Ok but how to you go against cultural things ?
I notice I don't have any MT 6"+1" but 2 x 6" + 1" or 6" as mid. I don't know if it is the bass reflex for the 6" because I don't have any bass-reflex cabinet. I prefer a 5" + 1" or 8" + 1" (Closed or PR).
I also notice in France we have had a tradition of speaker 8"+ 1" with designers/Manufacturers like Leedh (Psyche speaker), Jean-marie Reynaud, Apertura, Davis with its flagship the 20TK8 and the cone tweeter TW26K. We also have a local well known french guy who build only 8"+1" with first order crossover !
Yes I can understand @Aillo who want to build a 8" + 1"
.Note SEAS propose kits 8"+1" APHEL/TRYM.
The trade off is you must have very good speakers because it is tricky do it well.
Edit: I found an old kit from Davis KLARENCE
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So to summarize where we stand:
Javad's Curly 8's (RS225P-4)posted in post #5. Advantage - off the shelf drivers in a simple cabinet
Wolf's Zinger II - (Dayton SD215A-88 same crossover as original but with Seas tweeter: Advantage - off the shelf drivers in a simple cabinet
DaveFred's Vellabreezy - (RS225-8 aluminum) won Part's Express Speaker Design Competition under $300 last year - Disadvantage - large facet will require more than basic woodworking tools and skill
Troels Gravesen Discover 81 - (Scan-speak drivers) Disadvantage - you have to buy the kit.
PK Audio 21W 6600 WG - (Scan-speak drivers) You didn't mention price, so listing this one. Disadvantage - expensive. (Crossover is not posted but email contact is at the bottom of the page and the designer is a diyaudio forum member.)
Two that are cheating - the Dayton RS180P is a 7" woofer rather than 8" woofer. (And really more of a 6-1/2" woofer than 7")
Keith Etheredge's Defiants - Disadvantage - 7" and you have to build an adapter to mount the Visaton waveguide (which is actually quite easy)
Parts Express Samba Kit - Disadvantage 7" driver
I didn't find much else, I hope others offer some recommendations too.
- Off the shelf crossovers do not work
- Designing your own crossover is a lot of work and takes measurement equipment
- You have a strong preference for an 8" woofer in a sealed two way
- Any 8" PORTED two way can be made sealed without changing the crossover, just keep the baffle width and driver positioning as intended
Javad's Curly 8's (RS225P-4)posted in post #5. Advantage - off the shelf drivers in a simple cabinet
Wolf's Zinger II - (Dayton SD215A-88 same crossover as original but with Seas tweeter: Advantage - off the shelf drivers in a simple cabinet
DaveFred's Vellabreezy - (RS225-8 aluminum) won Part's Express Speaker Design Competition under $300 last year - Disadvantage - large facet will require more than basic woodworking tools and skill
Troels Gravesen Discover 81 - (Scan-speak drivers) Disadvantage - you have to buy the kit.
PK Audio 21W 6600 WG - (Scan-speak drivers) You didn't mention price, so listing this one. Disadvantage - expensive. (Crossover is not posted but email contact is at the bottom of the page and the designer is a diyaudio forum member.)
Two that are cheating - the Dayton RS180P is a 7" woofer rather than 8" woofer. (And really more of a 6-1/2" woofer than 7")
Keith Etheredge's Defiants - Disadvantage - 7" and you have to build an adapter to mount the Visaton waveguide (which is actually quite easy)
Parts Express Samba Kit - Disadvantage 7" driver
I didn't find much else, I hope others offer some recommendations too.
From one inexperienced builder to another… I used the exact drivers that you (OP) suggested to build a pair of floor standing speakers that are pretty unusual. I used the following off the shelf Eminence crossover: https://eminence.com/products/px_bii_1k6
I did REW/UMIK measurements and they measured nicely and sound good too. I’ll try to update with pics and measurements when I get a chance.
I registered just to share this little bit of insight. I have learned a good bit lurking around this forum, so thanks to those who participate and share their knowledge!
I did REW/UMIK measurements and they measured nicely and sound good too. I’ll try to update with pics and measurements when I get a chance.
I registered just to share this little bit of insight. I have learned a good bit lurking around this forum, so thanks to those who participate and share their knowledge!
Thanks a lot for the summary and all the speakers you quoted @A4eaudio.
That would be perfect if you could share some data @SpeedyBrad, because everyone claims that there is no way of building anything decent with an off the shelf xover.
That would be perfect if you could share some data @SpeedyBrad, because everyone claims that there is no way of building anything decent with an off the shelf xover.
Ok….so passive crossover it is.
First things first………you’re going to need a tweeter that can cross down in the 1.5khz range because of the directivity of the 8” woofer which will start beaming at 1k or so……..you want to avoid that excess energy on the listening axis and since this is a DIY project for max performance per $$$, there’s no reason to compromise
The Dayton RST 28a can do the low Xo point……..nothing else from Dayton can handle anything this low. You’d have to look at SBAcoustics as the next budget tweeter to work here…..the SB29 is a little more money but it’s a great sounding tweeter. I’d go this route if there’s no restriction on all Dayton drivers.
But for an off the shelf design, the Vellabreezy from Dave is far and away the best option for you……just build as is and plug the port and add stuffing….bass response will follow the normal 2nd order sealed rolloff and you won’t be missing much on the low end. You can also tune the bass rolloff by adding displacement inside the box to taste….I use blue racquet balls for voicing and tuning glued together with hot glue. Adding one to each corner of the box will also help with standing waves.
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Not me
In the world there is not only one way. The part express design is not a bad design, you cannot go wrong.
If you can change driver, there an other way which works well. The RS225P-8 is not a perfect driver for simple crossover because you have a peak in the treble.
You can see this link . He builds a lot of 8"+1", and has his forum where you can find help if you want simple things.
Some other project here Classic 2.5
I start to make speakers like this with my ears and very little components.
This is an other project with measurements : U22REX
Not all 8" are suitable for two ways, It is a difficult project for a beginner.
Don't worry about the volume of the box, a bass reflex could be a closed box if you closed the vent.
Dear DiyAudio members,
I decided I am going to design the whole speaker myself including the crossover. I understand most of the theory involved (musicologist and sound technician), but electronics are my weakness. I would like to share with you some screenshots from VituixCAD, explaining step by step my process. I would be pleased if you could let me know when you see a problem.
Thanks in advance!
1- For designing the crossover, I downloaded the data from Dayton's website and used VituixCAD. I tried optimizing diagrams which were created on https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerCrossover/
2- After doing this, I designed the baffle and chose an enclosure:
(*The enclosure is 22.2L)
3- I used the calculator in VituixCAD to multiply the frequency response of the crossover with the enclosure's (with diffraction). This resulted in a quite big baffle loss :
4- So I redesigned the xover according to the baffle loss and used the calculator again to see the actual results (crossover + enclosure):
I decided I am going to design the whole speaker myself including the crossover. I understand most of the theory involved (musicologist and sound technician), but electronics are my weakness. I would like to share with you some screenshots from VituixCAD, explaining step by step my process. I would be pleased if you could let me know when you see a problem.
Thanks in advance!
Sealed speaker project (1", 8") with Dayton's RST28F-4 and RS225-4
1- For designing the crossover, I downloaded the data from Dayton's website and used VituixCAD. I tried optimizing diagrams which were created on https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerCrossover/
2- After doing this, I designed the baffle and chose an enclosure:
(*The enclosure is 22.2L)
3- I used the calculator in VituixCAD to multiply the frequency response of the crossover with the enclosure's (with diffraction). This resulted in a quite big baffle loss :
4- So I redesigned the xover according to the baffle loss and used the calculator again to see the actual results (crossover + enclosure):
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If this is your first time I'd recommend keeping an eye (ear?) out for off-axis response graphs/directivity too, as others have mentioned. The choice of a waveguide may help cross a bit lower/more easily, however waveguide selection likely requires some effort too, and your crossover need changes. Disclaimer, NAE (not an expert)
Thanks a lot! I have two questions:
1- Why can't I get more bass with a 8" woofer? Currently, it rolls off quite rapidly below 100hz (see my last graph in the calculator). Am I going to have to sacrifice the overall sensitivity because off the baffle step loss? Or, this is because of the enclosure's volume (currently 22.2)? Or both?
2- The way I used the calculator, is it right? Also, what's the next step? Should I simulate the room?
For this first build, I really don't want to get under 1.7-1.8k with the tweeter, it creates problems that I can't cope with for now. Regarding the waveguide, I have a bunch of speakers with waveguide at home, I would really like to try something else.
1- Why can't I get more bass with a 8" woofer? Currently, it rolls off quite rapidly below 100hz (see my last graph in the calculator). Am I going to have to sacrifice the overall sensitivity because off the baffle step loss? Or, this is because of the enclosure's volume (currently 22.2)? Or both?
2- The way I used the calculator, is it right? Also, what's the next step? Should I simulate the room?
For this first build, I really don't want to get under 1.7-1.8k with the tweeter, it creates problems that I can't cope with for now. Regarding the waveguide, I have a bunch of speakers with waveguide at home, I would really like to try something else.
If I’m not mistaken the bass roll off is due to the size of the box basically becoming too small. Something ideal would be an infinite baffle, where one side of the driver would be another room or even the outdoors - but that’s not practical most of the time. You could vent, or even use a passive radiator, or use some sort of EQ compensation- depending on things like your source/amplifier and its capabilities. Baffle loss occurs at frequencies where the wavelength of sound is similar to the length of the baffle, that’s generally much higher than 100hz.
Tbh with the calculator I have no suggestion as Ive never used it. If you could create a graph of off axis response, and/or a visualisation of the audio output individual drivers (or maybe a directivity plot which might be easier), that would be a good step imo.
By the way is there any specific reason to stick with a tweeter? You sometimes get 1” drivers like the ones Aurasound (or hivi) that can be crossed lower. The sb acoustics 26adc also has a relatively high xmax among tweeters, if you’re open to changes.
Tbh with the calculator I have no suggestion as Ive never used it. If you could create a graph of off axis response, and/or a visualisation of the audio output individual drivers (or maybe a directivity plot which might be easier), that would be a good step imo.
By the way is there any specific reason to stick with a tweeter? You sometimes get 1” drivers like the ones Aurasound (or hivi) that can be crossed lower. The sb acoustics 26adc also has a relatively high xmax among tweeters, if you’re open to changes.
Then use a smaller woofer in the same size enclosure…..it will extend lower given the more suitable volume.
Pictures! The design is unusual. Long story about the location where I wanted to place them, which is not the location in the pictures. The top, bottom and corner pieces are solid black walnut. The rest is black walnut plywood with five MDF window braces inside. I did some fancy routing on the joints where all the pieces join up. I used auto sound deadening material on all interior walls and stuffed the cavity with denim batting. The two speakers are book matched for identical grain on all equivalent sides.
Good - you're applying the baffle diffraction response to the "raw" Dayton woofer measurements. Same goes for the tweeter.
Don't forget in vituixCad to check the "minimum phase" checkbox for each driver in the driver tab AND enter a Z offset for your woofer - around 50mm would probably be about right for a 1" / 8" driver combo (tweeter Z remains at zero). This is because you are not using frequency responses with measured phase data... but derived (minimum) phase from the individual frequency responses.
If you don't enter a Z offset and don't check the minimum phase checkbox, your phase data will be all wrong and your crossover summing won't reflect reality.
Don't forget in vituixCad to check the "minimum phase" checkbox for each driver in the driver tab AND enter a Z offset for your woofer - around 50mm would probably be about right for a 1" / 8" driver combo (tweeter Z remains at zero). This is because you are not using frequency responses with measured phase data... but derived (minimum) phase from the individual frequency responses.
If you don't enter a Z offset and don't check the minimum phase checkbox, your phase data will be all wrong and your crossover summing won't reflect reality.