From the top of my head down the memory lane of this thread few times here and there were mentioned about the high end roll off of TC9 as is usually the case with many wide banders. This too has been my experience. I craved for that high end sharpness.
Then I came across a video of Danny Richie (GR Research) wherein he mentioned something in the line of additional tweeter if needed can be done so facing/pointing upwards. Then started my trials with the limited parts I have on hand.
I'm far from being a crossover expert. For all my crossover works all I did was go about trying and listening after going through Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement by @AllenB
I ended up with a Dayton ND25TA crossed very high using third order. Works for me! for now. The sharp sound of the cymbals which I love/crave for is coming through. I'm loving it!
Has anyone else tried this?
Then I came across a video of Danny Richie (GR Research) wherein he mentioned something in the line of additional tweeter if needed can be done so facing/pointing upwards. Then started my trials with the limited parts I have on hand.
I'm far from being a crossover expert. For all my crossover works all I did was go about trying and listening after going through Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement by @AllenB
I ended up with a Dayton ND25TA crossed very high using third order. Works for me! for now. The sharp sound of the cymbals which I love/crave for is coming through. I'm loving it!
Has anyone else tried this?
Embarrassed to even post, but need to rip this bandaid off.. I actually ordered the parts for making a pair of the Ultras back in January of 2024 and here we are in June of '25 and I still haven't built them yet! Lots of excuses, some even valid, but about to restart this project. First critical consideration (at least in my mind) is that I have NO woodworking skills and basically have a hand saw, a hammer, and just bought a hand router. I have a friend who is pretty good with wood but he had no space until just last week rented out a large storage unit that he is now setting up with a table saw, etc.
Given all this time has passed, may I ask this to @Pano and @barryso and all the other skilled DIYers here: IF you were to build a new Manzanita Ultra starting today, would you use a different tweeter than the Peerless TC9FD18-08 (that I bought)?? A strong secondary reason for this question is because I have NO idea how I can flush mount the TC9 and so would greatly prefer a round fullrange. With the new router and enough YouTube videos I can venture forth routing and rebating using a circle jig I also just bought, but the much more complex (for me) rectangular type shape of the TC9 has me in paralysis. Trying to search thru this tread again I see one potential round tweeter alternative is the Dayton Audio PS95-8 3.5", but there may be much better options out there that I'll defer to the experts here.
Thanks in advance,
Procrastinator David
Given all this time has passed, may I ask this to @Pano and @barryso and all the other skilled DIYers here: IF you were to build a new Manzanita Ultra starting today, would you use a different tweeter than the Peerless TC9FD18-08 (that I bought)?? A strong secondary reason for this question is because I have NO idea how I can flush mount the TC9 and so would greatly prefer a round fullrange. With the new router and enough YouTube videos I can venture forth routing and rebating using a circle jig I also just bought, but the much more complex (for me) rectangular type shape of the TC9 has me in paralysis. Trying to search thru this tread again I see one potential round tweeter alternative is the Dayton Audio PS95-8 3.5", but there may be much better options out there that I'll defer to the experts here.
Thanks in advance,
Procrastinator David
Hi David, thanks for posting.
If you have no woodworking skills, you picked the right project! 😀 John Busch designed this to be super easy to build.
As for mounting the Vifa, you can make a sub baffle for it. I will try to describe it for you: Where the Vifa goes make a hole bigger than the Vifa. Then grab a piece thin board, like hardboard or ~1/4” ply. Make a round cutout in that thin piece for your Vifa. Now the Vifa is mounted on a thin board.
Take that thin board and mount it over the large hole you made in the large baffle. Voila! You now have the Vifa mounted but with a large cutout in the main, thick baffle.
If you want to make it look pretty (you should) then practice on scrap with your router. Make the thin Vifa baffle round and a little bigger that the cutout in the main baffle. Route an insert around edge the big hole in the main baffle that is the same diameter as your thin Vifa baffle. The idea being that you will inset the thin baffle flush into the thick baffle.
That may be hard to visualize from a text description, but I’m pretty sure that there are photos of this idea somwhere in the thread.
I might be able to draw it for you if you need that.
If you have no woodworking skills, you picked the right project! 😀 John Busch designed this to be super easy to build.
As for mounting the Vifa, you can make a sub baffle for it. I will try to describe it for you: Where the Vifa goes make a hole bigger than the Vifa. Then grab a piece thin board, like hardboard or ~1/4” ply. Make a round cutout in that thin piece for your Vifa. Now the Vifa is mounted on a thin board.
Take that thin board and mount it over the large hole you made in the large baffle. Voila! You now have the Vifa mounted but with a large cutout in the main, thick baffle.
If you want to make it look pretty (you should) then practice on scrap with your router. Make the thin Vifa baffle round and a little bigger that the cutout in the main baffle. Route an insert around edge the big hole in the main baffle that is the same diameter as your thin Vifa baffle. The idea being that you will inset the thin baffle flush into the thick baffle.
That may be hard to visualize from a text description, but I’m pretty sure that there are photos of this idea somwhere in the thread.
I might be able to draw it for you if you need that.
Some of us have less than no woodworking skills. So the drivers were just mounted proud on the front of the baffle and a 8" black felt ring was put around the Vifa. So the Vifa is now flush and the driver looks a lot larger and balances out with the woofer a lot better.
David,
Of course you can use other small full rangers instead of the Vifa, but then you'll need to re-model the xo, much more difficult task than following Pano's and barryso's advice.
I would personally use a sub baffle but mount the driver from the back, and chamfer the front round hole with a router.
This will also somewhat help with time alignment which for me is important.
One such example below, courtesy of CooperH.
Of course you can use other small full rangers instead of the Vifa, but then you'll need to re-model the xo, much more difficult task than following Pano's and barryso's advice.
I would personally use a sub baffle but mount the driver from the back, and chamfer the front round hole with a router.
This will also somewhat help with time alignment which for me is important.
One such example below, courtesy of CooperH.
Attachments
Thank you Pano and barryso and Stanislav for the replies! First comment/observation - no one has suggested a newer/better/rounder fullrange (yet)!...
@Pano : I've noodled on your suggestion some and I guess I'm not looking at it quite correctly. So the TC9 takes a 3" hole and is 3.52" diagonal center screw hole to center screw hole, The mounting flange appear to be 3.15mm or 1/8" thick according to the spec sheet. I also believe the speaker outer most frame radius is 49mm, so that makes this a 98mm diameter speaker which is 3.86" So using your idea Pano, I could get some 1/4" plywood and then cut our a "donut" with the inner diameter is 3" and say 4" for the outer diameter?? Alright, if I surface mount the TC9 to this donut and then do a 1" x 1/4" deep rebate around the OB tweeter opening, this would then just fit in. However, this would still have the TC9 1/8" above the baffle so not really flush. I can't see how doing a rear mount to the 1/4" donut would work either, so I guess I'm not following.. sorry.
@barryso : The felt is interesting. So just cut the round 3" hole in the baffle and then cut a donut of felt say 3" inner and 6" outer and then just surface mount the TC9 and it will essentially crush the felt flat around the frame and the felt will mitigate any diffraction stuff? Hmmm.
@Stanislav : That's a different approach. If I were to do something like this I'd front flush mount the woofer. However, that is a very large "roundover" for the back mounted TC9 so not sure what it would take to do that much and essentially create a waveguide for the TC9, but doesn't that create a whole new set of potentially different frequency responses for the mids to highs and thus may require crossover adjustments, etc??
Here's a thought I've had after going thru the above: what if I do a circle rebate (1/8" deep) out to the effective diameter of the TC9 frame which I believe is 3.86", so say 3.9"+? Then the TC9 should drop right in flush, correct? Then, after mounting the TC9 fill in the four straight areas of the frame with wood filler. Sand, and then stain. The filler will likely not match/look the same as the BB surface ply, but would this not effectively create a custom rebate of the TC9?? Or is this not a good thing to do?
Cheers - David
@Pano : I've noodled on your suggestion some and I guess I'm not looking at it quite correctly. So the TC9 takes a 3" hole and is 3.52" diagonal center screw hole to center screw hole, The mounting flange appear to be 3.15mm or 1/8" thick according to the spec sheet. I also believe the speaker outer most frame radius is 49mm, so that makes this a 98mm diameter speaker which is 3.86" So using your idea Pano, I could get some 1/4" plywood and then cut our a "donut" with the inner diameter is 3" and say 4" for the outer diameter?? Alright, if I surface mount the TC9 to this donut and then do a 1" x 1/4" deep rebate around the OB tweeter opening, this would then just fit in. However, this would still have the TC9 1/8" above the baffle so not really flush. I can't see how doing a rear mount to the 1/4" donut would work either, so I guess I'm not following.. sorry.
@barryso : The felt is interesting. So just cut the round 3" hole in the baffle and then cut a donut of felt say 3" inner and 6" outer and then just surface mount the TC9 and it will essentially crush the felt flat around the frame and the felt will mitigate any diffraction stuff? Hmmm.
@Stanislav : That's a different approach. If I were to do something like this I'd front flush mount the woofer. However, that is a very large "roundover" for the back mounted TC9 so not sure what it would take to do that much and essentially create a waveguide for the TC9, but doesn't that create a whole new set of potentially different frequency responses for the mids to highs and thus may require crossover adjustments, etc??
Here's a thought I've had after going thru the above: what if I do a circle rebate (1/8" deep) out to the effective diameter of the TC9 frame which I believe is 3.86", so say 3.9"+? Then the TC9 should drop right in flush, correct? Then, after mounting the TC9 fill in the four straight areas of the frame with wood filler. Sand, and then stain. The filler will likely not match/look the same as the BB surface ply, but would this not effectively create a custom rebate of the TC9?? Or is this not a good thing to do?
Cheers - David
Hi David,
I just mounted the Vifa normally and cut the felt to be flush with it's edges. Pretty low tech. The felt can be removed at any time.
As for a Vifa replacement, as mentioned before, it would require redesigning the crossover. That was John's realm and he was REALLY good at it. He had several designs using other drivers but he had those versions for sale and didn't give away the crossover designs.
I just mounted the Vifa normally and cut the felt to be flush with it's edges. Pretty low tech. The felt can be removed at any time.
As for a Vifa replacement, as mentioned before, it would require redesigning the crossover. That was John's realm and he was REALLY good at it. He had several designs using other drivers but he had those versions for sale and didn't give away the crossover designs.
Hi David,
You could also consider making a router template.
Bill Schneider offers a good guide on how to make non-circular recesses.
https://www.afterness.com/audio/routing_truncated_recesses.html
If you have access to a 3D printer then it is easier to just print the template.
Close-up of the recess with template still in place
Hope that helps,
David
You could also consider making a router template.
Bill Schneider offers a good guide on how to make non-circular recesses.
https://www.afterness.com/audio/routing_truncated_recesses.html
If you have access to a 3D printer then it is easier to just print the template.
Close-up of the recess with template still in place
Hope that helps,
David
dgmartin - thank you for that link on making templates - pretty easy to follow. My wood guy said today he won't have the storage unit ready until September/October :-( I have a neighbor with a table saw...may be time to bring over a couple of beers!