Hi All!
As I have begun my build, I would like to get my room ready for them.
The room in question is pretty maliable and I will be putting 4" pyramid foam on every inch of the wall (yes, every inch, bass traps in corner.) I have two questions.
1. Will the 3.5' square which leads to a door do much to the acoustics? I assume if it is awful I can put a curtain there.
2. Following the golden ratio, the speakers are only 5' apart. Should I sacrifice this a little and maybe go to a 1/5 ratio to allow for more separation?
3. I can also put the speakers on any of the other walls if it makes things better?
As I have begun my build, I would like to get my room ready for them.
The room in question is pretty maliable and I will be putting 4" pyramid foam on every inch of the wall (yes, every inch, bass traps in corner.) I have two questions.
1. Will the 3.5' square which leads to a door do much to the acoustics? I assume if it is awful I can put a curtain there.
2. Following the golden ratio, the speakers are only 5' apart. Should I sacrifice this a little and maybe go to a 1/5 ratio to allow for more separation?
3. I can also put the speakers on any of the other walls if it makes things better?
i think you should put the speakers along the hardest wall, with the highest density. also, any openings like the 3,5 feet square should be behind you. using that much acoustics foam as you write will make your room sound to dead, not a good thing when listening to music in my experience, but can work for other activities
Yep! Since posting this, I have revised my plan and will use far less foam. Behind speaker, in front, and first reflection point. Due to exactly that reason.
That is possible, may require a funky setup. Carpet yes. Windows I have large black out curtains for coming
I was planning on putting curtains over the 3x3 square, I think that should get rid of most issues with it.
I do know the near field setup, but I am trying to get some imaging and separation - maybe those things are exclusive.
I think my mock up will work fine. Both walls are external, but the closet may effect it. Putting speakers on the wall with the window may cause an issue with the exact listening position, and the massage chair is hard to place, possibly right in the middle between the speakers. Big recliner can probably go.
Photos below
Attachments
Near field can have the best imaging and detail.
After seeing the photos, I would change my mind and place the speakers as in your post #1.
Place the chair near the rear wall, with a large curtain or wool rug hung behind the chair at ear level.
This is essential, do not omit it.
Set the speakers in an equilateral triangle with the chair, or move the speakers slightly farther apart,
with curtain or wool rug between the speakers. Wall-wall carpeting is needed here. There's only room for one chair.
I doubt you'll need the foam at all, if you place the absorption on the walls as described above.
Curtains over the entrance way will not likely help much if at all.
After seeing the photos, I would change my mind and place the speakers as in your post #1.
Place the chair near the rear wall, with a large curtain or wool rug hung behind the chair at ear level.
This is essential, do not omit it.
Set the speakers in an equilateral triangle with the chair, or move the speakers slightly farther apart,
with curtain or wool rug between the speakers. Wall-wall carpeting is needed here. There's only room for one chair.
I doubt you'll need the foam at all, if you place the absorption on the walls as described above.
Curtains over the entrance way will not likely help much if at all.
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Yeah that should be more than enough. It is actually about 9'. I haven't built them yet - all the stuff is currently in transit.
The dimensions I wrote in were golden ratio stuff, is there no issue having them closer to the back wall assuming the room is treated? I'd like to have them farther apart, and farther back, but that breaks from the ratio.
There is also this Which may work better?
Actually re reading.
AFAIK the rugs woudlbt do anything for absorption, at least minor, and would do about the same as the heavy black out curtains I'd use (think theater stage)
Unless the rug is ~10cm thick then yeah it's about the same as 4" foam but a bit better on low freq
The foam I'm using is 4" wedge so .5 coefficient for 125hz, and .95 for anything above 3000 or so. These should eliminate first reflection points if placed right.
Now to convince @SRMcGee I need 400 watts a channel for this near field setup
Good luck with that. I understand the room you've described above may not be your Elsinores' final resting place, and if the next room is substantially larger a little more amplifier power may be called for. But, as I noted in another thread, my main listening room is 21' x 20' by 7.5', and a BA2018 preamp / 10 watt VFET amp combination can create vastly more noise than I can stand. I really can't imagine a world where you'll need to pair your Elsinores with an amp having more than 100 watts into 8 R/1 meter, and it is very likely that even after switching rooms 25 watts will far exceed your power requirements. In any event, my mantra and strongest advice is quality over quantity.
One last thought before I back off: I appreciate your enthusiasm and agree with rayma regarding room dressing and orientation, but also suggest you remain flexible regarding speaker and listening chair positioning. You may be getting ahead of yourself. Do things incrementally, testing along the way. Every speaker system is a little different and no one rule, "golden" or not, applies to them all. Set conventional wisdom aside and experiment and you'll figure out what works best.
Regards.
Just to restate, a wool rug hung on the wall behind your head will make a very big difference, especially
if imaging is important to you. It must be wool. You can buy very nice looking wool rugs 6' x 4' to use.
I've built a wood frame from 1x2s and nailed the rug along the top, letting it just hang down otherwise.
Then hang the frame on the wall with two hooks like a picture. The frame should be several inches inside
the edges of the rug all around to conceal the wood. It works great.
if imaging is important to you. It must be wool. You can buy very nice looking wool rugs 6' x 4' to use.
I've built a wood frame from 1x2s and nailed the rug along the top, letting it just hang down otherwise.
Then hang the frame on the wall with two hooks like a picture. The frame should be several inches inside
the edges of the rug all around to conceal the wood. It works great.
I appreciate the help, I'm curious if there are measurements of wool rugs? I've never seen that suggested or recommended, woolrock/fiberglass insulation yeah, but not a rug. The goal here is to absorb all the waves from ~80 and up. Bass traps can do that for the corners easily but the front/back/side walls need something more practical. (4" foam has a coefficient of .5 for 125hz for reference)
You can only attenuate the sound, not completely absorb it. No single material is effective over a wide range.
But some materials work better than others for this purpose.
A proper near field listening setup will work much better than lining all the walls with foam.
But some materials work better than others for this purpose.
A proper near field listening setup will work much better than lining all the walls with foam.
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I think I see what you're saying now. The near field and then traditional setup is different . I'll experiment!
So I met with someone at the FL audio expo, a guy from PAD (pro audio designs). Very insightful on how he treats rooms in the decades he's done it.
In short, thick foam is great for first reflections, nothing wrong with it. Absorption plus diffraction is better, but foam works.
Foam is not great for bass, unless you have a lot of it. However, foam does still reduce it.
I ran a room simulator and found the nodes of the room. Incase I have issues, the best way he said to treat it is with bass traps in the corner. These are really expensive to buy, but not too bad to DIY. Wood frame calculated based on an equation to target the specific node frequency, rock wool in the back, maybe some mesh to hold it, then a sheet of mass loaded vinyl as a membrane. Pretty cool how it works, almost like an anti-speaker.
As everyone said, he also said be flexible and see what works or doesn't - or, he was willing to run a simulation and give me the technical approach. Going to play around for a few weeks after I get everything setup and report back!
In short, thick foam is great for first reflections, nothing wrong with it. Absorption plus diffraction is better, but foam works.
Foam is not great for bass, unless you have a lot of it. However, foam does still reduce it.
I ran a room simulator and found the nodes of the room. Incase I have issues, the best way he said to treat it is with bass traps in the corner. These are really expensive to buy, but not too bad to DIY. Wood frame calculated based on an equation to target the specific node frequency, rock wool in the back, maybe some mesh to hold it, then a sheet of mass loaded vinyl as a membrane. Pretty cool how it works, almost like an anti-speaker.
As everyone said, he also said be flexible and see what works or doesn't - or, he was willing to run a simulation and give me the technical approach. Going to play around for a few weeks after I get everything setup and report back!
i agree fully, sitting in the near-field range éverything sounds perfect, and when moving backwards away from the speakers more and more of the room starts to be heard and the magic goes away! in the near-field setup it is like sitting in a sound bubble, and when increasing the speaker to listener distance the more it is like listening to a distant sound field.
it is a bit like sitting in a complete darkness and watch a tiny bulb illuminate in front of you vs. sitting in a fantastic big space with lots of lots of bulbs of different lumen illuminating all around this hugely space with lots of different structures and surfaces of different sizes and depths and colors and shapes
maybe a fully treated room with diffusers can give a sound bubble experience even at a greater in-room listening distance?
a room with lots of absorbers can not achive this as it seems, from my experience.
