Hi all, and thank you all for this forum.
First of all I'd like to tell a bit of why I'm here and what are our goals.
We've formed a non-profit society that has a goal of advancing the electronic music culture in our city. I joined to read and learn (and ask) since I want to build a sound system for the society (and for myself to learn).
I know a bit about woodworking, 3D modeling on solidworks and have access to a 3D printer and possibly a wood CNC machine.
I've been producing, recording and playing shows so I know the basics of music.
We would at the beginning host dancefloors of about 50-150 people, indoors and outdoors and I've still to decide which cabinets we'll go for.
Music we will play through the PA will be Psytrance, Techno, Tech House, Hard Techno, Drum & Bass, almost whatever you can imagine.
Priority will be clear sound, precise & pumping bass that can be felt and the possibility to build more to expand the soundsystem as we get things rolling.
Our transportation will in most cases be one european, regular sized van and 2-3 people in the crew (ourselves). So we would need something 2 people can haul.
Current idea is to build 2-4 15'' or 1-2 18'' subwoofers, depending on the cost of the drivers, wood is not that much of an issue.
Midrange and up would be point source, possibly a pair SynTripPs or something similar.
The 18'' option would be the Keystone since I'm assured that there is a massive wealth of knowledge and testing behind the design and read a lot of good about them.
For 15's, I've been looking at SS15 or THAM15, but I'm a bit worried about the low end extension in those cabs. SS15 so easy and cheap to build and very transportable. I
also read about the XoC1 optimised SS15 with the extension. Would that possibly be our answer? If we go with the SS15 would it fare good as a kick bin if we later build the Keystones?
Any other suggestions, I'm open for them. Best would be of course experience based but if someone can point me to a direction that would be helpful too.
My best regards
-Dougal
First of all I'd like to tell a bit of why I'm here and what are our goals.
We've formed a non-profit society that has a goal of advancing the electronic music culture in our city. I joined to read and learn (and ask) since I want to build a sound system for the society (and for myself to learn).
I know a bit about woodworking, 3D modeling on solidworks and have access to a 3D printer and possibly a wood CNC machine.
I've been producing, recording and playing shows so I know the basics of music.
We would at the beginning host dancefloors of about 50-150 people, indoors and outdoors and I've still to decide which cabinets we'll go for.
Music we will play through the PA will be Psytrance, Techno, Tech House, Hard Techno, Drum & Bass, almost whatever you can imagine.
Priority will be clear sound, precise & pumping bass that can be felt and the possibility to build more to expand the soundsystem as we get things rolling.
Our transportation will in most cases be one european, regular sized van and 2-3 people in the crew (ourselves). So we would need something 2 people can haul.
Current idea is to build 2-4 15'' or 1-2 18'' subwoofers, depending on the cost of the drivers, wood is not that much of an issue.
Midrange and up would be point source, possibly a pair SynTripPs or something similar.
The 18'' option would be the Keystone since I'm assured that there is a massive wealth of knowledge and testing behind the design and read a lot of good about them.
For 15's, I've been looking at SS15 or THAM15, but I'm a bit worried about the low end extension in those cabs. SS15 so easy and cheap to build and very transportable. I
also read about the XoC1 optimised SS15 with the extension. Would that possibly be our answer? If we go with the SS15 would it fare good as a kick bin if we later build the Keystones?
Any other suggestions, I'm open for them. Best would be of course experience based but if someone can point me to a direction that would be helpful too.
My best regards
-Dougal
Some thoughts for you, in no particular order:
- What will you do for amplifiers and processing? At the budget-end, the Behringer NX series amps are pretty good. A worthwhile step-up in quality are the Powersoft T-series amps.
- Do you own a measurement mic? If not, it should be one of your first purchases. It will help to make sure the crossovers etc are aligned properly.
- With the music you're playing, it might be worthwhile to aim for <40Hz extension. IIRC the THAM15 and SS15 start to drop off quickly at approx 50Hz, and you will notice the lack of low notes.
- A 3-way system should be fine for the size of crowds you'll be playing for. A 4-way system is much more difficult to set up well.
Chris
- What will you do for amplifiers and processing? At the budget-end, the Behringer NX series amps are pretty good. A worthwhile step-up in quality are the Powersoft T-series amps.
- Do you own a measurement mic? If not, it should be one of your first purchases. It will help to make sure the crossovers etc are aligned properly.
- With the music you're playing, it might be worthwhile to aim for <40Hz extension. IIRC the THAM15 and SS15 start to drop off quickly at approx 50Hz, and you will notice the lack of low notes.
- A 3-way system should be fine for the size of crowds you'll be playing for. A 4-way system is much more difficult to set up well.
Chris
Thank you for your reply.
Thanks also for the recommendation on the amplifier, those behringers surely seem to be pretty good on price/quality/power ratio.
Also Ive been looking at t.amp proline 3000 class AB amp. It gives out nice power at reasonable price even new.
Measurement microphone will be ordered together with the first set of drivers! I was recommended the UMIK-1 which seems like a pretty solid choice.
For some reason, I’ve skipped the TH 18 which would actually be a pretty good compromise between weight, size and output bandwith since the mobility is required. It seems like the best option at the moment.
Good point on the set up and since the venues are changing, its even more important its easy to set up. Just need to make sure there is a smart crossover point!
Thanks also for the recommendation on the amplifier, those behringers surely seem to be pretty good on price/quality/power ratio.
Also Ive been looking at t.amp proline 3000 class AB amp. It gives out nice power at reasonable price even new.
- 2 x 1200 W @ 8 Ohm
- 2 x 1700 W @ 4 Ohm
- 2 x 1800 W @ 2 Ohm
Measurement microphone will be ordered together with the first set of drivers! I was recommended the UMIK-1 which seems like a pretty solid choice.
For some reason, I’ve skipped the TH 18 which would actually be a pretty good compromise between weight, size and output bandwith since the mobility is required. It seems like the best option at the moment.
Good point on the set up and since the venues are changing, its even more important its easy to set up. Just need to make sure there is a smart crossover point!
A further disadvantage of class AB amps will be the power draw. They can approach about 50% efficiency, while class D hits around 90%, both at full-power. The class AB amp will require a little under 2x the power from the mains supply, which becomes non-trivial as we head towards higher power amplifiers.
UMIK is okay, but doesn't allow impedance measurement. If you just want to build existing designs and align them with an active crossover, then UMIK (or similar) will be fine. For passive crossover design etc, a Motu M4 + XLR measurement mic is a better option. The M4 has a pair of fixed line-level inputs which are perfect for impedance measurement, as well as a pair of mic inputs.
Chris
UMIK is okay, but doesn't allow impedance measurement. If you just want to build existing designs and align them with an active crossover, then UMIK (or similar) will be fine. For passive crossover design etc, a Motu M4 + XLR measurement mic is a better option. The M4 has a pair of fixed line-level inputs which are perfect for impedance measurement, as well as a pair of mic inputs.
Chris
Hi MrKlinky.
Been away for few weeks, now back on this.
Our budget is somewhere around 3000-4000 euros!
That should include the drivers, amplifiers, dsp and wood. Current plan revolves around 3500e.
It includes materials for 2 SynTripPs 2 keystones,
so:
t.racks DSP206 for DSP
Behringer NX6000 for sub
T-amp E1200 for mid
T-ampE800 for hi
Rack for these^
2x B&C 18tbw100-4 sub
4x B&C 10Cl51 mid
2x B&C DE90TN hi
18mm & 12mm baltic birch and paint as needed, readily available.
Biggest issue right now is the relative complexity of the SynTripP build and a dozen of plans differentiating from each other in small details. Art's plans are there of course, but theyre made by him and for him and I'm not proficient enough to visualize them in my mind.
I have 3d-modeled them as far as I think I am on the track about the measures to help me with it Keystone is easy to build so no worries on that.
Been away for few weeks, now back on this.
Our budget is somewhere around 3000-4000 euros!
That should include the drivers, amplifiers, dsp and wood. Current plan revolves around 3500e.
It includes materials for 2 SynTripPs 2 keystones,
so:
t.racks DSP206 for DSP
Behringer NX6000 for sub
T-amp E1200 for mid
T-ampE800 for hi
Rack for these^
2x B&C 18tbw100-4 sub
4x B&C 10Cl51 mid
2x B&C DE90TN hi
18mm & 12mm baltic birch and paint as needed, readily available.
Biggest issue right now is the relative complexity of the SynTripP build and a dozen of plans differentiating from each other in small details. Art's plans are there of course, but theyre made by him and for him and I'm not proficient enough to visualize them in my mind.
I have 3d-modeled them as far as I think I am on the track about the measures to help me with it Keystone is easy to build so no worries on that.
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Sounds good! A compact powerhouse.
Maybe you already plan on doing it but I recommend you do as much of the cutting and routing as possible in a CNC machine! It will save you 50%+ build time and you'll have better accuracy than what is possible by hand Speaking out of recent experience..
Maybe you already plan on doing it but I recommend you do as much of the cutting and routing as possible in a CNC machine! It will save you 50%+ build time and you'll have better accuracy than what is possible by hand
Speaking out of recent experience.. Thanks!
Yeah we want a setup that can fit in a wagon and be able to throw a decent party with it!
Keystone should be pretty easy to cut even with a table saw, but yeah if we ,manage to find a reasonably priced CNC we will cut all with it for sure!
SynTripP will definitely be CNC cut, not even going to try without
Yeah we want a setup that can fit in a wagon and be able to throw a decent party with it!
Keystone should be pretty easy to cut even with a table saw, but yeah if we ,manage to find a reasonably priced CNC we will cut all with it for sure!
SynTripP will definitely be CNC cut, not even going to try without
I wont, but our skill-, time- and tool constraints make CNC really worthy. I truly appreciate every woodworker who knows their stuff, I only know the basics.
BTW, whats your setup like?Sounds good! A compact powerhouse.
Maybe you already plan on doing it but I recommend you do as much of the cutting and routing as possible in a CNC machine! It will save you 50%+ build time and you'll have better accuracy than what is possible by hand
And what are you building rn?
Looking forward on visiting the west coast and checking out your party!
Right now I'm building two more Rhino mk3 scoops loaded with RCF LF18G401.
Soon we'll have a setup consisting of:
4x Rhino mk3 18" scoops
2x Altec 816
2x unknown name 15" mids
2x Thomann 10"
2x Multicell horns with Beyma Cp800Ti 2"
2x RCF 1" tweeters + horns
2x Behringer NX 6000D
2x Crown Micro tec 1200
Don't remember the name of the new 8 channel DSP
Standard 2 channel 31 band Graphic EQ
I'd like to get on e or two smaller amps for the tweeters to get everything tuned properly.
A bit of a Frankenstein system but it works really well!
Soon we'll have a setup consisting of:
4x Rhino mk3 18" scoops
2x Altec 816
2x unknown name 15" mids
2x Thomann 10"
2x Multicell horns with Beyma Cp800Ti 2"
2x RCF 1" tweeters + horns
2x Behringer NX 6000D
2x Crown Micro tec 1200
Don't remember the name of the new 8 channel DSP
Standard 2 channel 31 band Graphic EQ
I'd like to get on e or two smaller amps for the tweeters to get everything tuned properly.
A bit of a Frankenstein system but it works really well!
Nice! Good luck with your build!
I hope I'll get mine done before this summer. We have a small PA which we can lend for free but its lacking a bit.
Just need to make sure I get the SynTripP plans right
Of course there are another options but I really like the look and the idea its all designed by Art so they should play well together.
I hope I'll get mine done before this summer. We have a small PA which we can lend for free but its lacking a bit.
Just need to make sure I get the SynTripP plans right
Of course there are another options but I really like the look and the idea its all designed by Art so they should play well together.