most of the benefit that I "hear" with lots of things is likely confirmation bias / random. I doesn't keep me from enjoying the hobby. I have a blast just piddling around. If I ever find something that satisfies my own semi-scientific / mostly nonsense litmus tests for "better"... I'll certainly say so, but my impressions /opinions should be taken with a heapin' helpin' of NaCl.
I will, certainly, give HQ Player another run at PCM => DSD. Then... of course... it will be the DSD DAC showdown again. I think that was 2018 or so when I last did it.
Great to hear from you.
It turns out pretty much anyone and everyone can learn to hear things that are inaudible to many other people. People can learn how to pretty reliably tell the differences between HQ player filters. For some people there may be some natural talent. For other people it make take some organized training and practice. Best may be some natural talent with a lot of training and practice.
Of course, it helps tremendously to have a good enough system such that the differences are plain to hear. Then its only a matter of learning to assess the sound systematically and keep records of what you hear using different auditory perception tests with familiar music.
Also, someone once described the process of learning how to hear in a skilled way as like "going to see the elephant." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_the_elephant
Hearing what's real can be learned, but for the vast majority of people it takes time, discipline, and structured methodology. Flailing attempts without structure and practice typically only lead to the "circle of confusion."
Of course, there may also be a few fabled Enid Lumley's in the world too.
https://hifiauditions.wordpress.com/2020/04/04/who-was-enid-lumley/
https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/21/edit/21509520231102141439.html
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/roger-skoff-importance-of-details/#:~:text=Enid Lumley, the long-ago,her observations were dead on.
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^ I haven't had a chance to read all of the links yet, but it's certainly a great start to understanding.
One of the reasons I got some of Ian's gear was b/c I have the opportunity on occasion to hear what I consider a truly remarkable system. The imaging is like nothing else I've ever experienced. When I went by not-too-long ago, I noticed what I thought was a (subtle but) clear change in the tonality of the "bottom end". The differentiation between notes and the "texture" (if that's actually a word for audio) of the instruments, whether it was a bass guitar, stand-up bass, the lower notes on a piano, or drums, was really pretty special. When I inquired if anything had changed since my previous visit... the answer was the new streamer.
With that said... I do have an appointment with an audiologist scheduled. My concerns aren't with my enjoyment or discernment just for my own fun, but that that someone might take my impressions and act upon them.
Now... someone might take that as... Well, if HE can hear a difference, then it ought to be obvious to anyone with undiminished hearing and some finely-tuned listening skills. I just like to be clear with anyone that may ask for my opinion that mine maaaaaaaay not be the best opinion.
I tried the Harman "how to listen"... I may try that again too.
https://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/2011/01/welcome-to-how-to-listen.html
Again... I truly appreciate the insights.
One of the reasons I got some of Ian's gear was b/c I have the opportunity on occasion to hear what I consider a truly remarkable system. The imaging is like nothing else I've ever experienced. When I went by not-too-long ago, I noticed what I thought was a (subtle but) clear change in the tonality of the "bottom end". The differentiation between notes and the "texture" (if that's actually a word for audio) of the instruments, whether it was a bass guitar, stand-up bass, the lower notes on a piano, or drums, was really pretty special. When I inquired if anything had changed since my previous visit... the answer was the new streamer.
With that said... I do have an appointment with an audiologist scheduled. My concerns aren't with my enjoyment or discernment just for my own fun, but that that someone might take my impressions and act upon them.
Now... someone might take that as... Well, if HE can hear a difference, then it ought to be obvious to anyone with undiminished hearing and some finely-tuned listening skills. I just like to be clear with anyone that may ask for my opinion that mine maaaaaaaay not be the best opinion.
I tried the Harman "how to listen"... I may try that again too.
https://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/2011/01/welcome-to-how-to-listen.html
Again... I truly appreciate the insights.