I'm looking for a better processor for my unconventional active 4 way speaker project. I am currently using the Peavey 48VSX, which has the main features I'm looking for, but I am finding it is fairly noisy for a home environment. And it would help to have a few more inputs, whether by having a single unit with more inputs, or two units that can be configured together.
The noise I'm experience is signal noise, and also the fan is very loud. I've actually unplugged the fan, since none of the components appear to need active cooling.
My wish list is:
Rack mount--1RU ideally
4-6 Balanced inputs (XLR?)
8 Balanced outputs (XLR?)
Low noise
10+ parametric EQs per channel (Including high pass, low pass, shelf, etc)
Matrix programming, delays, etc
Expandable (I might go multi-channel at some point)
My budget is going to be up to ~$1500. Hopefully less, but I don't expect to get something for nothing.
The noise I'm experience is signal noise, and also the fan is very loud. I've actually unplugged the fan, since none of the components appear to need active cooling.
My wish list is:
Rack mount--1RU ideally
4-6 Balanced inputs (XLR?)
8 Balanced outputs (XLR?)
Low noise
10+ parametric EQs per channel (Including high pass, low pass, shelf, etc)
Matrix programming, delays, etc
Expandable (I might go multi-channel at some point)
My budget is going to be up to ~$1500. Hopefully less, but I don't expect to get something for nothing.
Actually, I might have found it. MiniDSP Flex HTx. 8x8 channels (balanced), 1 RU, presumably low noise, plenty of EQs, within budget...
They snuck this one past me! Has anyone seen it or used it yet? I know it isn't pro audio, but it is roughly the same feature set in a home theater package.
And if there is a compelling pro audio options, I'm still interested.
They snuck this one past me! Has anyone seen it or used it yet? I know it isn't pro audio, but it is roughly the same feature set in a home theater package.
And if there is a compelling pro audio options, I'm still interested.
I think you will get about the same noise as with the 48VX if you use it in the same way. With digital devices the right levels are a problem. The higher the input signal to the DSP is, the better the noise and sound quality. You can use a simple, passive attenuator between DSP and amplifier. Maybe 3 settings, to make better use of the dynamic range the DSP has. Another hardware should not help with that problem, as the Peavy is 96Hz.
I think I understand what you mean. It makes sense, but I haven't thought of it like that before.
Right now my DAC is set to -10dB, so if I understand correctly, you would suggest I set the DAC to 0, and add a -10dB attenuator after the processor? Then I'd have the same listening volume, but the noise level would be pushed down 10dB?
By attenuator, I assume you mean an L-pad? I have a couple variable L-pads from testing, so this should be easy enough to test.
You have a dynamic range. I try to explain it extremely simple. You may have 10 Volt your digital device can handle, but only feed it with a maximum of 1 Volt. So in the end you only have 10% of the maximum resolution, but 10 times the noise. If you reduce the level after the DSP, in the analog domain, you have to increase the analog input to the DSP and use more of it's resolution while pushing down noise.
You can do that with the input attenuator of the amp as well, which needs no new hardware, just some adjusting (can be time consuming with 8 channels). Now, if you listen at very different SPL, this may be uncomfortable, so a stepped attenuator = L-pad between DSP and amp for maybe low, medium and loud, could be a simple analog sollution, even for many channels.
Of course you can do it digital as well, but this may be more complicated.
These level problems are often the cause for people blaming pro gear to generate a lot of´hiss from the tweeter.
I don't know your Peavy DSP, but from it's data is it not worse than the miniDSP. Personaly I don't like products from the miniDSP brand.
You can do that with the input attenuator of the amp as well, which needs no new hardware, just some adjusting (can be time consuming with 8 channels). Now, if you listen at very different SPL, this may be uncomfortable, so a stepped attenuator = L-pad between DSP and amp for maybe low, medium and loud, could be a simple analog sollution, even for many channels.
Of course you can do it digital as well, but this may be more complicated.
These level problems are often the cause for people blaming pro gear to generate a lot of´hiss from the tweeter.
I don't know your Peavy DSP, but from it's data is it not worse than the miniDSP. Personaly I don't like products from the miniDSP brand.
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If you're adventurous, this is relatively inexpensive...
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805718002872.html?
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805718002872.html?
Hi agree with turbowatch, very probably a gain staging issue. Drive your unit digital and use this as main volume control between dsp and amp:
https://spl.audio/en/spl-produkt/volume-8/
For the fan, do you have a way to probe for temp inside the Peavey? If yes then try a low noise pc fan ( noctua) but be sure in 1u unit there won't be miracle as small fans= high rpm=noise.
https://spl.audio/en/spl-produkt/volume-8/
For the fan, do you have a way to probe for temp inside the Peavey? If yes then try a low noise pc fan ( noctua) but be sure in 1u unit there won't be miracle as small fans= high rpm=noise.
I had taken the cover off of the chassis to encourage air flow, but for troubleshooting I put it back on to make sure the unit is properly shielded. But the only component that gets warm is a mosfet on the power supply, which has a tiny heat sink. Otherwise it does not appear to require any cooling. And I meant to replace the fan, but forgot about it after I unpluged it.
I like the 8 channel volume knob. But for me it is almost as expensive as a better DSP processor!
I went from a DCX2496 to a camilla/pi4 - motu ultralite setup. The DCX had a couple issues resolved by the Motu. The DCX used "professional" signal levels, so output was too high for my amps. I added a -10/-20/-30 db attenuator after the DCX. The Motu is quieter than the DCX by quite a bit, so even though I still have the attenuator in, I'm thinking about taking it out, as the minimum -10db attenuation is now a problem. The Motu max signal is maybe 6db lower than the DCX was. The Motu is 8 in 10 out analog plus some digital option so plenty of channels. The DCX has the advantage of being able to interact with the front panel to make changes which is nice, but camilla is more flexible and I am currently using a FIR filter for my 4-ways, still around 18db slopes using the FIR though. I found really steep brick wall FIR filters somehow did not sound right. May have done something wrong. I think some of the DAC's these days like the ones in the Motu get to the level(better than 110db SNR) where a volume control after the DAC is no longer required to get very good performance.
I would prefer a switch to an variable l-pad. More precise and less noise, a fraction of the cost. It is pretty easy to solder some 1% metal film resistors to a 8x3 switch. Maybe 2 levels may be enough, anyway. You may still have an old com-port switch from before USB times. The switches inside are multi contact and can be used for this task.
For a quick, no cost improvement, just turn up the level before the DSP and reduce it at the output in the DSP software, this may work as well.
For buying a new DSP: If you keep the levels as they are, nothing will improve, since your DSP is 96khz. Only if it was 48kHz this would change something.
Pro audio components are not worse than HIFI stuff, in most cases even better. Because of high numbers (any PA system has a DSP today!) they are about 1/4 of HIFI prices. Don't expect to get better quality for your money!
For a quick, no cost improvement, just turn up the level before the DSP and reduce it at the output in the DSP software, this may work as well.
For buying a new DSP: If you keep the levels as they are, nothing will improve, since your DSP is 96khz. Only if it was 48kHz this would change something.
Pro audio components are not worse than HIFI stuff, in most cases even better. Because of high numbers (any PA system has a DSP today!) they are about 1/4 of HIFI prices. Don't expect to get better quality for your money!
You are talking about sampling rate, which has nothing to do with noise.
You are not wrong about the gain staging, but over on Audio Science Review, we had a discussion about the system noise, and from their specs it is obvious that yes, the Peavey is very noisy.
It is good practice in HIFI circles to bash any PA equipment. Even as the times of hissing, humming low quality are long over. Many individuals still promote single experience from 20 years ago as an everlasting truth. So please take some oppinions with a grain of salt.
Today studio and PA gear is ofthen higher quality than compareable HIFI stuff. The competition is much tougher and the people that buy this stuff are better informed, have more knowledge about sound quality and tend to be more objective than the usual HIFI enthusiast sitting in his living room. Which makes any seller of Voodoo impregnated, expensive Hifi stuff, very unhappy.
I don't think Peavy products are lower quality than average, but I don't have personal experience with your DSP.
Anway, experimenting with levels should come before buying something similar from another brand.
Maybe draw yourself a flow diagram, at what position in the chain you can adjust levels and then optimize. A while ago I had a guy with your problem. He had not realized there was another page in the set-up program where he could adjust levels. Result: no more noise.
About the 48/96kHz sampling rate. It has an audible impact if you use too low analog levels, as the resolution is halfed with 48kHz. Yours is 96kHz, so this problem is less important.
Even if you consider the Peavy to be noisy, something I can not see in the data sheet, you should be able to get it down to very low noise levels. You have to find the right settings for the whole chain. With compression drivers some noise may be audible with your ear a foot away, that is normal.
Today studio and PA gear is ofthen higher quality than compareable HIFI stuff. The competition is much tougher and the people that buy this stuff are better informed, have more knowledge about sound quality and tend to be more objective than the usual HIFI enthusiast sitting in his living room. Which makes any seller of Voodoo impregnated, expensive Hifi stuff, very unhappy.
I don't think Peavy products are lower quality than average, but I don't have personal experience with your DSP.
Anway, experimenting with levels should come before buying something similar from another brand.
Maybe draw yourself a flow diagram, at what position in the chain you can adjust levels and then optimize. A while ago I had a guy with your problem. He had not realized there was another page in the set-up program where he could adjust levels. Result: no more noise.
About the 48/96kHz sampling rate. It has an audible impact if you use too low analog levels, as the resolution is halfed with 48kHz. Yours is 96kHz, so this problem is less important.
Even if you consider the Peavy to be noisy, something I can not see in the data sheet, you should be able to get it down to very low noise levels. You have to find the right settings for the whole chain. With compression drivers some noise may be audible with your ear a foot away, that is normal.
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I want to use PA equipment as much as possible in my system! I posted my question in the pro audio side of the forum for a reason! My speakers consist of B&C 12fhx76 coaxials, Lab 12 woofers, and Dayton subwoofers (a small concession). And instead of hifi speaker terminals, I have SpeakOn. Processor is pro audio, I have a pro audio line mixer....everything is rack mount, XLR interconnects.
The explanation of why it is noisy is by a helpful member over at Audio Science Review: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/minidsp-flex-htx.49512/post-1906197
He said about the Peavey, "Unfortunately, -87 dBu unweighted is 35 uV which is pretty noisy. If they didn't give you noise, you could also calculate from dynamic range. They report 107 dB DR and a maximum output level of +20 dBU (7.75 V), residual noise = 7.75 x 10^(-107/20) x 10^6 = 35 uV."
By comparison, the MiniDSP calculates to 2.3µV.
My amplifier has 29dB gain, and the amp's residual noise is 80µV....So the total system noise at the amplifier terminals, with the peavey, is ~1,000uV. My system, if I use the MIniDSP, would drop to ~115µV....which is still higher than he recommends.
If I increase the gain at the processor by +15dB, and attenuate it by 15dB, it would still be a lot noisier than the MiniDSP.
Other advantages-With the minidsp, I replace 3 devices and a web of interconnects for a single device. It is also easier to do the low frequency integration sub management that my design is focused on. It also has a lot less noise without modification. It has a bunch of modern feature that my DAC does not have.
I'm not saying the Peavey is "bad", but it is a bargain level component. It was the only option at the time, and it did what I needed. But there are clear advantages for upgrading.
I was going to be pessimistic and say it is probably the same as the Peavey. But then I looked at the manual.
I can say with a high degree of confidence that yes, this is exactly the same as the Peavey. The PC user interface is identical! They did switch it up by moving the LCD display panel to the other side....but then I saw that Peavey has an updated version, and the LCD is moved on the new one also. If the internals are updated, it might be better. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
And I can't help but notice that the manuals from the t-tracks and the Peavey look like they were made on the same template!
I guess welcome to the new Amazon Economy? You can buy any brand you want, but you will get the same product regardless of which brand you choose...because they are all made by the same factory in China...
I did purchase the MiniDSP HTx. I just finished replacing the XLR plugs on my cables with TRS, and now the hissing is almost inaudible with my ear against the horn.
An added bonus is that now I can do all my measurements and programming through my mac mini that I use as an HTPC. The Peavey required me to use my PC for measurements.
It does seem odd that they did not include PEQ or delays on the inputs. I'm not sure what I think about that. I don't really need it, but I would use it if I had it. Maybe they'll add it in a future upgrade?
An added bonus is that now I can do all my measurements and programming through my mac mini that I use as an HTPC. The Peavey required me to use my PC for measurements.
It does seem odd that they did not include PEQ or delays on the inputs. I'm not sure what I think about that. I don't really need it, but I would use it if I had it. Maybe they'll add it in a future upgrade?