Hi Guys. Apologies If this in the wrong section I'm new here đź‘‹
I run a party function band for weddings and corporate events. It's a 5 piece band & consists of Drums, bass guitar, keys, electric guitar and a lead vocal (keys and drums do backing vocals) we do events of around 250 - 350 people. Would be great if there were speakers that could do 250 -500 people in the price range but not expecting miracles.
I recently bought the Yamaha DBR 15 tops and after two weddings and two separate sound engineers telling me they are not loud enough. I caved and sold them.
So now I am after some new speakers that are louder. I've seen the Alto TS415's at about ÂŁ380 per speaker and claiming 2000 watts. Are these any good? Or are there better speakers available for the money. I say right now I have a budget of ÂŁ5/600 PER speaker to play with.
We don't currently use a sub, but will be looking to add one at some point ( no idea when ) so need some that can cater to the events we do for now with just tops.
I've tried to look into RMS and watts and some speakers are louder with less power ect but it's just too techy for me! Lol
All advice appreciated
Thanks
I run a party function band for weddings and corporate events. It's a 5 piece band & consists of Drums, bass guitar, keys, electric guitar and a lead vocal (keys and drums do backing vocals) we do events of around 250 - 350 people. Would be great if there were speakers that could do 250 -500 people in the price range but not expecting miracles.
I recently bought the Yamaha DBR 15 tops and after two weddings and two separate sound engineers telling me they are not loud enough. I caved and sold them.
So now I am after some new speakers that are louder. I've seen the Alto TS415's at about ÂŁ380 per speaker and claiming 2000 watts. Are these any good? Or are there better speakers available for the money. I say right now I have a budget of ÂŁ5/600 PER speaker to play with.
We don't currently use a sub, but will be looking to add one at some point ( no idea when ) so need some that can cater to the events we do for now with just tops.
I've tried to look into RMS and watts and some speakers are louder with less power ect but it's just too techy for me! Lol
All advice appreciated
Thanks
Oh well, those, like the Alto, are powered ( active) speakers.
I'm not into PA or anything related, there are PRO guys around here much better informed, but I'll tell you this :
those are powered speakers!
If you want to make Diy ( I guess that it's not your intent) it's better to look at passive speakers. Just the bare drivers, some components for the crossover network and the enclosure ( for the cone speakers, such woofer and midrange).
For me, it's better to keep the electronics (amplifiers) separated from the speakers.
Much better, infinitely better
Hey picowallspeaker.
Thanks for the response mate. Yea I definitely don't want to build one myself! Lol wouldn't have a clue where to even start.
The band utilise a rack unit with wireless mixer, wireless in ears and and drawer for mics ect, so currently have no space to mount an additional amplifier for passive speakers. There's also the cost for me of having to purchase speakers and then an additional good quality amplifier which can be expensive by the looks of it ( need good gear for the type of gigs we are doing.. So I think Active is the way to go for us for an easy set up.
Thanks for the response mate. Yea I definitely don't want to build one myself! Lol wouldn't have a clue where to even start.
The band utilise a rack unit with wireless mixer, wireless in ears and and drawer for mics ect, so currently have no space to mount an additional amplifier for passive speakers. There's also the cost for me of having to purchase speakers and then an additional good quality amplifier which can be expensive by the looks of it ( need good gear for the type of gigs we are doing.. So I think Active is the way to go for us for an easy set up.
well i mentioned the DBR12's as they're less spendy then your original choice of the DBR15's not that the price difference offsets the increase in numbers but 12's versus 15's in the mid to me means better vocal or upper midrange.
and yes sub's are essential nothing else will promotes a party atmosphere like good thumping bass!
and yes sub's are essential nothing else will promotes a party atmosphere like good thumping bass!
Wattage tells you nothing without knowing the sensitivity of the speakers. Although specs are always to be taken with a pinch of salt unless the conditions under which they have been measured are fully specified, which often they are not, you'll get a better idea comparing maximum SPL @ 1m. In this case we're talking 132 dB for the Yamaha (they don't specify so I assume that's peak) vs 135 for the Alto. That's a very small difference in practical terms.
Also, the Yamaha's 132 should be plenty for the small venues you're talking about, I'm surprised they aren't loud enough. Whatever you buy, if they're still not loud enough, have someone who knows this stuff look into how they are driven, maybe the mixer isn't producing enough output to drive the speakers to full power, either because it's faulty or isn't set up correctly. Nominal output levels and input sensitivities in pro equipment are pretty much standard and there's usually plenty of headroom, so a simple mismatch is unlikely.
Also, the Yamaha's 132 should be plenty for the small venues you're talking about, I'm surprised they aren't loud enough. Whatever you buy, if they're still not loud enough, have someone who knows this stuff look into how they are driven, maybe the mixer isn't producing enough output to drive the speakers to full power, either because it's faulty or isn't set up correctly. Nominal output levels and input sensitivities in pro equipment are pretty much standard and there's usually plenty of headroom, so a simple mismatch is unlikely.
Hey Cabirio.
Please don't tell me it's just my mixer not being set up properly 🤦 lol We run a Sound craft UI16 mixer. I bought it brand new and it's only done 3/4 gigs so shouldn't be faulty. Perhaps the engineer wasn't as good as we thought? Are there things to look out for on the mixer? Like certain settings that should be in place to allow the speakers to go to full.
Please don't tell me it's just my mixer not being set up properly 🤦 lol We run a Sound craft UI16 mixer. I bought it brand new and it's only done 3/4 gigs so shouldn't be faulty. Perhaps the engineer wasn't as good as we thought? Are there things to look out for on the mixer? Like certain settings that should be in place to allow the speakers to go to full.
nice mixer 4 sure!
gain staging is important and proper structure does affect output.
if input gain is starved no amount of raising the master will make up for it(and that's not even always possible as feedback is always at bay)...but we are still looking at having enough speaker power for the crowd/venue size,no?
gain staging is important and proper structure does affect output.
if input gain is starved no amount of raising the master will make up for it(and that's not even always possible as feedback is always at bay)...but we are still looking at having enough speaker power for the crowd/venue size,no?
I'm just saying it's a possibility that personally I would try rule out before assuming it's the speakers. As turk says above, proper gain staging is important, each gain knob and fader from microphone to speaker affects the overall level you get. Also, you may be unlucky and buy a brand new piece of equipment that has some problem, it happens...
Another issue is that "loud enough" is completely subjective, of course, and maybe what those sound engineers find too quiet would be plenty for me and, more importantly, for the audience... Have you had comments from other people complaining about this? I know it's not the same when a place is full, but have you or other band members stepped out into the venue during sound check to see what it sounds like? Again, an SPL @ 1m of 132-135 dB is loud enough to cause permanent hearing damage if you stand close to the speaker even for a short time, so...
Well that is good because you will likely need to add some zeros to the budget to get anywhewre close to owning a PA system capable of covering events that size with appropriate sound quality and SPL. Or you will need a bigger transport vehicle. Let me explain. To do this with modern powered speakers you will have to move up to the very top of the Prosumer market or maybe even step into Pro market level boxes, that means speakers like the Yamaha DZR or RCF TT which cost serious money, and you will need 4 of them.. two tops and 2 subs minimum.
The other way to do this is to buy old passive touring grade boxes like the old EAW KF series and matching rack amplifiers and processors, systems like this show up on local classifieds from time to time as a complete turn key setup and fairly cheap, but that is because everything is quite large and heavy.. there are no one person lifts so not too many people are interested.
There are no $500 PA speakers capable of doing anything but damaging your reputation, if you don't have the budget to get the equipment you need right now then start putting money aside until you do and hire a provider in the mean time. This is a common topic on other forums more oriented towards live performances, there are many bands that have already been down the road you are just starting, they often start with entry level speakers and upgrade those 2 or 3 times before getting something they are truely happy with, so my advice here is just attempting to steer you away from making these same mistakes which end up costing more money in the long run.
sometimes it's not the gear's fault, often gain is lost due to bad/improper interconnects.
being in the UK some Hill M3's and a couple of W bass bins ought to do it...i just hope the band will help you move them...
Conanski's right don't fall into the we'll upgrade later syndrome as that will potentially cost more in the long run.
is the band involved fiscally in this? or is it down to you to burden the production costs?
Conanski's right don't fall into the we'll upgrade later syndrome as that will potentially cost more in the long run.
is the band involved fiscally in this? or is it down to you to burden the production costs?
Your only hope is old EFFICIENT passive subs. Ask the experts if two 10 inch tops each side will be enough for portability and price reasons. Drums and bass are not for fullrange speakers unless very small indoor venue. Make a new thread asking buying advice for second hand subs that can cover your needs. Remember to state of you need it to play up outdoors events also. That is much more demanding, and I suggest you hire fronts for such cases.
So. Find your subs and amplification for them and go from there.
Cheers
So. Find your subs and amplification for them and go from there.
Cheers
Question:
Are you looking for concert levels (feel the bass) at the back of the audience, or is it an "audible at the back, dancefloor for 50 people" situation?
The requirements for the two are very different:
For the former, a pair of good 12" 2-way tops over a pair of 2x18" subwoofers are the sort of thing to be looking at.
For the latter, 10" mains over 12" subs would manage it if they're decent.
The Yamaha DBR15s may or may not have been enough. I've got away with putting a full band through my main speakers, which are 2x10"+HF per side. However, the 10"s are Faital Pro 10FH520 drivers, which are 600w RMS each, and have enough excursion to keep up with a cheap 15" driver (having dismantled a Yamaha DBR10, I can assure you - they're using very cheap drivers). Two per side is enough for a bit of dancefloor feel in smaller venues, but I'd still rather use subwoofers to really get that bottom-end grunt.
So, recommending a new PA system depends on the venue, size of the audience, and the sort of experience you're looking to provide. It might well be worth hiring someone in for a couple of shows, perhaps a couple of different providers, so you can see what people tend to use and what works for you.
Chris